Creation vs. Evolution

[The Barbarian]

The time has come to deceive no more. I cannot live with myself as long as I continue to perpetrate a lie. Despite the grave physical harm I will have put myself and my family in after I have finished this confessional, my conscience compels me to do the right thing.

You do realize that this is going to show up on the net as "another scientist admits that evolution is a fraud", don't you?

 

[Jose Fly]

You do realize that this is going to show up on the net as "another scientist admits that evolution is a fraud", don't you?

Yeah, creationists are that clueless, aren't they?

 

[2edgedsword]

Barbarian observes:
It's just the way God did things. No big deal for anyone until the early 1900s, when the Seventh-Day Adventists invented YE creationism.

I'm just disabusing you of some misconceptions. You're a victim only as long as you refuse to think for yourself.



You've bought into the modern revision of Genesis according to the Seventh-Day Adventists. That was never Christian belief.



Feel free how repeating an allegory in Exodus, changes it to a literal history. I know how much you've invested in this new doctrine, but it doesn't fit Scripture.

Read it and think for yourself. You aren't smarter than God, trust me.

I have been here 2 days friend and not much, if anything, you have stated fits scripture.

It is now time for you to so save yourself the effort and stop thinking for me and trying to save me from some fantasy error you are dreaming up I deluded under.

I am not really interested in you, your opinions or theories.

If that offends you go play with someone else or we can agree to disagree and move out smartly.

The Choice is yours.

 

[2edgedsword]

Because there's no conflict between the two. The Bible is about final causes, and science is about the efficient causes. God is the Author of both of those.



Of course. Your salvation doesn't depend on how you think creation happened. There are a lot of Christians like you, and and you'll all be saved.



We both love God and seek to serve Him. That's what matters. Take a look at the way Christians have understood creation at different points in our history with Him. Maybe you'll think differently, maybe you won't. But for me, it made me understand why it wasn't a salvation issue.

Yeah it was not a salvation issue for Charles Templeton either. He started out loving God and served him well, and was "blinded" by actually believing what the Bible said was true about creation.

It was at Princeton Theological Seminary, that Templeton encountered theistic evolutionists who "reasoned" with him the very same way you are reasoning with some of us.

You dance with devil all you want and the only one that will change is you.

 

[alwight]

Wizard

 

[The Barbarian]

Yeah it was not a salvation issue for Charles Templeton either. He started out loving God and served him well, and was "blinded" by actually believing what the Bible said was true about creation.

You mean he agreed with your new doctrine.

It was at Princeton Theological Seminary, that Templeton encountered theistic evolutionists who "reasoned" with him the very same way you are reasoning with some of us.

Accepting God's creation as it is, might be scary for you, but it will bring you closer to him.

You dance with devil all you want and the only one that will change is you.

How sad for you to see Christian belief as "dancing with the devil." May He grant you grace and understanding to help you accept His creation.

 

[The Barbarian]

How can you believe the Bible and what it says and the science book, and what it says??

They are completely compatible. You read scripture and get the "why" of creation. And His creation itself tells you the "how."

In philosophy, God is the final cause, the reason for creation, and the way He did it is an efficient cause, the immediate way it works.

Do you think God was not Bright enough to have made our first man, Adam, a young man, instead of a baby boy?

He could have done it as He pleased. This is what He chose to do. I assume it's the best way.

I don't mean to disagree with you, The Barbarian. Just where did you get the idea that God did it all in 6 days, and you don't have to believe that, but instead have a different version??

I go with the text. The rule is to assume it's literal, unless the text says that it's not. And as St. Augustine learned, after numerous attempts to justify it as a literal history, there is no way to logically accept it that way. Not condemning you for believing otherwise; it doesn't matter in the long run.

I hope we can agree to disagree here.

I will respectfully disagree with you, as I hope you will, with me.

I'm sure that you will write things that we agree with in future posts, so not to worry.

I'm pleased that we can disagree and remain friends.

