Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What is "Crucified with Christ"? AKA the infamous Meat and Milk seals debate

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    In Romans, Christ has died, and have I died with Him?

    Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

    Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

    Romans 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Untellectual View Post
      In Romans, Christ has died, and have I died with Him?

      Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

      Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

      Romans 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
      Fine.

      There is nothing in you that should cause you to sin.

      Why does Christ sit as a purifier of His people?

      Why did Paul minister to believers if they are all dead and live entirely for Christ?

      Yes , our old man IS dead. We in Christ are new creatures.

      Why then this sinning in my ear from this board?

      LA
      My theology is that the elect of Israel became the scattered church among the nations, and when filled up with the full number of gentiles who believe to become one with them, then Christ will return and gather them, and God will then pour out His wrath on the unbelievers of both Jew and Gentile.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
        Fine.

        There is nothing in you that should cause you to sin.

        Why does Christ sit as a purifier of His people?

        Why did Paul minister to believers if they are all dead and live entirely for Christ?

        Yes , our old man IS dead. We in Christ are new creatures.

        Why then this sinning in my ear from this board?

        LA
        I'm not sure what your question is.

        Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

        Comment


        • #94
          chickenman;3025705]
          Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Romans 6:3


          Again, I am not claiming it was not already accomplished; I am claiming that we do not understand it all upon initial salvation, which is why we must grow in grace and in knowledge, in order to UNDERSTAND our standing as 'crucified in Christ'.


          Babes do not understand this, upon INITIAL salvation, for one MUST HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT IN ORDER TO COME TO THAT UNDERSTANDING.

          Please stop claiming things I never have said, or claimed.


          Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Romans 6:6
          Anyone that is not "the crucified man" has not been baptized into Christ. He is not saved.

          WE are saved, before we know or understand it...which is why Paul said, "henceforth"...to begin with. As we grow and mature; we learn to mortify the deeds of the body.



          Do you consider yourself to have "grow[n] and mature[d] into the crucified man", grace? Or are you waiting for that to happen?
          Yes, I have grown in grace and in knowledge to where I now understand what it is to be 'crucified with Christ'.

          I did NOT understand this, when I was initially saved, for salvation is a free gift, and does NOT REQUIRE ALOT OF KNOWLEDGE TO BE SAVED.

          Your teachings are gnostic, you deny the simple way a christian IS saved.


          You only seem to be interested in either clapping someone on the back if they agree with you, or rebuking someone if they disagree with you. I.e., in your mind, your theology and doctrine is what everyone else needs to aspire to.
          Wrong..we need to understand the gospel that DOES save, and then grow in grace and in knowledge that will bring us to the mature man.


          (crucified with Christ, not only in it's application as already accomplished by the blood of Christ, but understanding it with our heart/mind, and it can only be accomplished AFTER we are saved, and have the holy spirit to lead us to that understanding. You are confusing what is accomplished with what every believer must come to understand..and, IF you think you understood this, BEFORE YOU WERE SAVED, YOU ARE A HERETIC, BECAUSE IT CAN ONLY BE DISCERNED VIA THE HOLY SPIRIT...HOW MANY TIMES MUST I SAY IT?) The carnal man cannot hear the law of God/faith..or how it works...we are all carnal at the point of our salvation.


          But I hope that just this once you'll humble yourself to the simple and very clear truth of Romans 6 and realize that once someone is baptized into Christ, it is at that very point that he is this "crucified man" of whom you speak. It is at that very moment that he has risen with Christ and is perfect and righteous by virtue of being in Him. It is at that very moment that he is crucified with Christ, his life no longer his own, but Christ lives in Him. It is at that very moment that he is clothed with Christ, and he is hidden in Him. His old man is crucified; he does not work on crucifying him, striving to become a "crucified man" one day in the future.

          Again, I know it was already ACCOMPLISHED, BUT WE MUST GROW IN THE UNDERSTANDING OF GRACE, TO HAVE THIS UNDERSTANDING.

          YOU DO NOT HAVE THIS UNDERSTANDING IN ORDER TO BE SAVED.


          He can do absolutely nothing else to be made perfect in Him. He can desire, strive, and hope to be better as a man on earth. But he cannot be perfected in Christ not an ounce more than he is at that very moment.


          Paul would disagree with you, for he said, "grow in grace and in knowledge that is the essence that gives you the understanding of what being crucified in Christ means".

          I am arguing against the blatant error that we know this in order to be saved as you heretics proclaim.


          Denying the very milk, that without God we can know nothing..of the spiritual realities we are in Him. You think you get this knowledge in order to be saved and it is heresy.





          If he has to become a crucified man, after being saved, then that means he has to crucify Christ again. What a dangerous position to take.
          No, he has to come to understand what it means, so that he can never fall..or be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctine like YOU have...by following the various voices of men, that would teach you a lie that you knew this, in order to be saved. Heretics, LOL, no wonder Sozo agrees with you, he is in the same heresy.

          Knowledge puffs up, grace saves.

