ARCHIVE: Free From Sin - 1 John

Jacob

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Period doesn't take into account all of Romans, does it?

Period doesn't take into account all of Romans, does it?

Lighthouse said:
Christ was the end of the law for righteousness, and we, as members of the Body of Christ, are not under the law, period. And not being under the law, we cannot transgress it. Christ already met the requirement, because we could not. It has been met, and therefore does not need to be met anymore.
Are you saying that even Christians have not the requirement of the Law fulfilled... because only Christ does? It's a trick question. I'm giving you a hint. The answer is in Romans. And elsewhere. And Matthew. Christ indeed fulfilled all righteousness. But, back to Romans... what of those who walk according to the flesh?

Shalom,

Jacob
 
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Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Something here that we'd better not miss

Something here that we'd better not miss

Romans 6:2 "How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" NASU

1 John 2:29 "If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him." NASU

1 John 3:6-10 "No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother." NASU

Sobering for me. I don't completely get it yet... but to not have sin and to not sin must be different things.

1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." NASU
1 John 1:10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us." NASU

1 John 2:3-4 "The one who says, 'I have come to know Him,' and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;" NASU

1 John 4:18-20 "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. We love, because He first loved us. If someone says, 'I love God,' and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen." NASU

John 8:42-47 "Jesus said to them, 'If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are ofyour father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.' " NASU

perhaps becoming a lone ranger may be a step to overcome with 7,000 others. following the crowd doesn't seem to work.

Shalom,

Jacob
 

elected4ever

New member
Poly said:
e4e, you're making a fool of yourself.

I'm embarrassed for you for being unwilling to talk about this reasonably and because much of the time you seem unable to express a clear thought while insulting those who are trying to be reasonable, going to great lengths to be very clear in their responses.

I pray you reconsider not only this absurd position you're taking on this but also what it means for brethren to come and reason together.
Be embarrassed for yourself, not for me. I guess God is absorb because I believe God and I am as He is in this world. Now, today. If you are not as God is you are not His child. I am righteous because God is righteous. I am not a sinner because God is not a sinner. You think this was accomplished by me? You got to be kidding. I am not of the flesh. I am of the Spirit. The flesh died and my life is in Christ. I cannot sin because I say so but because God said so.

If you can still sin then you are not of God. Every child of God is as I am, sinless. That goes for you, for knight and godrulz and everyone who is a born again child of God.

I guess you had rather continue in your little guilt trips for some reason. There is no joy in false guilt, but you do get a certain rush from your flesh from repenting of false guilt. The emotional high is sometimes overwhelming and the lows when you think you have blown it are really low. I bet most of your life has been spent on this roller coaster.

John said that he wrote the letter of 1John that your joy may be full but when you think that you have sinned or if you think that your salvation can be taken from you there is no way that you can have consistent joy in this life in the body.

I hate sin, Poly, and you know what, I bet you hate it too. You know why? Because sin opposes us just as it does God. Why else do you think the world hates us. The world wonts us to fit in with there system and we can't. The next best thing is to get us to believe we are as they are so we will not judge them and be complacent in there sin. They know we are righteous but they do not wont us to know it. Look at my signature verse and think about it's implications.
 

Daniel50

New member
"Oh, what a wretched man I am! Who will free me
from this body that is dominated by sin?" Rom. 7:24

If a person were to tell me he did not love sin in his carnal
mind, I would say with all mildness, "You do not speak the
truth!" If your carnal mind does not love sin . . .

Why do you think of it?

Why do you secretly indulge it in your imagination?

Why do you play with it?

Why do you seek to extract a devilish sweetness out of it?

O, what a mercy it would be, if there were not this
dreadful love of sin in our heart! This is the struggle
--that there should be this traitor in the camp; that
our carnal mind should be so devilish as to love that
which made the blessed Jesus die; as to love that
which crucified the Lord of glory, and to love it with
a vehement love!

"Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord!"
Romans 7:25
 

elected4ever

New member
Daniel50 said:
"Oh, what a wretched man I am! Who will free me
from this body that is dominated by sin?" Rom. 7:24

If a person were to tell me he did not love sin in his carnal
mind, I would say with all mildness, "You do not speak the
truth!" If your carnal mind does not love sin . . .

Why do you think of it?

Why do you secretly indulge it in your imagination?

Why do you play with it?

Why do you seek to extract a devilish sweetness out of it?

O, what a mercy it would be, if there were not this
dreadful love of sin in our heart! This is the struggle
--that there should be this traitor in the camp; that
our carnal mind should be so devilish as to love that
which made the blessed Jesus die; as to love that
which crucified the Lord of glory, and to love it with
a vehement love!

"Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord!"
Romans 7:25
Romans 7:15 *For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 *If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 *Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 *For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 *For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 *Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 *I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 *For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 *But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 *O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 *I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:1 *¶There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
2 *For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 *For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 *That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[/b]

Tell the whole story daniel50

Romans 8:9 *But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 *¶And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 *But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 *Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 *For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 *For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 *For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 *The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 *¶And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 *For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
 

Ecumenicist

New member
elected4ever said:
All who say they are sinners. God's children cannot sin so they are not sinners. Only sinners sin. So if you sin you are not of God. That simple. I am not the one who makes the choice for anyone to retain their sin. A person makes that choice for themselves. If you are a sinner I am just agreeing with you.

Then no one is saved. Thank God for Christ, through whom my sins are constantly
being healed and cleansed.

Sozophrenia is rampant...
 

elected4ever

New member
Dave Miller said:
Then no one is saved. Thank God for Christ, through whom my sins are constantly
being healed and cleansed.

Sozophrenia is rampant...
Why had you rather believe the worst about yourself instead of what God says about you? The scripture is quit clear. You cannot clam to be a sinner, which is the lie, and be a child of God. You are in the world, not of it. You have been made a new creature and you don't believe it. The old has pasted away and all has become new and you don't believe it. You had rather believe the lie that you are a sinner. You WERE a sinner. true enough but you are not what you were. You are what God made you to be in Christ Jesus. I only agree with your insistence to be a sinner when you are not to get you to see the absurdity of your position. If you wont to be a sinner then be one but don't clam what is not yours. If you are a sinner you need to be saved and if you trust in Christ for your salvation then clam the things in Christ and leave your sin behind.
 

Nineveh

Merely Christian
elected4ever said:
All who say they are sinners.

Not one Christ follower on this thread has claimed to be a sinner. There is a difference between being an unrepentant sinner and a Christ follower who grieves the Spirit by committing a sin.

God's children cannot sin so they are not sinners.

Half right, we aren't sinners. We now have Christ's righteousness, not our own.

Only sinners sin. So if you sin you are not of God.

So to answer the question, only you, Sozo and Lighthouse are Christians. Mainly because you refuse to call a sin a sin but instead want to call it by another name.

That simple. I am not the one who makes the choice for anyone to retain their sin.

No one has argued Christ followeres retain their sin. That's the thing about Grace and forgiveness. There is now no condemnation for those in Christ.

A person makes that choice for themselves. If you are a sinner I am just agreeing with you.

Labeling a Christ follower a sinner is either not understanding what has been said already on this thread or being willfully ignorant :(
 

elected4ever

New member
Nineveh said:
Not one Christ follower on this thread has claimed to be a sinner. There is a difference between being an unrepentant sinner and a Christ follower who grieves the Spirit by committing a sin.



Half right, we aren't sinners. We now have Christ's righteousness, not our own.



So to answer the question, only you, Sozo and Lighthouse are Christians. Mainly because you refuse to call a sin a sin but instead want to call it by another name.



No one has argued Christ followeres retain their sin. That's the thing about Grace and forgiveness. There is now no condemnation for those in Christ.



Labeling a Christ follower a sinner is either not understanding what has been said already on this thread or being willfully ignorant :(
I gather you are a Christ follower, right? Then answer this question.

