The coronavirus scam

[chair]

The best solution is to do what we've done in all of history. Let the virus run its coarse with the protections we have used in the past and have seen work. The medical community needs to tell the truth that masks don't help much. If you're sick, you stay home. If you are a business that is worried about people gathering then hire people, perhaps in full virus gear, to enforce distancing rules you impose and hire other people to constantly clean behind everything anyone can touch. If that's too expensive and you are still worred about your business causing the spread of the virus then close until you are not worried anymore. Certainly old age homes should enact protections.

..."protections like we've used in the past". Do you think masks and social distancing were invented a few months ago?

...but you want to support a government that can shut down any activity for any virus at any time. And if you don't think that's true, then give us your principles upon which you would limit a government's edicts in this context. Can you see how people like me are merely being reasonable when we get up in arms about you supporting that?

You are exaggerating my position ("a government that can shut down any activity for any virus at any time"), and you know it. I don't have a solid quantitative answer as to under exactly what conditions the government should be able to impose limitations. Despite other epidemics, this remains an unusual situation. Can you suggest such guidelines? Seriously- do you think there are situations in which governments can undertake such steps, and if so- what circumstances.

 

[Yorzhik]

The pandemic is over for the summer? Great, now how about the fall, when flu season sets in? What do you think the coronavirus will do then?



Rather, it will be remembered as another pandemic like the Spanish Flu.

Hardly. The Spanish flu was much worse by this point in its run, and they didn't have as many treatment options as we do today and it was killing bread-winners, mothers, and children. In other words, the chance for it to be another Spanish flu has already passed. It will be a bad flu season, especially since we now know the death rates are inflated and the death rate is less than a regular flu season (not even a bad one like Swine flu) for the under-65 demographic which is the vast majority of the working population plus 100% of the children.

 

[User Name]

Hardly. The Spanish flu was much worse by this point in its run

We're better off only because we have much better medical treatment than they did in 1918 and because we have taken much greater measures to mitigate the spread of the coronavirus. Otherwise, it would have been just as deadly.

 

[Yorzhik]

..."protections like we've used in the past". Do you think masks and social distancing were invented a few months ago?

No, but they don't help much with virii so that kind of thing should be left up to the individual if they want to give themselves that little bit of insurance or not. Realize those things come at a cost which is why *mandating* them by law will lead to more death, which is why someone might not want to pay the cost for the tiny extra benefit.

You are exaggerating my position ("a government that can shut down any activity for any virus at any time"), and you know it. I don't have a solid quantitative answer as to under exactly what conditions the government should be able to impose limitations. Despite other epidemics, this remains an unusual situation. Can you suggest such guidelines? Seriously- do you think there are situations in which governments can undertake such steps, and if so- what circumstances.

I'm showing you that I'm not exaggerating your point. If you don't have an principled answer, then you have no logical reason to protest any government mandate at any level.

As a wise lawer once said (yes, I know the 99% bad lawyers make the 1% good ones look bad): You have to understand that every single law carries the threat of death. Just look at Eric Garner who paid with his life for doing nothing wrong. If you don't have a principle that says "selling loosies is OK because everyone has a right over their own property starting with themselves" then you are eventually condeming people like Eric to death by police violence.

Here is the principle - the government has one job, that being a justice system. They cannot run a health care system without the opposite of a health care system as the result. All they can do is react to people who could possibly be negligent in spreading the disease in this context. If we do the normal things we do for the flu, that's all they can hope for. A justice system shouldn't have the medical staff to inform you of the best coarse of action, but there are plenty of doctors that gave us the information we needed to know. If a government official sends COVID patients into nursing homes after they know COVID kills old people then that government official is guilty of murder.

 

[Yorzhik]

We're better off only because we have much better medical treatment than they did in 1918 and because we have taken much greater measures to mitigate the spread of the coronavirus. Otherwise, it would have been just as deadly.

Sweden proves you wrong. And the demographic data does too.

 

[User Name]

Sweden proves you wrong. And the demographic data does too.

Sweden doesn't have better medical treatment than they did in 1918?

 

[Jefferson]

Many of them are fake? How many? 75%? Higher?

Can you ballpark a figure?

More than one deliberately faked number is too high.

And you're avoiding my question: Why are any of them faked?

 

[User Name]

More than one deliberately faked number is too high.

And you're avoiding my question: Why are any of them faked?

To make Orange Man look bad, of course. Everyone knows that.

 

[Yorzhik]

Sweden doesn't have better medical treatment than they did in 1918?

Since the vast majority of people didn't access medical services for COVID, it's not relevant. A reason they didn't is because demographic data shows below 65 COVID is not even as bad as the flu.

 

[Yorzhik]

To make Orange Man look bad, of course. Everyone knows that.

So how far would leftists, who's chief characteristic is that there is no absolute morality, go to make Orange man look bad?

 

[User Name]

So how far would leftists, who's chief characteristic is that there is no absolute morality, go to make Orange man look bad?

See my thread on that topic: Coronavirus conspiracy theory - let's get the claims straight

 

[Jefferson]

Any comment on Trump's aborted attempt to delay the election in November on the grounds that it is too dangerous to go out and vote in this viral pandemic, yet Trump still demands that schools open?

It was probably an attempt by Trump to get the Dems to publicly oppose a delay, figuring the TDS dems would reflexively oppose anything Trump is for. The Dems need mail-in voting so they can cheat. But Mail-in voting will cause a delay in the public knowing who won the election. Hence, the Dems would have to come out against Mail-in voting which is exactly what Trump wants them to do.

 

[ok doser]

The pandemic is over for the summer. And if we let it run its coarse it will only be remembered as another pandemic like SARS, MERS, Asian flu, Hong Kong flu, and Swine flu.

But Yorzhik - people like eider NEED to believe that the sky is falling, they NEED to believe that it's Trump's fault, they NEED to believe that more governmental control is the only possible solution.

 

[User Name]

Sweden proves you wrong.

What have the Swedes done to mitigate the spread of the coronavirus in their country?

Also, Sweden's outbreak is now the fifth-worst in the world, per capita. Sweden's mortality rate from the coronavirus is now 30% higher than that of the United States when adjusted for population size. Why don't you instead mention other countries which have actually been quite successful in dealing with the pandemic, such as South Korea?

 

[Jefferson]

To make Orange Man look bad, of course. Everyone knows that.

Are you being serious or sarcastic?

 

[User Name]

Are you being serious or sarcastic?

Perhaps some of both. Obviously there are some people out there who are bent on sabotaging Trump any way they can, and the Re-publicans do the same in return. But for the most part...we know that the virus is real, the illness is real, and people are really dying from it. It's happening all over the planet, so it ain't just about making Thump look dumb. He's more than capable of doing that all by himself.

 

[Jefferson]

But for the most part...we know that the virus is real, the illness is real, and people are really dying from it.

Then why are people faking some of the numbers?

 

[User Name]

Then why are people faking some of the numbers?

Idk, has anyone tried asking them?

 

[ok doser]

Then why are people faking some of the numbers?

 

[ok doser]