          GRACE...then teaches you to grow, and understand what crucified with Christ means...you did not understand this in order to gain salvation.....such nonsense.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by chickenman View Post
            It's funny: In the past, I would post on TOL that a person is saved when he believes that Christ died for his sins and rose again (example here). You would AMEN the statement (rightly so). Now, for some odd reason, I'm wrong and far from the gospel.

            I haven't changed in what I believe. So what does that mean?
            Then stop contradicting yourself.



            You just claimed that a man must know 'He is crucified with Christ, in order to be saved'.......

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
              I can follow what she is saying even if she does not say it exactly as I would.

              If you have been changing in your attitude, thinking, and doing, since you were first converted then you would have to agree with her.

              Clearly the position you hold with God through your being in Christ is one thing, and your overcoming in this life before your resurrection is another.

              Those whose lives are not changing for the better by the word of God, do not walk in salvation.

              Think about why David killed Goliath twice.

              and why those who are seated on thrones are beheaded by the word of God after their conversion. (Rev.20)

              To trust in a doctrine that you believe in the works of Christ, without the Spirit which led Him to His death (as a believer not a sinner) doing the same thing in you, is a mistake to rely upon.

              Those being led to death that the life of Christ might be manifest in them, do know about it, and those who trust in their doctrine and remain unchanging, are not following Christ.

              LA
              Thanks LA..I have to wonder if they even see their contradictions?

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Untellectual View Post
                I don't believe the verse is talking about progressive sanctification.

                Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
                It is both accomplished by HIS work, before you are saved, but then He gives you increase in knowledge to understand it.

                You do not have this understanding upon initial salvation...in other words this understanding is NOT WHAT SAVES YOU...IT IS WHAT SEALS YOU:

                John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

                They confuse receiving the Holy Spirit with having the Holy Spirit sealed, which is two different things.

                It is the meat that seals us or confirms us, so that we can no longer be tossed to and fro.

                We are all called to 'test' the spirits, to see if what we believe is truth, and we must do so by being a Berean, and rightly dividing the word of God, which can only be done, IF we hear HIS voice over men..

                We all have the freewill to place the voices of men, above and beyond HIS, which is why many are apostate.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by graceandpeace View Post
                  Then stop contradicting yourself.
                  The irony.
                  Originally posted by Interplanner
                  They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
                  Originally posted by Interplanner
                  You're too literal to get it.
                  Originally posted by Interplanner
                  The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by graceandpeace View Post
                    Your teachings are gnostic,
                    Who taught you that Randy is gnostic? Teachings of men?
                    Originally posted by Interplanner
                    They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
                    Originally posted by Interplanner
                    You're too literal to get it.
                    Originally posted by Interplanner
                    The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by chickenman View Post
                      One is either crucified with Christ...or not. You don't strive for it.
                      It is accomplished, or in other words, Jesus has done all that is necessary for us to come to the understanding of what it is...it is up to US to hear HIS voice over men.

                      Freewill....and, we must NOT quench the Holy Spirit, and hear men over Him..if and when we do, we fall into apostacy...and, that means we start believing 'another gospel' that Jesus, Paul, James, John, etc...warned us against.

                      Your gospel is contrary to sound doctrine.

                      Your gospel claims you understand these things in order to be saved; which is a lie out of the pits of hell.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Untellectual View Post
                        In Romans, Christ has died, and have I died with Him?

                        Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

                        Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

                        Romans 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
                        What do you have to KNOW to be saved?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by graceandpeace View Post
                          Your gospel is contrary to sound doctrine.

                          Your gospel claims you understand these things in order to be saved; which is a lie out of the pits of hell.
                          Made up; lies.
                          Originally posted by Interplanner
                          They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
                          Originally posted by Interplanner
                          You're too literal to get it.
                          Originally posted by Interplanner
                          The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
                            Fine.

                            There is nothing in you that should cause you to sin.

                            Why does Christ sit as a purifier of His people?

                            Why did Paul minister to believers if they are all dead and live entirely for Christ?

                            Yes , our old man IS dead. We in Christ are new creatures.

                            Why then this sinning in my ear from this board?

                            LA
                            Because they teach a gnostic gospel, that would dictate that you must KNOW THE MEAT IN ORDER TO BE SAVED..THEY NEED TO RETURN TO THE MILK, LIKE PAUL SAID.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by graceandpeace View Post
                              Because they teach a gnostic gospel, that would dictate that you must KNOW THE MEAT IN ORDER TO BE SAVED..THEY NEED TO RETURN TO THE MILK, LIKE PAUL SAID.
                              made up
                              Originally posted by Interplanner
                              They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
                              Originally posted by Interplanner
                              You're too literal to get it.
                              Originally posted by Interplanner
                              The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by SaulToPaul View Post
                                The irony.

                                .
                                .
                                .
                                .
                                Oh wait, I read that wrong.

                                We don't tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters exist.
                                They already know monsters exist.
                                We tell our children fairy tales so that they will know that monsters can be killed.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X