Philetus
New member
Thanks GR. good link. Not Sanders at his best, but good. Can you find the whole debate?
I wish Sanders had dealt with the Gen 50 question more. Here is my take:
Gen. 50:19 But Joseph said to them, "Don't be afraid. Am I in the place of God? 20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.
Here in Genesis 50 the intentions of human beings and the intentions of God are pitted against each other. Clearly the intentions of Joseph’s brothers were to harm him and make their own lives easier. They in fact had placed themselves on a par with God in disposing of their little brother and profiting by selling him into slavery and supposing to obliterate Joseph’s future as a free Israelite. Even Ruben’s self preserving intervention to spare Joseph’s life was an act of control and manipulation, not of deliverance.
God’s intentions are always good. His plans are to bless not to harm; plans to give us a future. Jer 29:11 But because the intentions of others are often contrary to God’s own intentions (destructive and sinful) God works with, through or even around the intentional actions of His creatures. I think this is evident over and over again in Joseph’s story, Potiphar’s wife, prison and release, the rise to power and so forth. By the time we get to Gen 50 the clash between God’s intention and those of opposing forces is clear and what Joseph recognizes is that no mater what harm has come to him from the evil intentions of others, he will not put himself in the place of God or play god with the lives of others. He will not repay evil for evil. If God is for Joseph, who can be against him? The list of those who were against Joseph is long, but God’s intentions win out in His servants lives, not because God is in meticulous control or even because the selling of Joseph into slavery was God’s original intention, but because NOTHING can prevent God from accomplishing His purposes. Who knows how God might have saved many lives had Joseph not been sold out by his brothers? Maybe Israel and all his sons could have gone to Egypt as one big happy family. Who knows how it might have happened? All we know is how it DID happen and what is now being done.
God can take the long way to accomplish His intentions when those intentions are challenged by the sinful actions of men. He will do in 40 years what should take no more than 4 weeks ... but that requires our cooperation and obedience. Sometimes God works with, sometimes through, sometimes around and sometimes in spite of our intentions and actions. The list of those whose intentions appose God’s is as long as human history. All have sinned. But, God is patient, faithful and will accomplish what He intends.
Jer 29:11 - For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
