Why Don't the Liberals Want a Wall?

[WizardofOz]

My understanding is the Democrat plan, such as it is, is to invest in reasonable cost-effective border improvements, increasing use of technology to improve the border patrol's effectiveness (virtual wall), and significant reform of immigration policy.

Now we're getting somewhere :thumb:

I feel that Trump is asking for too much. He wants too much money for a one dimensional approach that may not be the most efficient. I like your response as that is what I feel is the best approach, virtual wall in certain areas (rough terrain, privately owned lands, etc), a way to detect tunneling, drones and other aerial reconnaissance, more border patrol agents, etc.

But, all of this costs money. How much should we expect taxpayers to pony up per year?

This has always been one of my pet peeves with politics. If you don't like a plan, formulate a better one. Don't just sit back and fling poo at the less than desirable plan. Trump also needs to get it through his head that unless he is willing to negotiate, he's rendering himself a lame duck in his first term. A little pragmatism wouldn't kill him. He just doesn't seem willing to bend at all on this issue and look where it's gotten us.

Although, I think the "government shutdown" is just hilarious and hope it does continue. Who needs them? :idunno:

Spoiler

 

[The Barbarian]

And once again the desperate attempt to conflate illegal immigrants and people who entered without inspection.
People who overstay their visa have committed a civil infraction, people who enter without inspection have committed a misdemeanor.

Those are all illegal aliens. As you know about half of all illegal aliens come here legally and then just overstay their visas. But the statistics include all the illgal aliens, not just the ones who are overstaying.

The fact is, that illegal aliens are less likely to commit crimes than are native-born Americans. No one really thinks that it's a crime problem. They actually bring down the crime rate by living here.

 

[The Barbarian]

Although, I think the "government shutdown" is just hilarious and hope it does continue. Who needs them?

At some point, the border patrol agents won't be able to continue their work for free, and will quit. Then what?

 

[musterion]

https://thegoldwater.com/news/43931...-Case-Leads-to-Arrest-of-Three-Illegal-Aliens

Nah, we don't need any kinda wall.

 

[WizardofOz]

At some point, the border patrol agents won't be able to continue their work for free, and will quit. Then what?

Then the shutdown gets really interesting. I mean how can we have border security if the border patrol isn't even getting paid? :think:

It's nothing more than a high stakes game of chicken. Who will blink first? :shut:

 

[Kit the Coyote]

Now try responding to what is actually being asked: Who thinks a wall would be a sensible option in the face of an invasion?

Well, put that way, as I said it is a tactical tool which means yes it is an option. Whether it is a sensible one would depend on the situation and what other steps are being taken, as noted fixed defenses by themselves to not stop invasions or win wars.

 

[WizardofOz]

Well, put that way, as I said it is a tactical tool which means yes it is an option. Whether it is a sensible one would depend on the situation and what other steps are being taken, as noted fixed defenses by themselves to not stop invasions or win wars.

Wait just a minute here. What kind of 'coyote' are you, exactly? :noid:

 

[Kit the Coyote]

Now we're getting somewhere :thumb:

I feel that Trump is asking for too much. He wants too much money for a one dimensional approach that may not be the most efficient. I like your response as that is what I feel is the best approach, virtual wall in certain areas (rough terrain, privately owned lands, etc), a way to detect tunneling, drones and other aerial reconnaissance, more border patrol agents, etc.

But, all of this costs money. How much should we expect taxpayers to pony up per year?

The Democrats offered $1.5 Billion towards that goal,

This has always been one of my pet peeves with politics. If you don't like a plan, formulate a better one. Don't just sit back and fling poo at the less than desirable plan. Trump also needs to get it through his head that unless he is willing to negotiate, he's rendering himself a lame duck in his first term. A little pragmatism wouldn't kill him. He just doesn't seem willing to bend at all on this issue and look where it's gotten us.

I agree completely.

Although, I think the "government shutdown" is just hilarious and hope it does continue. Who needs them? :idunno:

Government shutdowns in the past have not lasted long enough to really feel the pain. I am very grateful that this year Congress at least did half its job and I'm not caught up in this one.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

At some point, the border patrol agents won't be able to continue their work for free, and will quit. Then what?

