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  • #61
    Scottb - Thank you for your input! You recently joined TOL, welcome aboard!
    Last edited by 1Way; February 23rd, 2004, 12:04 AM.
    Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.

    Comment


    • #62
      Jefferson - Scottb - waiting on your responses...
      Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by 1Way

        Jefferson - Scottb - waiting on your responses...
        Mine is off, isn`t it?
        JESUS CHRIST IS NUMBER 1 listen to BOB ENYART http://www.kgov.com/

        Comment


        • #64
          scottb - Yep, yours was corrected, and so is mine. Did you see the debate video, or was your thumb's up just about the post correction? My previous post to yours was commenting about the Bob debates a Calvinist video tape.

          Bob did a wonderful job and tried to be as personable with Brian as Brian would allow, but Brian was typically indignant towards Bob, and even was called for mocking God’s sincerity concerning God’s feelings when His people go astray. And Brian did not even comment on that note either.

          All in all, most of their point counterpoint was done indirectly; the direct question answer point counterpoint dialogue aspect was not very productive. And I think that the highlight was Bob’s then three year old (!!!) phone debate questions, which were dumbfounding in more than just the Potter and the clay issue, and the fact that he asked Brian 3 separate and very pointed times, about the potter and the clay, and Brian would not touch the question in a direct fashion.

          Also, nothing Brian offered troubled or stumped Bob, well, the time when Brian mocked the idea that God was upset about Israel remaining unbelieving, Bob made a special notice of that and took offense at Brian’s derogatory remarks, he also said that attributing evil to God is blasphemous, and that since consistent Calvinism attributes everything to God’s will, Calvinism often borders on blasphemy.

          Bob mentioned many passages that Brian did not even touch, not because Brian assumed Bob’s presentation of them were correct, but because he probably didn’t have a cogent biblically defensible response. (!!!) Bob however was able to not directly respond to some of Brian’s bible expositions, because they presented no problem for his views.

          It is an excellent tape, but a bit advanced especially if you are not already familiar with Bob’s bible teachings. The Plot of the bible is a must “read”/”listen to” teaching resource. Or, if you aren’t too sure about Bob’s teachings, check out other things like “the NT support for the death penalty” or “divorce and remarriage”, or “is this man God” which is a tremendous example of Bob’s excellent teaching style and ability. I would have never thought I would benefit from such a commonly taught issue, yet Bob presents the case better than anyone I’ve ever heard of.
          Last edited by 1Way; February 23rd, 2004, 12:33 AM.
          Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by 1Way
            I agree that the debate over all was not very point-counterpoint, nor very personable, but to say that they were both guilty of talking past each other is a far cry from the truth. But even though Brian was a real let down, it still was a riveting exchange.
            It's true that Bob responded to more of Brian's points than the other way around but without both parties being forced (by the moderator if necessary) to respond to each other, the so-called "debate" comes to a screeching halt. I've heard a lot of debates that go back and forth until one party gets backed into a corner and pummeled unmercifully (eg. Enyart vrs. Zakath). This was a far cry from that. The moderator should have called Brian on the carpet for not responding to direct questions.
            WARNING: Graphic video here.

            Comment


            • #66
              Jefferson - Some debates are more point counterpoint, and others are more like hearing two separate monologues, yet the form of the debate is hardly the essence of what is debated. For example, sometimes Jesus debated His opponents by answering His game without answering their questions point counter point style, and He remained very interesting and convincing. And, sometimes He addressed their points head on, yet I see no better debate tactic in either case. The individual debate parties are usually the more responsible for their responsiveness.

              I think I understand about what you are saying about point counterpoint Q and A exchanges. In general I prefer them too, monologues are just not as interesting. But then again you can go too far that way and it can get bogged down in the arguing about who said what and when and why and so on. So there are up sides of the sort of debate tactics in the “Bob debates a Calvinist” video.

              I was there, it was a tremendous night, and there was no noticeable amount of personal camaraderie between Bob and Brian. I wish that Brian had arrived earlier, but he arrived at the last minuet so we extras had no time to get acquainted with him, and after the debate, which took a long time to do, it was late and he had to leave, but their parting disposition was somewhat strained (yet very late night too) though I think Bob did a good job of getting over the uneasy salutation bit, Brian did not have much at all to say, and did not seem to be in a very personable mood.

              Ultimately, even if you have a moderator acting more in the role of a facilitator, you the audience still has to judge for themselves how the debate faired. If there was more time for the debate, then perhaps John could have played a bit more of a master of ceremonies and encouraged the debaters towards a more Q & A dialogue.

              Thanks for bringing up this whole issue. I was really blessed by reviewing it again, and it was still shocking by the way Brian would dance around Bob’s questions, particularly the ones around the Calvinist’s infamous potter and the clay teaching.

              Other than my not getting much sleep, that was one of the most enjoyable weekends I have had in years and decades. It was almost like what I would imagine a TOL gathering of the minds would be like. Bible’s were opened, folks were discussing Christian doctrine, sometimes arguments got a bit carried away, but the level of care shown for our Lord despite our differences was immense. Bob really was a hit that weekend. What I loved was the personal exchanges that showed an intense desire for serving one another. A few of us like minded mid acts open viewers that showed up that weekend really turned some heads and made at least some of the well oiled wheels of tradition come screeching to a sudden halt!

