chrysostom

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
morning sickness
open with snl

I used to like snl, so I googled the latest - a characterization of kavanaugh's testimony as "yelling and crying"

Only problem was, the clip they played dint show any yelling

Or crying


Somebody needs to tell them that it isn't funny if it's all made up, it has to have an element of truth in it

Loren (stupid autocorrext)
are you listening?
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
The Democrats told one lie after another during the hearings.
Give me the short list. What were the worst three lies?

You call Feinstein's actions as being political
Right. The delay and orchestrated front seems pretty much a creature of political calculation to me. I don't know how anyone could reasonably say otherwise.

but I say that she was plain dishonest in her actions.
Then you should be able to say why it was dishonest and I look forward to your doing that.

If she would have played fairly all of this Ford stuff would have never been made public and she knew it.
Being unfair isn't the same as being dishonest. And I suspect that it would have made it to the public, but it could have been handled in a way that was more respectful of the privacy of both parties. At least I hope that's the case.

Your response is why I can see that you are not neutral, as you claim.
I never said I was neutral, whatever you think that means (apparently support for the right wing narrative). I said publicly that I supported Kavanaugh and that he was an able jurist. Then I gave particular reasons why I think he damaged his nomination and why I no longer support it.

You may actually think that you are but your response proves otherwise to me.
Jerry, given how demonstrably incapable you are of seeing anything beyond the one side here, that doesn't surprise me.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Give me the short list. What were the worst three lies?

Senator Chris Coons said that since the accusations against Cavanaugh were not in regard to a criminal matter then the burden of proof is on Cavanaugh to prove his innocence. Coons knows better than that unless he is a total idiot because justice demands that it is the accuser who has the burden of proof, no matter the venue.

During the hearings Senator Richard Blumenthal, who earlier had told people that he was a Vietnam veteran despite the fact that he was never deployed to Vietnam, told a lie during the hearing when he accused Trump of being an “unindicted co-conspirator” in regard to the case of Michael Cohen even though he knew it was a lie. Everyone at the hearing knew it was a lie but the Democrats don't care because they only hope some of their lies fool some of the people.

And then you must know by now about Corey Booker's "Spartcus moment" when he lied and said that he was releasing 12 pages of classified documents containing emails from Kavanaugh’s service as an aide in George W. Bush’s White House--despite the fact that he knew that those documents were already released and no longer classified.

Being unfair isn't the same as being dishonest. And I suspect that it would have made it to the public, but it could have been handled in a way that was more respectful of the privacy of both parties. At least I hope that's the case.

So despite the fact that Dr. Ford expressed her desire not to have her name exposed and Feinstein assured her that it wouldn't be it was indeed released. To you it is just being unfair but in my book it is nothing less that being dishonest. The whole matter would never have seen the light of day if Feinstein and her partners in crime were honest but they could'nt care less about what both Ford and Kavanaugh have been going through.

Jerry, given how demonstrably incapable you are of seeing anything beyond the one side here, that doesn't surprise me.

It is you who is demonstrably incapable of seeing what is going on in the USA when you can continue to support those who have been defending the dastardly acts of Obama's Justice Department, FBI and CIA.

I can tell you are very intelligent but I cannot understand why you cannot see that those people were doing their best to make sure Hillary won. Peter Strzok, who led the investigation changed Comey's earlier draft language describing Clinton's actions as "grossly negligent" (which is a felony) to "extremely careless" (which isn't). Then all of the witnesses in this matter were given immunity. If you cannot see that the whole investigation against Hillary was a sham which was run by Strzok then you might be intelligent but you have poor judgment.

And it is beyond me how anyone can really think that the fact that Terry McAuliffe (the Clinton's good friend) gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to Jill McCabe as a campaign contribution but it was completely innocent despite the fact that her husband, Andrew McCabe (number two man in the FBI at that time) was investigating Hillary.

And if you cannot see that the investigation about Trump's so-called Russian collusion was also a sham then I can only conclude that you have poor judgment or you just don't want to know the truth.

It really scares me because if you are so easily fooled about these important matters then the creeps are winning and the freedom America enjoys now will soon disappear.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Senator Chris Coons said that since the accusations against Cavanaugh were not in regard to a criminal matter then the burden of proof is on Cavanaugh to prove his innocence. Coons knows better than that unless he is a total idiot because justice demands that it is the accuser who has the burden of proof, no matter the venue.
He may feel that way, believing the accuser, but he's wrong. It's not a lie, but it's pretty heavily biased and, I think, wrong headed.

During the hearings Senator Richard Blumenthal, who earlier had told people that he was a Vietnam veteran despite the fact that he was never deployed to Vietnam, told a lie during the hearing when he accused Trump of being an “unindicted co-conspirator” in regard to the case of Michael Cohen even though he knew it was a lie. Everyone at the hearing knew it was a lie but the Democrats don't care because they only hope some of their lies fool some of the people.
The Viet Nam bit, if repeated, would have been a lie. And looking into it, Booker echoed the same line. The remark is grounded in Cohen admitting to guilt while claiming he acted at the behest of the president. Since no grand jury (so far as I or you know) made a finding that Trump was a co-conspirator, the charge isn't true. Is it a lie? Yes in that regard, but if you believe Cohen then the president could be and arguably should be, so in that regard it isn't quite as clear, though it would be better to frame it that way, to say, "If you believe, as I do, Cohen's admission to the judge that he acted on behalf/behest of the president, then he should be an as yet unindicted co-conspirator."

