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  • #16
    Originally posted by Fnord5
    Nice try.
    First, the US declaration if independence:
    That means that EVERYONE has the same rights, regardless. (Felons and non citizens excluded)OK, but same rights means marriage, a union between TWO people, the definition is two, not 9, 3 or 12.
    Well, that clearly isn't EVERYONE is it? (not to mention that only Polygamy and Bestiality are a unions between more - or less - than two people, all of the other potential marriage groups I listed are unions between two people i.e., incest, pedophile marriage)

    Didn't you say you studied logic in college?

    Second, I believe that the government should be kept as small as possible. I do not think that they have any place telling anyone who they can, or cannot marry.
    Operative word is WHO, animals are not a who, they are a thing. And, children are incapable of making that kind of decision. The incest thing is a matter of national health, an arena where the government does belong.
    So, you DO in fact believe that government can tell people who they CAN and CANNOT marry eh?

    Didn't you say you studied logic in college?

    Third, economic and social benefit for everyone. Lowered tax burden, reduced rates on insurance, the ability to act as a spouse in medical situations, and a reduces stigma attached to homosexuals. Not too sure what your point was in the parts you struck out, please elaborate.
    If these things apply towards homosexuals then there is no reason (in and of themselves) that they shouldn't apply to the other potential marriage groups I asked you about.

    Didn't you say you studied logic in college?

    So... you have been on TOL a total of what? A couple hours? And I think its rather obvious you weren't prepared for this place.

    Better luck in the future.
    Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
    TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

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    • #17
      This might be the funniest "Hello" thread ever!
      Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
      TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

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      • #18
        Ehh, not that I am trying to avoid owning up to faults in my argument, justification for what I believe in one case, can be contradictory to justification in another.
        You asked for reasons why I supported it, and I gave them. You then asked me if because I supported same sex marriage, I supported the other marriages. They may overlap on some points, but may be contradictory in others. Such is the nature of all belief.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Fnord5
          Hi there, I am quite new here, but I hope that I can quickly fit in. I am pro choice, pro gun, pro homosexual marriage rights, anti affirmative action, pro war in Iraq, I think fundamentalist Christians are on par with Islamic extremists.
          I'm surprised to see that set of beliefs together. Normally pro choice & pro homosexual marriage don't go with pro Iraq war, anti-affirmative action, and pro gun. Also, in a later post you say you want government to be as small as possible. What is the main reason you describe yourself as a "left winger"?

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Fnord5
            Ehh, not that I am trying to avoid owning up to faults in my argument, justification for what I believe in one case, can be contradictory to justification in another.
            You asked for reasons why I supported it, and I gave them. You then asked me if because I supported same sex marriage, I supported the other marriages. They may overlap on some points, but may be contradictory in others. Such is the nature of all belief.
            So then... lets take one statement at a time and analyze it.

            In defense of gay marriage you stated.....
            First, the US declaration if independence:
            That means that EVERYONE has the same rights, regardless. (Felons and non citizens excluded)
            We now know beyond any doubt that you DO NOT BELIEVE that EVERYONE has (or should have) the same rights.

            Will you admit that you need to (at very least) revise and or strike from the record your above defense of gay marriage?
            Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
            TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Knight
              So then... lets take one statement at a time and analyze it.

              In defense of gay marriage you stated.....We now know beyond any doubt that you DO NOT BELIEVE that EVERYONE has (or should have) the same rights.

              Will you admit that you need to (at very least) revise and or strike from the record your above defense of gay marriage?
              That is not my belief, that was a Justification for it.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by kmoney
                I'm surprised to see that set of beliefs together. Normally pro choice & pro homosexual marriage don't go with pro Iraq war, anti-affirmative action, and pro gun. Also, in a later post you say you want government to be as small as possible. What is the main reason you describe yourself as a "left winger"?
                Clicked the wrong one on accident.

                I am disappointed there is no "libertarian" or Anarchist option.

                Comment


                • #23
                  wasted post #1.

                  Originally posted by Fnord5
                  That is not my belief, that was a Justification for it.
                  No duh.

                  Lets try again....
                  Originally posted by Fnord5
                  Ehh, not that I am trying to avoid owning up to faults in my argument, justification for what I believe in one case, can be contradictory to justification in another.
                  You asked for reasons why I supported it, and I gave them. You then asked me if because I supported same sex marriage, I supported the other marriages. They may overlap on some points, but may be contradictory in others. Such is the nature of all belief.
                  So then... lets take one statement at a time and analyze it.