Thanks for your expertise!!

May God Grant You Much Joy In Your Life!!

Thank you for your understanding and kind wishes. May God's blessings be on you also.

 

[everready]

Barbarian observes:
It's just the way God did things. No big deal for anyone until the early 1900s, when the Seventh-Day Adventists invented YE creationism.

I'm just disabusing you of some misconceptions. You're a victim only as long as you refuse to think for yourself.



You've bought into the modern revision of Genesis according to the Seventh-Day Adventists. That was never Christian belief.



Feel free how repeating an allegory in Exodus, changes it to a literal history. I know how much you've invested in this new doctrine, but it doesn't fit Scripture.

Read it and think for yourself. You aren't smarter than God, trust me.

You'd have a dickens of a time if the owners manual for your computer was written as an allegory, same way your having a dickens of a time believing Gods word "your owners manual"

everready

 

[The Barbarian]

You'd have a dickens of a time if the owners manual for your computer was written as an allegory

You've never owned an Altair, um?

same way your having a dickens of a time believing Gods word "your owners manual

It didn't even exist for the first Christians. They did all right. The Bible isn't God, and it's wrong to worship it. Keep in mind, I accept it as it is; you have made your modern revisions, not me.

 

[everready]

You've never owned an Altair, um?



It didn't even exist for the first Christians. They did all right. The Bible isn't God, and it's wrong to worship it. Keep in mind, I accept it as it is; you have made your modern revisions, not me.

The bible is just another book to you isn't it, do you prefer this?

“Science is a way of getting close to creation, to really getting intimate with creation, and it’s a way of getting intimate with the Creator,” he claimed. “It’s an act of worship.”

http://christiannews.net/2014/10/27...tion-argues-god-and-evolution-are-compatible/

We creationists have always believed Gods word from the instant we were born again, Gods word isn't just another book Barbarian and science isn't a platform for worship.


everready

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
The Bible isn't God, and it's wrong to worship it.

The bible is just another book to you isn't it

It's God's word. If you think that's "just another book", that would explain why you pick and chose what you want to believe from it, even as you make it an idol.

“Science is a way of getting close to creation, to really getting intimate with creation, and it’s a way of getting intimate with the Creator,” he claimed. “It’s an act of worship.”

It can be that way. Knowing more about His creation can be an epiphany in itself. Happens to me from time to time, when I'm out there alone in the middle of nature.

I feel sorry for those who can't connect Him with His creation.

We creationists have always believed Gods word from the instant we were born again

Except for Genesis, of course. The YE creationist revision is inconsistent with His word.

Gods word isn't just another book Barbarian

For me, it's God's word. For you, it's an idol.

and science isn't a platform for worship.

Well, let's see what God says...

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.

Turns out, you're wrong.

 

[everready]

Barbarian observes:
The Bible isn't God, and it's wrong to worship it.



It's God's word. If you think that's "just another book", that would explain why you pick and chose what you want to believe from it, even as you make it an idol.



It can be that way. Knowing more about His creation can be an epiphany in itself. Happens to me from time to time, when I'm out there alone in the middle of nature.

I feel sorry for those who can't connect Him with His creation.



Except for Genesis, of course. The YE creationist revision is inconsistent with His word.



For me, it's God's word. For you, it's an idol.



Well, let's see what God says...



Turns out, you're wrong.

You are denying his eternal power by denying he created heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them in 6 days.

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


everready

 

[Jonahdog]

You are denying his eternal power by denying he created heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them in 6 days.

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


everready

What matters whether your god created in 6 days 6000 years ago or your god allowed things to evolve? You need 6 day creation to show your god's power? Without that your god has none?

 

[everready]

What matters whether your god created in 6 days 6000 years ago or your god allowed things to evolve? You need 6 day creation to show your god's power? Without that your god has none?

