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  • ARCHIVE: Open Theism part 2

    This thread will be a continuation of the thread ARCHIVE: Open Theism pt. 1

    Which at the time of this posting had 6,788 replies and almost 74,000 views! yet because of the size of the thread it had grown sluggish therefore we shut it down and opened part 2 here!

    Enjoy and lets get back to the discussion!

    The future.... is it completely settled in advance or open to an extent?
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  • #2
    Okay! I get the first official post on the new thread!

    Let's (re)start with a question...

    Did God hate Esau?
    Last edited by Clete; June 8th, 2007, 05:02 PM.
    sigpic
    "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Clete View Post
      Okay! I get the first official post on the new thread!

      Let's (re)start with a question...

      Did God hate Esau?
      "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated."
      My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
      Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
      Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
      Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
      No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
      Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

      ? Yep

      Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

      ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

      Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Lonster View Post
        "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated."
        Okay, I'll take that as a yes.

        Do you (you personally) hate your mother and father?

        Resting in Him,
        Clete
        sigpic
        "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Lonster View Post
          "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated."
          When did God hate Esau, before or after his birth?
          Galatians 5:13 ¶For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

          The borrower is slave to the linder. What makes this country think it is rich and free?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by elected4ever View Post
            When did God hate Esau, before or after his birth?
            After! See post #10
            Last edited by drbrumley; June 8th, 2007, 09:01 PM.
            The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by elected4ever View Post
              When did God hate Esau, before or after his birth?
              Rom 9:10 Not only that, but when Rebekah had conceived children by one man,22 our ancestor Isaac —
              Rom 9:11 even before they were born or had done anything good or bad (so that God's purpose in election would stand, not by works but by his calling) —
              Rom 9:12 it was said to her, "The older will serve the younger,"
              Rom 9:13 just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
              Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice with God? Absolutely not!
              Rom 9:15 For he says to Moses: "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

              Mal 1:2 GOD said, "I love you." You replied, "Really? How have you loved us?" "Look at history" (this is GOD's answer). "Look at how differently I've treated you, Jacob, from Esau: I loved Jacob
              Mal 1:3 and hated Esau. I reduced pretentious Esau to a molehill, turned his whole country into a ghost town."
              My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
              Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
              Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
              Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
              No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
              Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

              ? Yep

              Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

              ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

              Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Clete View Post
                Okay, I'll take that as a yes.

                Do you (you personally) hate your mother and father?

                Resting in Him,
                Clete
                Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
                "Rock on Emo dude!" OR something quite different, I.E:

                Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy.
                Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
                My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
                Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
                Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
                Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
                No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
                Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

                ? Yep

                Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

                ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

                Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Lonster et al,

                  I am fully aware of the Scripture passages, your quoting them does not answer the question.

                  I say that God did not hate Esau and no I definitely do not hate my parents.

                  There, now I've given straight forward answers, please reciprocate with simple yes or no answers.

                  Did God hate Esau? Yes or no?

                  Do you hate your parents? Yes or no?

                  Once we get an unequivocal answer, we can proceed to the actual meat of the debate. Let's not drag out the preliminaries unnecessarily.

                  Resting in Him,
                  Clete
                  sigpic
                  "The [open view] is an attempt to provide a more Biblically faithful, rationally coherent, and practically satisfying account of God and the divine-human relationship..." - Dr. John Sanders

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Clete View Post
                    Okay! I get the first official post on the new thread!

                    Let's (re)start with a question...

                    Did God hate Esau?
                    Did God actually hate Esau? Looking at Esau, I still see God's favor upon Him. So I say no. God did not hate Esau.
                    The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      An edit to post #6

                      God did not hate Esau until only after Esau had practiced the evil things and despised his heritage.

                      And even that is debatable being Isreal did many evil things in the site of our Lord, and God still will use them and call them His people. Just my reasoning. Take it or leave it.
                      The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Clete View Post
                        Lonster et al,

                        I am fully aware of the Scripture passages, your quoting them does not answer the question.

                        I say that God did not hate Esau and no I definitely do not hate my parents.

                        There, now I've given straight forward answers, please reciprocate with simple yes or no answers.

                        Did God hate Esau? Yes or no?

                        Do you hate your parents? Yes or no?


                        Once we get an unequivocal answer, we can proceed to the actual meat of the debate. Let's not drag out the preliminaries unnecessarily.

                        Resting in Him,
                        Clete
                        No, and No.
                        Marge: "Aren't you going to give him the last rites?"
                        Rev. Lovejoy: "That's Catholic, Marge - you might as well ask me to do a voodoo dance."



                        "Oh bother" said Pooh, as he chambered the next round.

                        Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Why do you guys go on with this open theim when I've slam dunked it a hundred times fold?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by baloney View Post
                            Why do you guys go on with this open theim when I've slam dunked it a hundred times fold?
                            Who are you?
                            Marge: "Aren't you going to give him the last rites?"
                            Rev. Lovejoy: "That's Catholic, Marge - you might as well ask me to do a voodoo dance."



                            "Oh bother" said Pooh, as he chambered the next round.

                            Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by baloney View Post
                              Why do you guys go on with this open theim when I've slam dunked it a hundred times fold?
                              Sure ya did.
                              The state — whatever its particular forms — always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

                              Comment

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