Homosexuality will destroy this and any country and needs to be recriminalized

[aCultureWarrior]

Quote:
Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Repentance of sinful behavior is love Al. Engaging in a deadly disease ridden behavior is hate.

Fundies from two camps demonstrating their bigotry and desire to force their beliefs and doctrine on others in the same thread is not without some degree of irony I note. But I suspect however that you haven't even noticed being confronted by your Muslim mirror image aCW since only your own beliefs can be the only "Truth" in town, right?

If I've told you once I've told you a thousand times Al, you secular humanists better pray to whatever you pray to that Christendom wins this culture war, cuz these Muslim barbarians will rape and murder homosexuals, but not necessarily in that order.

 

[alwight]

Btw fanatically waving your particular holy scripture around at every opportunity as if it were an absolute "Truth" or perhaps "proof" isn't exactly convincing me that you are even capable of being fair minded and balanced rather than a raving fundamentalist. :nono:

Which is the problem I mentioned earlier. You've become jaded.

Mindless fundamentalism is the real problem and risk to society, you perhaps can't see the wood for the trees it seems skyforger.
Ancient holy scripture, of say the Abrahamic variety, is simply a reflection on life as composed by ancient human minds of the time, nothing more. It does not have magical powers, nor should it be used as an excuse by fundamentalists to command and control those who don't agree or who choose not to adhere, since it is often clearly very wrong, cruel and ignorant. It is particularly wrong about such matters that seem to then require the inflicting of much inhumane punishments or the mistreatment of others who are then deemed by men, not gods, to be below their own fanatical standards.

I rather suspect that you that would have Sharia Law imposed on the country that you claim to love at the drop of a hat if you could, not just for the homophobic bigotry indicated in the title of this thread but for all aspects of life, right?

I don't think the world will ever be capable of properly implementing Sharia Law. Also, Sharia Law needs acceptance from the populace so I wouldn't try to implement it here. Your foolishness in supporting homosexuality by referring to views that are counter to it's immorality as "homophobic bigotry" shows to me that you are as close minded as you see me to be. So, arguing with you further is going to be pointless. I'm just going to use this thread as an outlet for my feelings and probably ignore you for the most part after this.

You perhaps then have nothing but a mindless adherence to an ancient scripture that consenting adults should not be free to choose for themselves what they do in private and with whom? If you don't like being referred to as a homophobic bigot than stop being one, think for yourself and stop using ancient religious scripture as a fig leaf for it.

It's fundamentalism like yours, not just the Islamic kind, that is the real danger here, as some of us have been pointing out to your resident Christian fundamentalist counterpart (aCW) who has been wooing us all with his own pleasant charms here on ToL for a few years now. lain:

See above response. Your idiocy will destroy us. I'll just take precautions for when you succeed.

See above, then see aCWs posts and see the Christian reflection of you.

Just curious skyforger. Why would you seem to feel a need to contrive such a stupid loaded question?

What would I say if slimy green alien creatures from Alfa Centaury took over the world? mmm

So that you'd have a chance to think about your mistakes. But you don't see them as mistakes, so there's no need for you to answer the question. I could have asked: If you end up in hell for supporting the homo's what would you say and do? But I figured I'd try something more towards this life than the afterlife that I'm not sure you believe in. I know I'd get the same answer as quoted now so I won't bother pressing the question.

You can't demonstrate my "mistakes" by bald assertion alone skyforger, I'll take my chances on who's hell I may or may not end up in, but maybe I will see you there too who knows? Not you I suggest.

Again, as with alwight, you've all become jaded and accepting of immorality. In a way it's like stealing. You don't start with a car. You start with a candybar in a store when no one is looking. Then it's a DVD. Next it's some electronics. After a while you work your way up to cars. So many of you cannot see how far your moral compass has fallen. You probably engage in sins routinely that would have shocked the previous generations. All in the name of progress. Well, you're certainly making progress, but I don't think you're really looking at the destination you're progressing towards. I can't help but call you names and that will detract from your attention span for my comments. But I figure that most of you weren't going to pay attention anyways. Not my problem. I only felt it necessary to post this so that I didn't bottle it up inside and so that you had a chance to see the immorality you were condoning. I've done that. You didn't listen, and now I've done my part and can probably leave it be for a bit. The people laughed at Noah's ark, they stayed behind to practice abominations in Lot, and they built a golden calf in Moses's absence. Sin has always been appealing, and only when people see their own ruination do they repent (at which point it's too late). So, you've got your chance and you can take it or leave it. My (metaphorical) money's on you leaving it though. I just hope I don't have to actually see you burning in hell from a distance for your actions though, I'm kinda squeamish about that sort of thing.

Sorry skyforger but you can't demonstrate to me from ancient scripture who would go to hell and why nor even that there is such a fate in store for anyone. For all you know homophobic bigots would be the first to get to go there.
If my own moral compass is actually discordant with the real god then that's between me and the real god not Earthbound fundamentalist bigots adhering to their particular holy scripture.lain:

 

[alwight]

If I've told you once I've told you a thousand times Al, you secular humanists better pray to whatever you pray to that Christendom wins this culture war, cuz these Muslim barbarians will rape and murder homosexuals, but not necessarily in that order.