TSA agents are already starting to call in sick in increasing numbers. It's not impacting travel screening yet but at the rate, it is increasing it will.

 

[Kit the Coyote]

Wait just a minute here. What kind of 'coyote' are you, exactly? :noid:

 

[WizardofOz]

The Democrats offered $1.5 Billion towards that goal,

Do you feel that this is enough funding to adequately secure the border?

The yearly budger has been over $3 billion since Obama was in office

Government shutdowns in the past have not lasted long enough to really feel the pain. I am very grateful that this year Congress at least did half its job and I'm not caught up in this one.

What pain can we expect to feel? No one I know works for the federal government. I'm looking forward to people realizing that we don't need big brother to change our pampers on a daily basis and everything will be OK.

TSA agents are already starting to call in sick in increasing numbers. It's not impacting travel screening yet but at the rate, it is increasing it will.

Good riddance.

 

[ok doser]

I'm looking forward to people realizing that we don't need big brother to change our pampers on a daily basis and everything will be OK.

this was circulating on facebook yesterday:

Disturbing photos show national parks and monuments overflowing with garbage as the US government shutdown continues

because idiot americans don't know any better than to dump trash next to an overflowing trash barrel :doh:

 

[fool]

Those are all illegal aliens. As you know about half of all illegal aliens come here legally and then just overstay their visas. But the statistics include all the illgal aliens, not just the ones who are overstaying.

The fact is, that illegal aliens are less likely to commit crimes than are native-born Americans. No one really thinks that it's a crime problem. They actually bring down the crime rate by living here.

People who cross without inspection are 100% criminals since crossing without inspection is a crime.

 

[fool]

this was circulating on facebook yesterday:

Disturbing photos show national parks and monuments overflowing with garbage as the US government shutdown continues

because idiot americans don't know any better than to dump trash next to an overflowing trash barrel :doh:

Need some Boy Scouts, or Person Scouts or whatever they're called these days.

 

[Crucifer]

People who cross without inspection are 100% criminals since crossing without inspection is a crime.

Which means nothing.
When a homeless person goes into a vacant house for a place to rest, do you charge him with trespassing and call him a criminal?

Motive is what makes a crime, these people are in poverty.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Which means nothing.
When a homeless person goes into a vacant house for a place to rest, do you charge him with trespassing and call him a criminal?

Motive is what makes a crime, these people are in poverty.

Homelessness is usually a result of bad decisions in a person's life, usually exacerbated by the policies set by our government.

 

[The Barbarian]

People who cross without inspection are 100% criminals since crossing without inspection is a crime.

Yep. They just are less likely to commit crimes than you are, once they are here. Assuming you're the average native-born American.

 

[WizardofOz]

this was circulating on facebook yesterday:

Disturbing photos show national parks and monuments overflowing with garbage as the US government shutdown continues

because idiot americans don't know any better than to dump trash next to an overflowing trash barrel :doh:

= the equivalent of the government having to change people’s pampers :sigh: eventually people will step up and clean the trash. Government diaper changing hampers self-reliance

 

[The Barbarian]

TSA agents are already starting to call in sick in increasing numbers. It's not impacting travel screening yet but at the rate, it is increasing it will.

It's not as though TSA people get paid very much, anyway. And they don't get adequate training. I'm generally in awe of how well they do their jobs, given the situation they are in. Yes, a few are abusive or steal from bags. That's not the norm. Given the educational level of most of them, and the lack of training they get, I'm surprised they do as well as they do.

So when the government says "you need to keep doing your crappy job, but we aren't going to pay you now" it's not surprising that they "get sick" when a chance to make some money on a side job appears.

 

[The Barbarian]

Then the shutdown gets really interesting. I mean how can we have border security if the border patrol isn't even getting paid? :think:

It's nothing more than a high stakes game of chicken. Who will blink first? :shut:

Nancy Pelosi is in the cab of an 18 wheeler. Trump is leading a phalanx of tricycles. And not as many tricycles as there were a day ago.