Clete's pick 4-5-05

[Clete]

As I come to a greater understanding of Calvinism, I struggle with the following concept:

If Christ died for the elect only, then those who were not chosen have been granted hell without any choice. Outside of a Calvinist realm, hell seems fair. Trust in God or trust in yourself. If you die trusting in yourself and forsaking God, you will remain apart from God. On the other hand, if you are living within the Calvinistic realm, eternal hell seems bizarre and unnecessarily cruel.

I am not rejecting God's sovereignty in its totality, but rather questioning that a sovereign God must and does control every action for His Glory. Cannot a sovereign God put the wheels in motion, knowing the final outcome, but still allowing choice? I know that God can, and has intervened to nudge us back on track, but does he control every human decision. If so, it seems like an awful waste of pain and suffering on the un-elect.

What would be the point in torturing the un-elect in hell for all eternity if they had no choice? Annihilation would have been a more appropriate alternative for a Calvinistic view of God.

Tread lightly, as I am exploring this issue and walking out my faith.

Excellent! :first:


Here's a link to the thread...
Calvinism and Hell

 

[the Sibbie]

:BRAVO: The first time I heard about God choosing some to be believers and other to be doomed to hell, I immediately rejected it. Why would God need to send his Son, if it was already determined who would accept and who would reject? Just seems like wasted torment. Common sense tells us a Calvinistic God is an unjust God.

God understands that love is not forcing someone into a fate they cannot change. If your spouse forced you to marry him/her, is that love?

 

[Lovejoy]

That was very well said! I too believe in a God that works "organically." I will have to follow more of this persons posts.

 

[Lighthouse]

Go Cheeseman, go!:bannana:

 

[Crow]

I just strolled over and repped Cheeseman. Good pick, Clete!

 

[Lighthouse]

I repped Cheeseman, too.

 

[elected4ever]

God does not choose who will go to heaven and who will go to hell. The individual makes that choice for himself.

 

[Clete]

God does not choose who will go to heaven and who will go to hell. The individual makes that choice for himself.

Has the choice that the individual makes been predestined by God before the foundation of the world?

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[elected4ever]

Has the choice that the individual makes been predestined by God before the foundation of the world?

Resting in Him,
Clete

No it has not been predestined

 

[Clete]

No it has not been predestined

Did God know in advance by some other means what choice the individual would make?

Resting in Him,
Clete

P.S. Congratulations on answering a question directly!

 

[elected4ever]

Did God know in advance by some other means what choice the individual would make?

Resting in Him,
Clete

P.S. Congratulations on answering a question directly!

The word is no but this new format will not allow me to answer in just one word. That sucks.

 

[elected4ever]

It is the way that was predestined. Not the who.

 

[Clete]

The word is no but this new format will not allow me to answer in just one word. That sucks.

Congratulations!!!!

You are now an Open Theist!

:BRAVO: :BRAVO: :BRAVO:

 

[Turbo]

...this new format will not allow me to answer in just one word. That sucks.

Actually, you can, so long as the word is long enough. Replies have to be at least three or four characters. (I forget which.)

 

[elected4ever]

Congratulations!!!!

You are now an Open Theist!

:BRAVO: :BRAVO: :BRAVO:

That is a joke :ha:

 

[Clete]

That is a joke :ha:

No it isn't. You are either lying or you are an Open Theist.

 

[elected4ever]

No it isn't. You are either lying or you are an Open Theist.

quit trying to put a handle on me son.

 

[Lighthouse]

e4e-
Do you believe that God knows everything that will ever happen, or that He does not know all the miniscule details of a non-existent future?

 

[elected4ever]

e4e-
Do you believe that God knows everything that will ever happen, or that He does not know all the minuscule details of a non-existent future?

I do not believe that God knows the non existent future but I do believe that he works ever thing toward His good pleasure.

 

[Lighthouse]

So you believe the future is open, or you hold to what is known as the open view. That is what classifies you as an open theist. But I understand if you would prefer not to be labeled by anything other than what God has made you.