Their medieval fundamentalist mind-set may arguably not be quite as sophisticated or up to date as yours is perhaps aCW, but you are hardly a breath of fresh air. :nono:

 

[glassjester]

Their medieval fundamentalist mind-set may arguably not be quite as sophisticated or up to date as yours is perhaps aCW, but you are hardly a breath of fresh air. :nono:

By what standard do you evaluate how good or bad a particular "mind-set" is?

 

[alwight]

By what standard do you evaluate how good or bad a particular "mind-set" is?

Unlike some religionists apparently I seem to be able to make my own relative valuations without any need at all to refer to an ancient scripture first.
However I never pretend that my standards are objective and absolute, only mine.

 

[glassjester]

Unlike some religionists apparently I seem to be able to make my own relative valuations without any need at all to refer to an ancient scripture first.

And how do you do that?

 

[alwight]

And how do you do that?

By using the brain that you presumably think God gave me. :thumb:

 

[glassjester]

By using the brain that you presumably think God gave me. :thumb:

Come on, we're capable of better discussion than that.

On what do you base "your own relative valuations" when evaluating a particular action or opinion?

What I mean is, if you say something is wrong to do - what is it you actually mean?

Examples could include:
- It is wrong to murder.
- It is wrong to make homosexual acts illegal.
- It is wrong to throw rocks off of overpasses.

 

[alwight]

Come on, we're capable of better discussion than that.

On what do you base "your own relative valuations" when evaluating a particular action or opinion?

What I mean is, if you say something is wrong to do - what is it you actually mean?

Examples could include:
- It is wrong to murder.
pretty much i- It is wrong to make homosexual acts illegal.
- It is wrong to throw rocks off of overpasses.

OK, well, as a reasonably intelligent person who has lived more than long enough to have experienced many things, who has been demonstrably both right and wrong empirically many times, I have learned to value my own judgement. I realise that if I don't want to be harmed by others then by the same token I mustn't do harm to others.
I don't claim to have perfect judgement only what my brain processes as right or wrong, and which I think that my conclusions are pretty much in line with what is generally accepted as reasonable.

You otoh will probably now tell me that all such mores and personal conclusions are not valid and superseded by Godly absolutes and diktats?
The thing is even if that were true, why should I believe in any such absolute standards or mores when it is only other fallible human beings telling me so? :think:

 

[serpentdove]

"[W]e stone them to death for it."

Should we put (Gen. 13:13) Sodomites ([Ex 20:14] heterosexual [Lev. 20:10–12] or homosexual [Lev. 20:10,13]) to death?

more

 

[glassjester]

OK, well, as a reasonably intelligent person who has lived more than long enough to have experienced many things, who has been demonstrably both right and wrong empirically many times, I have learned to value my own judgement. I realise that if I don't want to be harmed by others then by the same token I mustn't do harm to others.
I don't claim to have perfect judgement only what my brain processes as right or wrong, and which I think that my conclusions are pretty much in line with what is generally accepted as reasonable.

I appreciate the genuine response. Conversation isn't possible otherwise.

The measure of whether something should or should not be done, then, is the degree to which it causes harm to another person. Am I understanding that?

You otoh will probably now tell me that all such mores and personal conclusions are not valid and superseded by Godly absolutes and diktats?
The thing is even if that were true, why should I believe in any such absolute standards or mores when it is only other fallible human beings telling me so? :think:

You will not see me espousing a "because I said so" stance here. I don't think there's much value in trying to get someone to believe something without any reason.

I will seek to understand your reasoning though.

 

[alwight]

I appreciate the genuine response. Conversation isn't possible otherwise.

:e4e:

The measure of whether something should or should not be done, then, is the degree to which it causes harm to another person. Am I understanding that?

What I'm saying is that we have the mental capacity to evaluate and to come up with standards, and that then such things will typically get passed on to the young (memes?).
I could of course cause great harm to others and suffer none myself in return, but I have no need of any supposed divine leash to prevent me. I have my own mental control and I expect that we are each able to conclude for ourselves the difference between right and wrong, in relative terms at least, reasonably well.
Society will usually let's us know if we are stepping out of line or rewards us for being good, it requires no adherence to supposed absolutes.

You will not see me espousing a "because I said so" stance here. I don't think there's much value in trying to get someone to believe something without any reason.

I will seek to understand your reasoning though.

Thank you.
Btw my relative judgement by the same token is that homosexuality between consenting adults in private is not wrong merely because the author of an ancient scripture says it is.

 

[aikido7]

Let's wait a few years, shall we?

My opinion here might be seen as disruptive, but I predict there will be no more threads allowed on TOL that are bigoted and homophobic.

 

[glassjester]

:e4e:

What I'm saying is that we have the mental capacity to evaluate and to come up with standards, and that then such things will typically get passed on to the young (memes?).
I could of course cause great harm to others and suffer none myself in return, but I have no need of any supposed divine leash to prevent me. I have my own mental control and I expect that we are each able to conclude for ourselves the difference between right and wrong, in relative terms at least, reasonably well.
Society will usually let's us know if we are stepping out of line or rewards us for being good, it requires no adherence to supposed absolutes.

