chrysostom
- Thread starter chrysostom
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Nope.
I'm saying that according to Calvinism, what you (or anyone else) believes at any given time is exactly what God planned for you to believe at that time.
And if, at this time, you believe a lie to be truth, then that is what God planned for you to believe at this time.
So, anything you say or do in an attempt to convince someone to believe, through scripture, logic, or anything else, is vanity.
It's like talking to the wind.
That's what I'm looking for.I'll tell you what I understand about what I think.
How's that?
Not looking for any orthodox systematic creed.
Just what you actually think on the matter.
For the record, I believe Calvinists have the same view of the end result - by grace instead of works.
It's the method of getting there where we differ.
Proverbs 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
God utilizes the wicked to punish sin, even unto their own selves. He also uses the wicked as a spectacle to the righteous, so they see the importance of grace.
It's amazing how you all completely cut out literally half of God and reality altogether to attack the inevitable truth. It's not called 'reformed' doctrine for nothing, it is the unadulterated, rigid truth you all try to bend.
theophilus
Well-known member
Galatians 6
1 Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted.
Paul is telling us to DO something.
2 Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ. 3 For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. 4 But each one must examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another. 5 For each one will bear his own load.
Paul is telling us to DO something.
6 The one who is taught the word is to share all good things with the one who teaches him.
Paul is telling us to DO something.
7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. 8 For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9 Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. 10 So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.
More things to DO.
11 See with what large letters I am writing to you with my own hand. 12 Those who desire to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ. 13 For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh. 14 But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16 And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
17 From now on let no one cause trouble for me, for I bear on my body the brand-marks of Jesus.
18 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brethren. Amen.
DOing things are not FOR your salvation. Doing things is one of the marks of Christ Jesus in you so the world can see:
1. The light you have been given by the Father of Lights.
2. You good works so the world may glorify the Father Who is in heaven.
3. To draw others to Christ Jesus.
4. To TEACH others about the mysteries of God and His Christ.
5. To be different from the world.
theophilus
Well-known member
No creed. Just what I think.
And yes, the goal is the same...but the way we all get there as individuals is as different as we are, in ourselves. We all walk a path. Mine may be rocky, yours may be windy, another's may be stormy and still others may be a "walk" in the park. BUT GOD, who knows our hearts, know exactly how His Spirit will work in us to bring us into the Kingdom.
heir
TOL Subscriber
None of those have anything to do with salvation! Paul tells us we did nothing of ourselves to be saved (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV, Titus 3:4-7 KJV). If you so much as moved your little finger in an attempt to save yourself, you aren't saved (Ephesians 2:7 KJV). Salvation is by grace (Romans 11:6 KJV). You cannot serve to be saved. Get saved and serve!
theophilus
Well-known member
You apparently read that part about "DOing things are not FOR your salvation."
And no one said anything about serving to be saved.
As for "Get saved and serve!" why don't you flesh that out for me?
What is "serving?"
Serving God?
Serving each other?
Serving ourselves?
Serving the Church?
Serving the poor?
Serving prisoners?
Serving the least of these?
Pray tell!
heir
TOL Subscriber
Brother John asked "what determines whether one is a Christian, or not?" and you made a list that has NOTHING to do with salvation so throwing in the "DOing things are not FOR your salvation." won't work for you unless you are now retracting what you initially said.You apparently read that part about "DOing things are not FOR your salvation."
And no one said anything about serving to be saved.
As for "Get saved and serve!" why don't you flesh that out for me?
What is "serving?"
Serving God?
Serving each other?
Serving ourselves?
Serving the Church?
Serving the poor?
Serving prisoners?
Serving the least of these?
Pray tell!
The truth of the matter is, you can not tell if a person is saved by what they do since salvation is not based upon anything that we DO! There's a whole lot of "moral" people around that are religious, but lost! Are you one of them?
heir
TOL Subscriber
The testimony that a Christian would confess their sins is an indicator that one does not believe they are all forgiven!
Colossians 2:13 KJV
To believe the gospel that is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth is to believe that when "Christ died for our sins" (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), He died for them all!
They are gone! Colossians 2:10-13 KJV
Colossians 2:13 KJV
To believe the gospel that is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth is to believe that when "Christ died for our sins" (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), He died for them all!
They are gone! Colossians 2:10-13 KJV
theophilus
Well-known member
[MENTION=6992]heir[/MENTION],
I am far from lost.
And you didn't answer the questions about serving.
And,
if salvation is not about doing things, why does Scripture tell us to do things?
I am far from lost.
And you didn't answer the questions about serving.
And,
if salvation is not about doing things, why does Scripture tell us to do things?
theophilus
Well-known member
Then why do we still sin?
Y'all are too hardheaded to realize that Paul is speaking to the saved, not to the lost. 'Our' sins, as in the elect.
According to Calvinism, don't the wicked deeds people do also glorify God?
theophilus
Well-known member
Everything God does is for His glory and by His decree.
Take Judas as the classic example:
The OT foretold the Christ would be betrayed.
Judas fulfilled the prophecy.
The betrayal of Christ and His crucifixion brought God the glory of abolishing the wall/enmity between His creatures and Himself and making a way for us to come to Him, even in all of our vileness (while we were yet sinners).
Make sense?
It could just as easily be you who has been hardened by God into believing that others are hardened so that you won't trust in the truth they are telling.
In other words. you could be one of those that God chose from the beginning to never be able to heed the truth that others tell you, and so you can only view the truth they are telling you as false.
heir
TOL Subscriber
What saved you? You can find the answers on how to serve by 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV in Romans through Philemon.
It isn't. You're still not convinced even though Paul writes that salvation is by grace through faith and that not of yourselves....If you apply that which is written in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrongly TO yourself as most religious do, you will remain confused.
Building on the foundation a wise masterbuilder Paul laid is for reward 1 Corinthians 3:10-15 KJV.
heir
TOL Subscriber
says the blinded 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV
I would say that betraying God was a wicked thing to do.
Or was it?
I mean, the wicked do wicked things because they cannot oppose God's will that they do wicked things.
And the righteous do righteous things because they cannot oppose God's will that they do righteous things.
Soooooo, neither the wicked or the righteous ever oppose God, but are only doing exactly as God wants them to do.
Soooooo, if we judge the wicked to be doing something they are not supposed to be doing, then aren't we essentially just telling them that they shouldn't be doing what God wants them to do????