              I think that much of our personal time together at John’s house was just as exciting and provocative as the debate was. John and his wife really put on a great show for all of us, and has a great bunch of local folks that hang out for the heresy club thing whatever he called it.

              Peace
              Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by 1Way

                scottb - Yep, yours was corrected, and so is mine. Did you see the debate video, or was your thumb's up just about the post correction? My previous post to yours was commenting about the Bob debates a Calvinist video tape.

                Bob did a wonderful job and tried to be as personable with Brian as Brian would allow, but Brian was typically indignant towards Bob, and even was called for mocking God’s sincerity concerning God’s feelings when His people go astray. And Brian did not even comment on that note either.

                All in all, most of their point counterpoint was done indirectly; the direct question answer point counterpoint dialogue aspect was not very productive. And I think that the highlight was Bob’s then three year old (!!!) phone debate questions, which were dumbfounding in more than just the Potter and the clay issue, and the fact that he asked Brian 3 separate and very pointed times, about the potter and the clay, and Brian would not touch the question in a direct fashion.

                Also, nothing Brian offered troubled or stumped Bob, well, the time when Brian mocked the idea that God was upset about Israel remaining unbelieving, Bob made a special notice of that and took offense at Brian’s derogatory remarks, he also said that attributing evil to God is blasphemous, and that since consistent Calvinism attributes everything to God’s will, Calvinism often borders on blasphemy.

                Bob mentioned many passages that Brian did not even touch, not because Brian assumed Bob’s presentation of them were correct, but because he probably didn’t have a cogent biblically defensible response. (!!!) Bob however was able to not directly respond to some of Brian’s bible expositions, because they presented no problem for his views.

                It is an excellent tape, but a bit advanced especially if you are not already familiar with Bob’s bible teachings. The Plot of the bible is a must “read”/”listen to” teaching resource. Or, if you aren’t too sure about Bob’s teachings, check out other things like “the NT support for the death penalty” or “divorce and remarriage”, or “is this man God” which is a tremendous example of Bob’s excellent teaching style and ability. I would have never thought I would benefit from such a commonly taught issue, yet Bob presents the case better than anyone I’ve ever heard of.
                No, I have not got that tape yet, but I do plan on getting that one, and many more. I have been listening to bob on and off now, for about 10, 11 year`s now. I have learned alot from him.
                JESUS CHRIST IS NUMBER 1 listen to BOB ENYART http://www.kgov.com/

                Comment


                • #68
                  scottb - Great. Warning, blunt question is about to be uttered. Are you saved? So, what about His bible teaching materials? I would "imagine" (although my imagination is not always accurate ) that if you were saved and had at least some of his bible teaching materials, then you would have a good reason to share about that too, but you did not. If you have been missing out on Bob's bible teaching materials all this time, then you have really been missing out the best of Bob's stuff. His conservative ideology is centered on an accurate view of scripture.
                  Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by 1Way

                    scottb - Great. Warning, blunt question is about to be uttered. Are you saved? So, what about His bible teaching materials? I would "imagine" (although my imagination is not always accurate ) that if you were saved and had at least some of his bible teaching materials, then you would have a good reason to share about that too, but you did not. If you have been missing out on Bob's bible teaching materials all this time, then you have really been missing out the best of Bob's stuff. His conservative ideology is centered on an accurate view of scripture.
                    OH yes, I`am saved, and no I do not have any of his teaching`s. I do have some material from other great teacher`s.
                    JESUS CHRIST IS NUMBER 1 listen to BOB ENYART http://www.kgov.com/

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Scottb - In my humble opinion, Bob's bible study resources are the best available.

                      If you are going to get into that stuff, excepting for a few topical references like the one’s I mentioned earlier, get “The Plot” first, it is the basis for his overall approach to bible study such that if you don’t have that as the foundation, then it may make understanding and accepting subsequent teachings much more difficult. Having a solid understanding of the overview of the whole bible is crucial to getting the many details correct!
                      Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        sabbath over with?

                        After hearing Bob say that we no longer need to observe the sabbath. This comes from his dispensational view of Scriptures. I would seriously re-think about getting any of his Bible studies.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: sabbath over with?

                          Originally posted by Nimrod

                          After hearing Bob say that we no longer need to observe the sabbath. This comes from his dispensational view of Scriptures. I would seriously re-think about getting any of his Bible studies.
                          You just broke it.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Re: sabbath over with?

                            Originally posted by Sozo

                            You just broke it.

                            How so? Or do you run and hide from direct questions.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Re: Re: sabbath over with?

                              Originally posted by Nimrod

                              How so? Or do you run and hide from direct questions.
                              That's not a very "holy" thing to say?

                              Are you working on your computer?

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Sozo can't answer a simple question

                                Originally posted by Sozo

                                That's not a very "holy" thing to say?

                                Are you working on your computer?
                                Sozo can't answer a simple question., is it too difficult?

                                So first you point out I am breaking the sabbath, then give no answer as to how I am doing so. Instead you run from answering a simple question and say I am speaking unholy. Oh brother!

                                Comment

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