Pro-life and Democrat

[Ktoyou]

Those politicians are all pro-abortion.

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Right. They wish to minimize those who will end up on welfare. Only moral ( religious) persons think other wise, as few as they are today.

 

[ok doser]

an epic attempt by quip to squirm his way out of the corner he'd painted himself into:

my discussion with quip is an attempt to understand the reasoning behind

1. allowing a woman the choice to kill her child before he is born
and
2. denying a woman the choice to kill her child after he is born

(one reason) - - Bodily autonomy.

which logically, rationally and factually exists before and after delivery

Sure. Bodily autonomy exist for everyone. The specifics of pregnancy are germane to the issue of abortion.

In what way do “the specifics of pregnancy” influence bodily autonomy of the mother?
Do you allow the mother her bodily autonomy (which I understand to mean the right to do with her body as she wishes) after delivery or not?

You're going in circles...that's been answered.

Can you summarize or give a link?

Not doing your leg work for you sorry. Scroll, go back a few pages.

Ok, took a look – it’s all over the place.
Looks like my last point was this (paraphrased):
The new mother’s autonomy is more severely impacted by your insistence that she care for the newborn than it is by her preborn child

Therefore, “bodily autonomy” is not a valid rationale for allowing a woman the choice to kill her child before he is born and denying a woman the choice to kill her child after he is born

Well, no. No more "severely impacted" than yours or mine.

You’re not insisting that you or I care for her newborn child. You are insisting that the mother care for the newborn child, instead of allowing her the choice that you had granted her moments before

More/less.
I can't insist she cares anymore than I can insist you do.

We determined in #1 that:

Are you saying that the mother of the newborn does have the moral responsibility to care for the infant? yes So perhaps "insist" was a poor choice of words. You are claiming that the mother has a moral responsibility to care for the newborn child, instead of allowing her the choice that you had granted her moments before Though it's the law and my opinion that she has a moral duty to the child... even if that requires a new caregiver/environment. I'm not interested in the law, and in the scenario we've been discussing there's been no mention of new caregivers or environment And so, we return to: The new mother’s autonomy is more severely impacted by your insistence that she care for the newborn than it is by her preborn child Therefore, "bodily autonomy" is not a valid rationale for allowing a woman the choice to kill her child before he is born and denying a woman the choice to kill her child after he is born

 

[ok doser]

And the natural consequence of "bodily autonomy"

Mom left infant who drowned in tub for some 'me time,' warrant says KNOXVILLE, Tenn. — A Tennessee infant left in a bathtub without supervision has died and his mother is facing an abuse charge after telling authorities she left the child to have some “me time." The boy, who was found unresponsive in the tub Wednesday night, died Friday morning, East Tennessee Children's Hospital spokeswoman Erica Estep told news outlets. The boy's mother, Lindsee Leonardo, 32, was charged Thursday with aggravated child abuse, the Knox County Sheriff's Office said. Leonardo told police she left Aiden Leonardo and a 1-year-old sibling in the tub so she could have some “me time,” an arrest warrant said. She told police she was away for about 10 minutes during which she smoked a cigarette and listened to music, the warrant states. When Leonardo returned, she told police the infant was floating on his back, not breathing and she called 911. The toddler wasn't injured. Sheriff's spokeswoman Kimberly Glenn says additional charges are expected. It wasn't immediately clear whether Leonardo has an attorney. https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...BYPZCX?ocid=sf

 

[ok doser]

When pregnant, she would have had no difficulty exercising her bodily autonomy and taking 10 minutes to smoke a cigarette and listen to music

 

[quip]

When pregnant, she would have had no difficulty exercising her bodily autonomy and taking 10 minutes to smoke a cigarette and listen to music

You're beating the same dead horse -- again.
Bodily autonomy, as I'm referring to it, has to do with the fetus/womb relationship. Your extraneous counter-point could involve anyone....her husband, nanny/baby-sitter or next door neighbor. Start another thread if you deem this important...it's just not relevant to abortion.

 

[ok doser]

Bodily autonomy, as I'm referring to it ...

Sorry quip, you lose the argument if you have to redefine "bodily autonomy" to mean "bodily autonomy in a narrowly defined context"

 

[quip]

Sorry quip, you lose the argument if you have to redefine "bodily autonomy" to mean "bodily autonomy in a narrowly defined context"

Oh...ok. :cigar:

 

[jgarden]

International studies have already demonstrated that even if Roe v Wade was revoked today, it would have a negligible impact on the rates of abortion!

American society would also be forced to face the prospect of incarcerating 100 000's of women aged 15-44 for defying the law and seeking illegal abortions!

There are no "quick fixes" or easy answers, but if Americans were truly serious about eliminating abortions, it would require a fundamental shift in this nation's priorities and the major investment in the welfare of children - rather than the "lip service" which is currently the case!

 

[Right Divider]

International studies have already demonstrated that even if Roe v Wade was revoked today, it would have a negligible impact on the rates of abortion!

American society would also be forced to face the prospect of incarcerating 100 000's of women aged 15-44 for defying the law and seeking illegal abortions!

There are no "quick fixes" or easy answers, but if Americans were truly serious about eliminating abortions, it would require a fundamental shift in this nation's priorities and the major investment in the welfare of children - rather than the "lip service" which is currently the case!

Murdering an unborn child is no solution to anything. It's just plain evil.

 

[ok doser]

Murdering an unborn child is no solution to anything. It's just plain evil.

it's no different from murdering a child after birth - those who argue "bodily autonomy" have yet to show why the location of the child changes the argument

 

[jgarden]

Murdering an unborn child is no solution to anything. It's just plain evil.

All this Pro-Life rhetoric and platitudes doesn't change the fact that regardless of the law, ts the mother who will ultimately decide as to whether she wants to continue with a full tern pregnancy!

Christian conservatives remain loyal to this President largely in the hope that some day the Supreme Court will repeal Roe v Wade - even if that scenario were to happen today, it still doesn't address the underlying social and economic circumstances that have and will continue to contribute to a woman's decision to abort!

 

[ok doser]

... ts the mother who will ultimately decide as to whether she wants to continue with a full tern pregnancy ...

... or murder her child

 

[quip]

... or murder her child

The nanny did it! :angrymob:

 

[Right Divider]

All this Pro-Life rhetoric and platitudes doesn't change the fact that regardless of the law, ts the mother who will ultimately decide as to whether she wants to continue with a full tern pregnancy!

You call supporting life and opposing murder to be "Pro-Life rhetoric and platitudes"? Aren't you special?

Christian conservatives remain loyal to this President largely in the hope that some day the Supreme Court will repeal Roe v Wade - even if that scenario were to happen today, it still doesn't address the underlying social and economic circumstances that have and will continue to contribute to a woman's decision to abort!

Many people, including Christian conservatives, oppose MURDER (even when you try to cloak it in the word 'abort').