Have you, since coming to Christ, committed a sin? I don't need to no what sin but just a sin. If you clam that you have then the following is true. it does not matter how big of how small. Christ will have to be crucified a second time to forgive you of your new sin. That being the case, if it is true that you committed a sin there is no longer any sacrifice for your or my sin for that matter. That means that you did not commit a sin and you deceive yourself into believing that you had or someone else deceived you into believing that. We cannot sin and remain uncondemned. God's justice will not allow it. Sin requires the death penalty. That is why Christ died. To suffer the death penalty for us. Christ was raised from the dead to give us life from the dead. We are no longer bound by the old but given the new life from the Father by His seed and have become a child of God with the same attributes of the Father Himself. We do not become like Jesus we are like Jesus. We are of the same seed. Simply because we are still in this earthly tabernacle called a body does not mean that the work has not been completed in us. Our hope is that at the end of days we shall be like Jesus because we shall see him as he is. Live like it and stop being defeated by Satan's lies.
 

Nineveh

Merely Christian
elected4ever said:
I gather you are a Christ follower, right? Then answer this question.

Yes I am. I repented and accepted Christ after being convicted by the Law.

Have you, since coming to Christ, committed a sin?

Yes. As my flesh has not yet been redeemed, and much like Paul, "For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing." Will Paul and I go to hell when we grieve/d the Spirit (sin)? No, because, "there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,.."

I don't need to no what sin but just a sin. If you clam that you have then the following is true. it does not matter how big of how small. Christ will have to be crucified a second time to forgive you of your new sin.

I think you are confusing dave's (and the RCC's) constant need to seek forgiveness instead of accepting God's Grace. Christ's work is sufficient once and for all.

That being the case,....

Since it isn't the case, I will stop my reply here and wait for your response.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
I just read the last page of this debate. It's the same old argument...

On one side we have those who claim that believers still do things like murder and commit adultery, but because they claim to identify with Christ, those acts do not make them sinners, nor are they sins. This appears to be a case of not wanting to call sin what it is: sin.

On the other side we have those who claim that believers still sin from time to time, but they are not sinners as a result, nor is there any condemnation because they are in Christ. This appears to be a case of believing they have a license to sin, though I can see that they do not think they have a license to sin, because they don't think they have a right to sin and should stop.

Both sides of the argument are in error.

Let's just use one sin as an example. Murder. If a person claims to be a believer, yet murders someone, he is not in reality a believer because murder is a sin and a murderer is condemned without exception. Repentance involves turning from being a murderer (the old man) and being reborn as someone that no longer murders (new creation in Christ). This is easily proved by the verse:

Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15​

Therefore, it is evident that 1) a person having eternal life (believer) cannot be a murderer, and 2) a person is a murderer and is condemned if they murder, even if they call themselves a believer.

He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 1 John 2:9​
Rebirth entails a new heart through the renewing of the holy spirit. God write his law in your heart (love), and you become as a little child. This is experiencial, not intellectual. One does not commit murder because they love their brother, not because they read a law that states, "thou shalt not murder." Once having undergone the rebirth, you are new creature (saint). The old (sinner) has passed away.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 1 John 3:7​
So one side we have those who claim unrighteousness is no longer unrighteousness because they are in Christ, and on the other side we have those that claim unrighteousness is still unrighteousness, but despite their doing unrighteousness, they have the righteousness of God. That is error, and I hope that a few can see it.

Know this:
He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 1 John 2:10​
No occassion to stumble, means NO OCCASSION TO STUMBLE, or the word of God is lie. Therefore, if you find that you are still stumbling, be willing to reconsider what you have believed.
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
elected4ever said:
Why had you rather believe the worst about yourself instead of what God says about you? The scripture is quit clear. You cannot clam to be a sinner, which is the lie, and be a child of God. You are in the world, not of it. You have been made a new creature and you don't believe it. The old has pasted away and all has become new and you don't believe it. You had rather believe the lie that you are a sinner. You WERE a sinner. true enough but you are not what you were. You are what God made you to be in Christ Jesus. I only agree with your insistence to be a sinner when you are not to get you to see the absurdity of your position. If you wont to be a sinner then be one but don't clam what is not yours. If you are a sinner you need to be saved and if you trust in Christ for your salvation then clam the things in Christ and leave your sin behind.