Its a matter of faith Jonah, believing what he says, without support from outside sources, his word teaches us that without faith its impossible to please him.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

These arguments have been going on since the beginning when in the garden of Eden Satan asked Eve: hath God said.


everready

 

[The Barbarian]

You are denying his eternal power by denying he created heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them in 6 days.

You're denying his eternal power by insisting that He had to poof things into existence like a pagan god. He isn't part of nature; He created nature, and it works as He intended. As He says, he created the Earth and the earth brought forth life according to His will.

Notice that if you try to impose a literal revision of Genesis, one chapter says He used six days, and the other says He used one day.

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth:


Cafeteria Christians only accept the parts they like. If you set your pride aside and accept all of it, this will no longer trouble you.

 

[MichaelCadry]

You mean like this.....
*Earth was created covered in water...not a hot molten blob.

*Earth was created before the stars..... not billions of years later.

*Light was created for before the sun and stars existed.

*Days with evening and morning existed before the sun.

*Man was created from the dust of the ground...not a descendant of any previous creature.

*Woman was created from the rib of a man....created as an equal partner, and not a less highly evolved creature.

*Birds created before land animals...not a descendant of them.

*Animals were given every green plant for food.....not to rip other creatures apart while still alive.

*The great sea creatures were created on day 5.....they did not evolve from land creatures which where created the following day.

*Our universe was spoken into existence by a deliberate act.... not a quantum fluctuation.

*Our moon was placed at the appropriate distance from Earth....not the result of a giant asteroid colliding with earth.

*Death entered our world after man sinned.

That's the way God tells us He did it.

Dear 6days,

An excellent post, if I do say so myself. It embodies all that I believe in. It's not so hard to believe either. The Universe also was created before the Sun and Stars, and the host of the Universe. Heaven/the firmament, is the Universe. When the Universe was created, it was not created as a baby, but as a young Universe. Same as Adam. I could expound, but I don't have time right now. I've got 3 more mins. to go. I have to close the computer for a while. You're one of the best, 6days!! May God Wrap His Arms Around You!!

Michael

:guitar: :cheers: :angel: :angel: :singer: :cloud9:

 

[2edgedsword]

You're denying his eternal power by insisting that He had to poof things into existence like a pagan god. He isn't part of nature; He created nature, and it works as He intended. As He says, he created the Earth and the earth brought forth life according to His will.

Notice that if you try to impose a literal revision of Genesis, one chapter says He used six days, and the other says He used one day.

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth:


Cafeteria Christians only accept the parts they like. If you set your pride aside and accept all of it, this will no longer trouble you.

God did not poof anything, he SPOKE IT into being. You also are taking Gen 2.4 out of context, like most theistic evolutionists do.

Why dont you show us which day he created the heaven and the earth in Gen 1.

 

[6days]

You're denying his eternal power by insisting that He had to poof things into existence like a pagan god.

That is dishonest.
God says He created in 6 days each with morning and evening.
His Word tells us that there was a literal first man, who rebelled against God's command. That rebellion brought death, suffering and a separation from God.
Theistic evolutionists deny scripture insisting God used a cruel, clumsy, blundering process of death, pain and suffering. If death came before sin, as evolutionists claim, then death is not the punishment for sin...... so why did Jesus die for our sin?
Evolutionism is a rejection of God's Word.

 

[The Barbarian]

God did not poof anything, he SPOKE IT into being.

Nope. For example, the earth brought forth life. God created the world and then things came forth from previously created things to make the world we see today. He created it to do that.

You also are taking Gen 2.4 out of context

So Genesis 1 is literal, and Genesis 2 is only figurative? Your cafeteria Christianity is showing.

 

[StanJ]

Nope. For example, the earth brought forth life. God created the world and then things came forth from previously created things to make the world we see today. He created it to do that.

as you apparently have never read v25, I'll take this assertion for what it is...born out of ignorance.

So Genesis 1 is literal, and Genesis 2 is only figurative?

Most of Genesis is literal. It is a history book and when was the last time you read a history book that was figurative?