I agree. There is something of an evolutionary activity to the moral standards of a society of people. Do you think it's possible for the morality of an entire group to shift through this process?

Thank you.
Btw my relative judgement by the same token is that homosexuality between consenting adults in private is not wrong merely because the author of an ancient scripture says it is.

Again, I have to agree. I do not think anything could be wrong just because someone says it is.

 

[alwight]

I agree. There is something of an evolutionary activity to the moral standards of a society of people. Do you think it's possible for the morality of an entire group to shift through this process?

Yes, a moral zeitgeist.

 

[The Horn]

Sorry , but you're just one of those Christian fanatics who literally wants the government in everyone's bedroom . You want a Christian theocracy in America , which is exactly what the founding fathers were so opposed to .
You want our government to make everything YOU disapprove of illegal . First homosexuality , alcoholic beverages, adultery etc .
You want the Christian equivalent of George Orwell's 1984 imposed on America , with Christian Big Brother constantly keeping everybody under observation just to make sure you're not doing something the Christian Taliban disapproves of .
Some "limited government " ! Adultery is an unfortunate thing, but it's amatter between married couples, and our Big Brother government has NO RIGHT to persecute people for this .
America tried Prohibition , but it was a n enomrous failure which only enabled Al Capone and other mobsters to make a fortune .
Abortion was officially illegal except for some US states until 1973 , but there were countless illegal abortions before it performed by dangerous and unsanitary back-alley abortionists and who knows how many dead women or ones who nearly died . All the time, women who could afford it flew off to Europe for safe legal ones .
How many illegal abortions were criminally prosecuted ?
You can pretty much count them on your fingers . The law was almost NEVER enforced , because there was no way to do this .
Gay people used to live in fear of being discovered , fired fromt heir jobs and being blackmailed by greedy, unscrupulous people .
Many were sent to mental institutions forbrutal electric shock "therapy " to "cure" them of their homosexuality and some were even LOBOTOMIZED !
Do you really want America to return to this sordid past ? To try to do this on the part of our government would be a total failure, waste billiosn of dollars a year and turn this country into a totalitarian police state . And it would be a massive violation of human rights !

 

[Arthur Brain]

Let's wait a few years, shall we?

My opinion here might be seen as disruptive, but I predict there will be no more threads allowed on TOL that are bigoted and homophobic.

I highly doubt that to be honest and I'm presuming you mean in regards to censorship laws than TOL management disallowing them? I would also hope not either as if you deprive people of a voice - no matter how much you might disagree with their opinion - you simply drive it underground and potentially cause more unrest than if they were allowed their say.

I'd far sooner buffoons like aCW and his demented ilk could spew out their fixated bile as it actually exposes them for what they are and for all to see.

 

[jgarden]

81 countries with anti-homosexuality laws

Africa

1 Algeria
2 Angola
3 Botswana
4 Burundi
5 Cameroon
6 Comoros
7 Egypt
8 Eritrea
9 Ethiopia
10 Gambia
11 Ghana
12 Guinea
13 Kenya
14 Liberia
15 Libya
16 Malawi (enforcement of law suspended)
17 Mauritania
18 Mauritius
19 Morocco
20 Namibia
21 Nigeria
22 Senegal
23 Seychelles
24 Sierra Leone
25 Somalia
26 South Sudan
27 Sudan
28 Swaziland
29 Tanzania
30 Togo
31 Tunisia
32 Uganda
33 Zambia
34 Zimbabwe

Asia, including the Middle East

35 Afghanistan
36 Bangladesh
37 Bhutan
38 Brunei
39 Daesh (or ISIS / ISIL)
40 India
41 Iran
42 Iraq
43 Kuwait
44 Lebanon (law ruled invalid in one court)
45 Malaysia
46 Maldives
47 Myanmar
48 Oman
49 Pakistan
50 Palestine/Gaza Strip
51 Qatar
52 Saudi Arabia
53 Singapore
54 Sri Lanka
55 Syria
56 Turkmenistan
57 United Arab Emirates
58 Uzbekistan
59 Yemen

Americas

60 Antigua & Barbuda
61 Barbados
62 Belize
63 Dominica
64 Grenada
65 Guyana
66 Jamaica
67 St Kitts & Nevis
68 St Lucia
69 St Vincent & the Grenadines
70 Trinidad & Tobago

Oceania

71 Cook Islands
72 Indonesia (Aceh Province and South Sumatra)
73 Kirbati
74 Nauru
75 Papua New Guinea
76 Samoa
77 Solomon Islands
78 Tonga
79 Tuvalu

Europe

80 Russia
81 Lithuania

http://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/

Homosexuality will destroy this and any country and needs to be recriminalized

Which of these democratic paradises which have crimminalized homosexuals do America comservatives wish to identify?

The vast majority aren't even Christian!

 

[Bright Raven]

Agreed. Homosexuality must be restricted.

 

[TracerBullet]

Agreed. Homosexuality must be restricted.

how?

walled ghettos?
mass imprisonment?
Internment camps?
Death squads?