I think we all agree on this gist of this. We are saints, children of God, believers. We are not godless sinners/unbelievers. This does not mean that we cannot commit one sin between conversion and glorification. Just because we have a single, volitional lapse, does not return us to a godless, sinner status (it depends on how narrow you use the word 'sinner'...we could say one is a sinner because they committed a sin, but we can also use it more theologically for those who habitually sin as unregenerate unbelievers...your view does not make sense in light of the fact that adultery is a sin and believers commit adultery...King David was not 'born again', but the fundamental issues are universal and timeless).
 

Ecumenicist

New member
elected4ever said:
Why had you rather believe the worst about yourself instead of what God says about you? The scripture is quit clear. You cannot clam to be a sinner, which is the lie, and be a child of God. You are in the world, not of it. You have been made a new creature and you don't believe it. The old has pasted away and all has become new and you don't believe it. You had rather believe the lie that you are a sinner. You WERE a sinner. true enough but you are not what you were. You are what God made you to be in Christ Jesus. I only agree with your insistence to be a sinner when you are not to get you to see the absurdity of your position. If you wont to be a sinner then be one but don't clam what is not yours. If you are a sinner you need to be saved and if you trust in Christ for your salvation then clam the things in Christ and leave your sin behind.


Because it completely lacks humility. Because so many attrocities have been
committed and justified in the name of Christ through that very interpretation.
Because a great many of the world's woes, and individual neurosese, are due
to people not having the ability to admit that they are not perfect, they need help.
Even saved people need help from time to time.

If no one is so low that they cannot receive Christ's help, it is also true that no one
is so "perfect" that they no longer need Christ's saving Grace. I never want to
be in that position, equal with Christ. I am perfected through Christ, I am not
perfect.
 

elohiym

Well-known member
Dave Miller said:
I am perfected through Christ, I am not
perfect.
Dave,

What you are saying doesn't make sense. If Jesus makes you perfect, then you are perfect, otherwise Jesus isn't very effective. If he is in the process of perfecting you, then logically you will at some point be perfect, and can state you are perfect.

My feeling is that you are thinking of flesh perfection, but your flesh will never be perfect as long as it is mortal. Mortally of the flesh is evidence of sin, death being the wages of it. Take your eyes off the flesh, and know that in Christ, your spirit is perfect. If you walk in that spirit, you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh and can't stumble (as I proved in my last post).

Here is what the Bible states:

Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. Deuteronomy 18:13

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matthew 5:48

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Hebrews 10:14

Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you. 2 Corinthians 13:11

Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Philippians 3:15

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:17

We don't attain perfection; we are made perfect. It's a transformation entirely based on love. If you are falling short of the mark, it may mean that you don't understand salvation yet. Pray about that.
 

elected4ever

New member
elohiym said:
I just read the last page of this debate. It's the same old argument...

On one side we have those who claim that believers still do things like murder and commit adultery, but because they claim to identify with Christ, those acts do not make them sinners, nor are they sins. This appears to be a case of not wanting to call sin what it is: sin.
That is true if it were not for the fact that you are dead in the flesh today. Your flesh is not born of God and since it is dead it is no loner subject to that for which it has already been executed. Flesh is that life that you received from your earthly parents. It does not refer to your body but the life in the body. The life in the body is "sold" to sin and that is all it can do. To expect any thing else is unrealistic. Now that we see that all men are sinners by nature the only remedy is that the flesh die. When did the flesh die? The moment that the commandment came. All men abide in death and not life. If you live by the flesh you are dead. The same thing happened to us as happened to Adam. We died.

