chrysostom

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Finished the book. At the risk of oversimplification, Alinsky ends with his eventual understanding that mobilizing the middle class was a bigger opportunity than mobilizing the poor, and while he was optimistic such a thing would come about, he saw the equal possibility it wouldn't happen. And I don't think it ever did, at least not in the way he envisioned. More on that below. (Interestingly, he said it was a mistake for radicals to have rejected middle class values, because now he saw its potential due to its sheer size.) I think though, he overestimated the middle class's general unhappiness and underestimated their apathy. He'd divided society into Haves, Have Nots, and Have a Little, Want More, but maybe there was a fourth group, solidly in the large middle class he'd rejected to that point: Have Enough, That's All I Care About. Apathy is tough to shake.

But he made an observation that looks pretty much on target if you look at our current political polarity. When the middle class turns restive, unhappy with its current situation, looking for someone to blame, he anticipates they will

". . . . turn to an extreme chauvinism and become defenders of the "American" faith. Now they even develop rationalizations for a life of futility and frustration. 'It's the Red menace!' Now they are not only the most vociferous in their espousal of law and order but ripe victims for such as demagogic George Wallace, the John Birch Society, and the Red-menace perennials. Insecure in this fast-changing world, they cling to illusory fixed points - which are very real to them. Even conversation is charted toward fixing your position in the world; 'I don't want to argue with you, just tell me what our flag means to you?' or 'What do you think of those college punks who never worked a day in their lives?' . . . ."

So maybe - radical right-wing community organizers, starting with right-wing talk radio in the 90s, the Tea Party in the 2000s, and the MAGA Trump base of today, beat Alinsky at his own game.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Anyway, after reading Rules for Radicals, Saul Alinsky has been completely demystified for me. Knowledge is power. Now when a right-winger starts in again on the demonization of him I'll just laugh. He's not anything like they've painted him - and right-wingers use his tactics regularly and vigorously, the hypocrites.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Anyway, after reading Rules for Radicals, Saul Alinsky has been completely demystified for me. Knowledge is power. Now when a right-winger starts in again on the demonization of him I'll just laugh. He's not anything like they've painted him - and right-wingers use his tactics regularly and vigorously, the hypocrites.

I read a book and was shocked by this statement -

Thanks to abortion we have a business friendly court

In other words conservative republican judges are good for business. Do you realize without the abortion issue the republicans couldn't win a national election. Are they pro life to get my vote? Don't need to know that. I vote republican because the democrats kill babies. If you don't get that right, you can't get anything right.
so
How do you feel about climate change?
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
modernism
A Disease
affecting both the Democrats and our bishops. I'm sure our bishops support the Trump impeachment. They are all worried about climate change but not so much when it comes to abortion. Don't want to go down that rabbit hole. Do you think Francis agrees?
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annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Our bishops are not worried about Alinsky

I'm not interested in what the bishops are worried about. I'm interested in what you said about Alinsky:

marxism
A Greater Threat
than Islam which can be defeated militarily like it has been in the past. Marxism has infiltrated the Church in the form of modernism and can't be defeated militarily. Saul Alinsky, the modern day Marx, understood the Church would have to be infiltrated in order to bring about this utopian world. This along with homosexuality, a marriage made in hell, is threatening the Church like never before.
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Alinsky wasn't a modern day Marx, not by any stretch. He's the archetype of the community organizer, he was demonized because he was feared, feared because he showed people how to work together for the common good powered by their instinct to work for their own self-interest. He didn't organize where he wasn't invited, and he loved his country.

But it seems you want to stick with your inflated idea of his actual quite limited influence in the Church. He worked at the local level, in Chicago, where the Polish Catholics beat up the Irish Catholics and vice versa. He didn't organize the Vatican and he didn't subvert the universal Church, you might consider who and what actually deserve the blame for that.

Anyway. I guess there's nothing left to say so I'll let you get back to your regularly scheduled programming. I've got a busy day because

SCREEN-SHOT-2019-12-19-AT-3-35-49-AM.jpg
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
PS: There is something left to say. :)

Near the end of the book Alinsky delves into corporations and the military-industrial complex. I was in agreement on much if not most of what he had to say. It's especially resonant after finding out we've spent a trillion dollars and precious human life, military and civilian, for a 'war' in Afghanistan we shouldn't have started and won't win. In knowing how corporations put greed over all and how the current president ensured they'd continue paying less or nothing in taxes while cutting social services for the poor.

I want to thank you for the inspiration to read Rules for Radicals. It's a whole new world.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
I want to thank you for the inspiration to read Rules for Radicals.

You're welcome.
I would also like to help you find the real enemy.
It isn't the Church.
It isn't Trump or the Republicans
It is Islam and Communism
You may not see this
but
you do see feminism, socialism, homosexuality, and the decline of marriage, the family, and respect for life.
What are you looking for?
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
You're welcome.
I would also like to help you find the real enemy.
It isn't the Church.
It isn't Trump or the Republicans

It isn't Alinsky. Can you at least admit he might not be the grade A demon you thought? Do you ever admit to anything?

I never said the Church was the enemy. I just don't know what it actually means anymore.

It very well could be Trump and the Republicans.

It is Islam

From actual conquest? No. From terrorism? There could be another 9/11, but who's asking why that could be? From how many years of U.S. invasions and 'regime change' meddling and oil exploitation?

Communism
From Russia and China, yes. And yet - Republicans and conservatives look the other way or outright deny Trump's and the GOP's complicity with Putin.

feminism, socialism, homosexuality, and the decline of marriage, the family, and respect for life.
What are you looking for?

What about materialism, consumerism, right-wing authoritarianism?
 

God's Truth

New member
It isn't Alinsky. Can you at least admit he might not be the grade A demon you thought? Do you ever admit to anything?

I never said the Church was the enemy. I just don't know what it actually means anymore.

It very well could be Trump and the Republicans.



From actual conquest? No. From terrorism? There could be another 9/11, but who's asking why that could be? From how many years of U.S. invasions and 'regime change' meddling and oil exploitation?

From Russia and China, yes. And yet - Republicans and conservatives look the other way or outright deny Trump's and the GOP's complicity with Putin.



What about materialism, consumerism, right-wing authoritarianism?

The Democrats are going to help ring in the destruction of America if they get in power and do what they say they want to do.

Trump is stricter with who can come to America.
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
likes are easy
A Report
on requested likes. Three views, two visits, and zero likes on the blog. One like each on the two forums where I copy the blog post. This is discouraging. Don't understand how the blog works. The likes on the forums are appreciated. Thanks.
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