That's a lot harder to maintain in bumper sticker form, which is the darling of politicians.

And then you must know by now about Corey Booker's "Spartcus moment" when he lied and said that he was releasing 12 pages of classified documents containing emails from Kavanaugh’s service as an aide in George W. Bush’s White House--despite the fact that he knew that those documents were already released and no longer classified.
That's one of your big three? He said he was going to do a thing already done? Okay. How is that a lie? Did he not do it, subsequently?

So despite the fact that Dr. Ford expressed her desire not to have her name exposed and Feinstein assured her that it wouldn't be it was indeed released. To you it is just being unfair but in my book it is nothing less that being dishonest.
Okay. I think it was as I noted it. Did she lie to Ford? Ford can speak to that better than we can.

The whole matter would never have seen the light of day if Feinstein and her partners in crime were honest but they could'nt care less about what both Ford and Kavanaugh have been going through.
I think they believed what they were up to was more important than any inconvenience to Ford. I've already said how little I think of that methodology.

It is you who is demonstrably incapable of seeing what is going on in the USA when you can continue to support those who have been defending the dastardly acts of Obama's Justice Department, FBI and CIA.
Support in what sense? I think you're wrong and do a disservice to the DOJ, FBI, and CIA. I think it smacks of the complaint leveled against the BLM movement on behalf of largely decent police officers, etc., but it's your prerogative. I'd remind you, again, that the government from congress to presidency to Court isn't under the control of your ideological enemies.

I can tell you are very intelligent but I cannot understand why you cannot see that those people were doing their best to make sure Hillary won.
I don't believe in conspiracy theory. I believe in evidence and due process. I think the Democrat Party did their best to rig the election [primaries] in favor of Hillary over Bernie. I think the FBI inadvertently helped the president secure his victory by the late address of emails in relation to Clinton's campaign, but ultimately people voted their consciences and that, along with the EC, determined the outcome.

Peter Strzok, who led the investigation changed Comey's earlier draft language describing Clinton's actions as "grossly negligent" (which is a felony) to "extremely careless" (which isn't). Then all of the witnesses in this matter were given immunity. If you cannot see that the whole investigation against Hillary was a sham which was run by Strzok then you might be intelligent but you have poor judgment.
When have we had a discussion about the Clinton emails? It wasn't a part of this one and is at best tangentially connected to it.

And if you cannot see that the investigation about Trump's so-called Russian collusion was also a sham then I can only conclude that you have poor judgment or you just don't want to know the truth.
Opinions concluded without discourse and first hand knowledge about anything don't particularly concern me, Jerry. They're simply repackaged insulation. I run into it a lot with people who are heavily invested in one side or the other.

It really scares me because if you are so easily fooled about these important matters then the creeps are winning and the freedom America enjoys now will soon disappear.
Or, maybe the guy you understand to be well educated and intelligent isn't fooled at all.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
When have we had a discussion about the Clinton emails? It wasn't a part of this one and is at best tangentially connected to it.

I spoke of the Democrats who have defended the dastardly acts of Obama's Justice Department, FBI and CIA.

Peter Strzok, who led the investigation changed Comey's earlier draft language describing Clinton's actions as "grossly negligent" (which is a felony) to "extremely careless" (which isn't). Then an examination of his emails demonstrated that he was extremely biased against Trump. Then all of the witnesses in this matter were given immunity. Then Strzok was fired from the FBI.

Do you really think that this investigation was on the up and up?

And it is beyond me how anyone can really think that the fact that Terry McAuliffe (the Clinton's good friend) gave hundreds of thousands of dollars (over $400,000) to Jill McCabe as a campaign contribution but it was completely innocent despite the fact that her husband, Andrew McCabe (number two man in the FBI at that time) was investigating Hillary. And now there is an official investigation into charges that he lied to the FBI.

Or, maybe the guy you understand to be well educated and intelligent isn't fooled at all.

Or maybe he is so biased against those on the right that he cannot think straight on this subject.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
I spoke of the Democrats who have defended the dastardly acts of Obama's Justice Department, FBI and CIA.
I recall that. It's a tad more general. In the present, whatever we agree or disagree over relating to that, conservatives control:

Congress
The White House
The Supreme Court

And the last time I checked that was essentially all three branches of government. If your guys can't make that work and if you can't feel secure with that much clout I don't know what to say to you about anything...except football, of course.

Speaking of which, so far tonight's game is going about as I expected. Entering into the 3rd I see Denver is actually ahead by 3 pts. Early yet, but if it's close as that, or just under 5.5 for KC I'm 11-4 on the week, which is a nice rebound from last week's miserable break even.

Okay, back to tonight's action.