                  In defense of gay marriage you stated.....
                  First, the US declaration if independence:
                  That means that EVERYONE has the same rights, regardless. (Felons and non citizens excluded)
                  We now know beyond any doubt that you DO NOT BELIEVE that EVERYONE has (or should have) the same rights.

                  Will you admit that you need to (at very least) revise and or strike from the record your above defense of gay marriage?
                  Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
                  TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Knight
                    No duh.

                    Lets try again....
                    So then... lets take one statement at a time and analyze it.

                    In defense of gay marriage you stated.....We now know beyond any doubt that you DO NOT BELIEVE that EVERYONE has (or should have) the same rights.

                    Will you admit that you need to (at very least) revise and or strike from the record your above defense of gay marriage?
                    No, I actually had that covered. Polygamy is a felony, as is pedophilia and incest. The bestiality issue was rendered moot because marriage is between two people.
                    And, felons are excluded.
                    Next

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Fnord5
                      I abhor close minded people...
                      Okay mister "I majored in logic", in what way is the above quote not self-contradictory?

                      Also, I like to ask you to answer the following few questions...

                      Is there any such actual thing as a pervert?

                      If so, what does it mean to be a pervert and who gets to decide who is and is not a pervert?

                      Is it closed minded to call someone a pervert who either actively supports perversion or is in fact a pervert?

                      If the Declaration OF Independence said that being a homosexual was a perversion, would you agree with it?

                      Is it closed minded to call someone closed minded before figuring out (or even bothering to ask) what that person meant by what they said?

                      Resting in Him,
                      Clete

                      P.S. Hint: The answer to the last question is, "Yes".
                      sigpic
                      "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Fnord5
                        No, I actually had that covered. Polygamy is a felony, as is pedophilia and incest. The bestiality issue was rendered moot because marriage is between two people.
                        And, felons are excluded.
                        Next
                        FYI

                        Homosexuality was a felony, in fact it was a capital crime, when the Declaration of Independence was written.
                        sigpic
                        "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Clete
                          FYI

                          Homosexuality was a felony, in fact it was a capital crime, when the Declaration of Independence was written.
                          Operative word: was.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Fnord5
                            No, I actually had that covered. Polygamy is a felony, as is pedophilia and incest. The bestiality issue was rendered moot because marriage is between two people.
                            And, felons are excluded.
                            Next
                            You really are not that bright are you?

                            Currently gay marriage isn't legal! Yet you support it. In other words, you think the current laws should be over-turned to allow gay marriage, I therefore brought up OTHER EXAMPLES of illegal marital unions to see if your defense for gay marriage would hold up to logical scrutiny. You see, one could give the exact same defense for incestual or other illegal unions using your defense for gay marriage.


                            YES or NO?
                            Do you believe that in regard to marriage EVERYONE should have the same rights, regardless?

                            My advice for you.... don't come to a gun fight with a rubber knife.
                            Also be sure to.... Join TOL on Facebook | Follow TOL on Twitter
                            TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Clete
                              Okay mister "I majored in logic", in what way is the above quote not self-contradictory?
                              Stating that I dislike close minded people is not contradictory, Although I may dislike them, I still take into consideration what they say.


                              Originally posted by Clete
                              Is there any such actual thing as a pervert?

                              If so, what does it mean to be a pervert and who gets to decide who is and is not a pervert?

                              Is it closed minded to call someone a pervert who either actively supports perversion or is in fact a pervert?
                              Yes.
                              A pervert is someone who goes against social mores, which are defined by the society.
                              I would say that if defining that person as a pervert, no it is not. If done in an attempt to insult or marginalize them, yes, it is.
                              Originally posted by Clete
                              If the Declaration OF Independence said that being a homosexual was a perversion, would you agree with it?
                              I never said that homosexuality was not a perversion, just that they should be afforded the same rights as traditional marriage.
                              Originally posted by Clete
                              Is it closed minded to call someone closed minded before figuring out (or even bothering to ask) what that person meant by what they said?

                              Resting in Him,
                              Clete

                              P.S. Hint: The answer to the last question is, "Yes".
                              Ahh, but you see, I made that statement before anyone had said anything to me. Not really all that applicable to this situation.
                              A for effort though.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Knight
                                Currently gay marriage isn't legal!
                                It is not legislated one way or the other. The federal government has not made any laws regarding same sex marriage.

                                Maybe you should take your own advice.

                                Comment

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