The Case Against Universal Healthcare

[resodko]

:mock:those who use free internet service at libraries

 

[Tinark]

:mock:those who use free internet service at libraries

 

[resodko]

cary grant, eh?


randolph scott's bff? :chuckle:

 

[shagster01]

It doesn't - it is an objective fact that humans didn't die off due to the lack of it.

They didn't die off due to lack of universal health care either.

However, I think free internet service at libraries is a good thing to have - it allows those with little means to better themselves by applying for jobs or to educate themselves. It's a public service that pays for itself and therefore a good investment.

But it also gives us Republicanchick.

 

[shagster01]

That would defeat the purpose - you'd have healthy people opting out, leaving no funding for the sick and less healthy.

That shows how dumb it is then. It's a benefit to some, a burden to others.

Then, when they did get sick, they'd be demanding treatment in emergency rooms and the like.

Too bad for them. They opted out.

You don't get to opt out of programs that benefit the public just because you don't like them. The US is really the only holdout in this regard. You don't see any groups of any influence in all the other countries with UHC trying to abolish it - once people experience its benefits, it becomes quite popular.

Because the US can't afford it. I work at a hospital and Obamacare is killing us. We have less than half the staff we did when I started 9 years ago and are still making cuts. The problem is that our government doesn't pay their bills.

What government program is better than its private counterpart? Name one.

 

[Tinark]

They didn't die off due to lack of universal health care either.

Not getting treatment can lead to death or needless suffering.

 

[Tinark]

Because the US can't afford it. I work at a hospital and Obamacare is killing us. We have less than half the staff we did when I started 9 years ago and are still making cuts. The problem is that our government doesn't pay their bills.

What government program is better than its private counterpart? Name one.

Is the US some third world country with no money? Every first world country on the planet can manage to afford it, but not the US?

Is Medicare killing your hospital? Do you support the abolition of Medicare? UHC is simply Medicare for all. If people with money want some additional private coverage beyond what the UHC Medicare for all would provide, then they'd still be free to do so.

 

[shagster01]

Is the US some third world country with no money? Every first world country on the planet can manage to afford it, but not the US?

Is Medicare killing your hospital? Do you support the abolition of Medicare? UHC is simply Medicare for all. If people with money want some additional private coverage beyond what the UHC Medicare for all would provide, then they'd still be free to do so.

Medicare is a money drain for hospitals, but they could usually overcome it. When it grows to a larger scale like Obamacare they cannot.

Let me explain how medicare/Obamacare work...

A procedure is done. They hospital submits the bill for $1500, for example. The government says, "great, here's a check for $500." And there is nothing the hospital can do about it.

The problem is that the government gets to decide what it is going to pay. Much like when the Soviet Union tried to set it's own market price on goods. That socialism doesn't work.

 

[Tinark]

Medicare is a money drain for hospitals, but they could usually overcome it. When it grows to a larger scale like Obamacare they cannot.

Let me explain how medicare/Obamacare work...

A procedure is done. They hospital submits the bill for $1500, for example. The government says, "great, here's a check for $500." And there is nothing the hospital can do about it.

The problem is that the government gets to decide what it is going to pay. Much like when the Soviet Union tried to set it's own market price on goods. That socialism doesn't work.

If the hospital wants to charge higher than the Medicare price, is it not allowed to do so? If not, it's a bad law and not what I'm supporting. Why not send the remaining $1,000 bill to the patient (make it known up front that Medicare doesn't fully cover the price they charge, and tell the patient that they or their supplemental insurance will be billed for the balance)? The patient having to pay $1,000 is surely a better deal than $1,500. Regardless, I advocate for adequate funding for necessary medical care so that everyone has basic access with no out of pocket. If they want anything beyond that, and some places want to charge extra for beyond that, I have no problem with it.

Furthermore, there are examples of many countries that have managed to overcome these dysfunctional problems. How have they been able to do so, and why is the US so particularly dysfunctional?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Medicare is a money drain for hospitals, but they could usually overcome it. When it grows to a larger scale like Obamacare they cannot.

Let me explain how medicare/Obamacare work...

A procedure is done. They hospital submits the bill for $1500, for example. The government says, "great, here's a check for $500." And there is nothing the hospital can do about it.

The problem is that the government gets to decide what it is going to pay. Much like when the Soviet Union tried to set it's own market price on goods. That socialism doesn't work.

Wow. What an utter and complete failure to understand the ACA (Obamacare).

 

[shagster01]

Wow. What an utter and complete failure to understand the ACA (Obamacare).

That's how it works. Show me differently.

 

[shagster01]

If the hospital wants to charge higher than the Medicare price, is it not allowed to do so? If not, it's a bad law and not what I'm supporting. Why not send the remaining $1,000 bill to the patient (make it known up front that Medicare doesn't fully cover the price they charge, and tell the patient that they or their supplemental insurance will be billed for the balance)? The patient having to pay $1,000 is surely a better deal than $1,500. Regardless, I advocate for adequate funding for necessary medical care so that everyone has basic access with no out of pocket. If they want anything beyond that, and some places want to charge extra for beyond that, I have no problem with it.

Furthermore, there are examples of many countries that have managed to overcome these dysfunctional problems. How have they been able to do so, and why is the US so particularly dysfunctional?

I lived abroad in my early 20's in Estonia and Norway.

Norway's system was ok because it is based on sales tax. This means that I was helping fund their system simply by buying things. The good part about this system is that every citizen, tourist, and illegal alien are putting money into it.

If the US moves to that system of taxation (instead of income tax), I'll reconsider my position.

 

[CabinetMaker]

That's how it works. Show me differently.

Read the act. It does not determine coverage limits, it mandates that you carry insurance. The carrier determines coverage limits. What you described is medicare/medicaid.

 

[shagster01]

Read the act. It does not determine coverage limits, it mandates that you carry insurance. The carrier determines coverage limits. What you described is medicare/medicaid.

The act itself does not. But the government option does.

 

[CabinetMaker]

The act itself does not. But the government option does.

The government option is medicare/medicaid and those have been around for a long time.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

I just added a poll to this thread to try and get a better picture of what people here think. Feel free to cast your vote.

:cheers:

 

[resodko]

Is the US some third world country with no money? Every first world country on the planet can manage to afford it, but not the US?

america's system has given the world the majority of advances in medical care

I lived abroad in my early 20's in Estonia and Norway.

Norway's system was ok because it is based on sales tax....

norway's system is OK because their economy thrives, due to their oil exports

same as canada and mexico

 

[resodko]

I just added a poll to this thread to try and get a better picture of what people here think. Feel free to cast your vote.

:cheers:

let him who is without obamacare cast the first vote?





i voted yes, but i want the chinese to pay for it! :banana:

 

[lovemeorhateme]

america's system has given the world the majority of advances in medical care

Could you possibly cite a source for that assertion?

 

[resodko]

Could you possibly cite a source for that assertion?

cite