Or maybe he is so biased against those on the right that he cannot think straight on this subject.
A couple of problems with that. I'm a registered republican who gives the overwhelming majority of my votes to those candidates, both in the primaries and in the general. I consider myself a moderate independent, but here you have to declare to vote in our primaries and I have a number of good friends who are elected officials from the party and whom I support, especially in the judiciary.

Another problem is my support of both Gorsuch and, at the outset, the current nominee. He talked me out of that support. And while I don't share your aggressively negative impression, I've been entirely critical of how the left has handled their part in this.

Now if the only way you can see someone as being unbiased is if they agree with you and take one side stridently, then I'd say you need a new dictionary for Christmas.

:cheers:
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
this is not just about
Kavanaugh and abortion
this is about
ginsburg who is 85
breyer who is 80

baby killers are worried
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
I'm a registered republican who gives the overwhelming majority of my votes to those candidates, both in the primaries and in the general.

Did you vote for Trump?

Besides that, you were not really defending the actions of Obama's Justice Department, FBI and CIA in regard to their questionable actions about Hillary's emails?

That's good because the documents which the Justice Department will release shortly will reveal them as the crooks they are. Then you can say, "I told you so all the time."
 
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Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Yeah, that read about as objectively as if Lindsey Graham had been giving dictation. I'm going to take my larger response to a thread I'm creating in the politics section entitled Judging the Mitchell Report. LINK

I don't want to tie up chrys' thread any longer and he's been entirely gracious in allowing this large a sidebar already.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Did you vote for Trump?
God no. How did you miss that? I spent months trying to talk everyone out of voting for either of the scoundrels. Choosing between Trump and Clinton was like picking between contracting poison ivy and poison oak.

No, thanks.

Besides that, you were not really defending the actions of Obama's Justice Department, FBI and CIA in regard to their questionable actions about Hillary's emails?
I don't believe those things/charges are of a piece and would take a lot of time that doesn't really seem well spent to go over ground covered ad nauseam around here. It depends on the nature of the charges made in particular. I don't trust or go in for broad, vaguely conspiratorial brushwork.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
God no. How did you miss that? I spent months trying to talk everyone out of voting for either of the scoundrels. Choosing between Trump and Clinton was like picking between contracting poison ivy and poison oak.

No, thanks.

So even though you knew that either Hillary or Trump would be the next President you decided not to support the one person who could keep Hillary out of the White House?

It must not have bothered you very much that thousands of her emails, including ones which were classified, had ended up on the computer of Anthony Weiner.

You do know who he is, don't you?

And you do know that those emails were not secure and therefore foreign agents could find out what was on those emails and therefore have a treasure trove of info with which to blackmail her, don't you?

You might be a Republican but you don't act like one.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
So even though you knew that either Hillary or Trump would be the next President you decided not to support the one person who could keep Hillary out of the White House?
You could reverse that and it works as well. See, I said I found both undesirable. I've never pulled a party lever in my life and don't expect I ever will.

It must not have bothered you very much that thousands of her emails, including ones which were classified, had ended up on the computer of Anthony Weiner.
Anything that links to Weiner and his laptop is troubling for any number of reasons.

You do know who he is, don't you?
Sure. I'd hope most people would by now.

And you do know that those emails were not secure and therefore foreign agents could find out what was on those emails and therefore have a treasure trove of info with which to blackmail her, don't you?
I don't know how to be clearer on the point and the pointlessness of rehashing it than I was prior.

You might be a Republican but you don't act like one.
Apparently that would entail a lock step agreement with you, which is one problem the hard right has these days and why you eat your own (see: RINO) but shouldn't given how much you're going to need every sympathetic hand in short order. But for the record, as I've stated dozens of times by now, I consider myself a moderate independent. I register republican because most of the candidates I know and support on the local and state level are conservative republicans, are friends of mine and people I value, especially in the judiciary.
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Anything that links to Weiner and his laptop is troubling for any number of reasons.

So even though it troubled you it didn't trouble you enough to vote for the only person who could stop her from being President!

Perhaps you thought that if she got elected she would reform her ways?
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
So even though it troubled you it didn't trouble you enough to vote for the only person who could stop her from being President!
I found them both repulsive as candidates. Why this isn't sinking in I have no idea.

Perhaps you thought that if she got elected she would reform her ways?
I didn't expect either to be different, which is why I didn't vote for either of them and encouraged people to do likewise, after that fashion.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
You must have liked Hillary enough because you failed to vote for the only person who could keep her out of the White House.
You could say the same thing about Trump and flip them. In fact, I think I'll do that and add a third choice.

A)You must have liked Hillary enough because you failed to vote for the only person who could keep her out of the White House.

B)You must have liked Trump enough because you failed to vote for the only person who could keep him out of the White House.

C)
You must not have liked either of them so you didn't vote for either of them. :thumb:
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
was slavery settled law?
was segregation settled law?

lucky for us
we have lawyers to help us with these difficult questions
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
morning sickness
they get the morning memo
do you?
they are skyping again
they actually attacked the media
wow
 
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