Romans 7:1 *¶Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 *For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 *So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 *Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5 *For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 *But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 *¶What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 *But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 *For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 *And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 *For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12 *Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 *Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 *¶For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 *For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 *If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 *Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 *For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 *For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 *Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 *I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 *For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 *But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 *O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 *I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


On the other side we have those who claim that believers still sin from time to time, but they are not sinners as a result, nor is there any condemnation because they are in Christ. This appears to be a case of believing they have a license to sin, though I can see that they do not think they have a license to sin, because they don't think they have a right to sin and should stop.
Here you make a gross error. God does not grant license to do evil. That is a blatantly false accusation. Whether we like it or not the flesh life that we received from our parents still exist with in us and we are strapped with it until our bodies die. I am sure that this is the sin that most refer too when they say that Christians sin. The problem with that thinking is that it is no longer us that sins. Paul says, "it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." This sin is not an act but a condition. A condition in which the life that we received from our earthly parents exist. That life is no longer our life and i do not clam any responsibility for what it does. It is no longer mine.

Let's just use one sin as an example. Murder. If a person claims to be a believer, yet murders someone, he is not in reality a believer because murder is a sin and a murderer is condemned without exception. Repentance involves turning from being a murderer (the old man) and being reborn as someone that no longer murders (new creation in Christ). This is easily proved by the verse:

Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15​

Therefore, it is evident that 1) a person having eternal life (believer) cannot be a murderer, and 2) a person is a murderer and is condemned if they murder, even if they call themselves a believer.

He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 1 John 2:9​
Rebirth entails a new heart through the renewing of the holy spirit. God write his law in your heart (love), and you become as a little child. This is experiencial, not intellectual. One does not commit murder because they love their brother, not because they read a law that states, "thou shalt not murder." Once having undergone the rebirth, you are new creature (saint). The old (sinner) has passed away.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 1 John 3:7​
I can accept that
So one side we have those who claim unrighteousness is no longer unrighteousness because they are in Christ,
Know this:
He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 1 John 2:10​
No occassion to stumble, means NO OCCASSION TO STUMBLE, or the word of God is lie. Therefore, if you find that you are still stumbling, be willing to reconsider what you have believed.
I have reconsidered it and have determined that you misapply scripture so you can look good in your own eyes and in the eyes of others. There is no occasion to stumble in the life of a believer. That has been removed from us.

Romans 8:1 *¶There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,
2 *For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 *For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 *That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 *For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 *For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 *Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 *So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 *But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 *¶And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 *But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1 John 3:9 *Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 *In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 John 4:17 *¶Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18 *There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19 *We love him, because he first loved us.

We do because we are and not to become. Rest assured if a person does not know Christ he does not love the brethren
 

godrulz

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
We are sinners because we sin; we do not sin because we are born sinners or inherit an Adamic nature. Sin is not a substance or a condition. Habitual, sinful choices will lead to a nature; a nature does not cause choices, the will does. This is why we are responsible and cannot blame it on Adam or the devil or our parents. You are personifying 'flesh' rather than seeing it as a metaphor for sin (volitional, selfishness, lawlessness, rebellion, disobedience, etc.). How is stealing or adultery or murder a condition or nature? Is is an act condemned by a holy God in His holy law. Flawed assumptions lead to flawed conclusions.

http://www.gospeltruth.net/menbornsinners/mbsindex.htm
 

elohiym

Well-known member
elected4ever said:
Here you make a gross error. God does not grant license to do evil. That is a blatantly false accusation.
Did you miss that I was describing what I considered error, not saying anyone has a license to sin? It is evident that some are arguing a position that can be contrued as a license to sin, and I don't agree with that postion. You are claiming I am making an error by pointing out an error.

elected4ever said:
I can accept that
But you don't accept that, because if you did then you would have agreed with my entire post, and not made the outrageous statements you have. And if you truly accept that, then you agree with the only argument I made in my post. I think you have seriously misread what I wrote, which you have done before. Big surprise.

elected4ever said:
I have reconsidered it and have determined that you misapply scripture so you can look good in your own eyes and in the eyes of others.
It boggles my mind how you came to that conclusion from what I posted. Think what you like.

elected4ever said:
There is no occasion to stumble in the life of a believer. That has been removed from us.
Yes, I know. That was my argument. I guess you missed that, too.

E4E, you have not refuted my argument, but actually agreed with it. Amazingly, you cannot even see that. :think:
 
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