SOTK
New member
Originally posted by GodismyJudge
Thank you for bearing with me, being a single parent can be very time consuming.
Please do not skim over these Scriptures, but read them word for word in the context that we are speaking of..
It is His Word, not mine
Firstly, I think we are getting hung up on semantics.
Titus 2:11-15 KJV
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; (ungodliness is Sin)
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
Titus 3:1-8 KJV
1 Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
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Concerning whether a Christian can sin or not, you should dig a little deeper and look at the Greek verb tenses in the book of First John.
Also I would urge one to get a Strong's Concordance and look up the word "Forgiveness", "Forgiven" Etc..
Look up every instance in the New Testament....
You will find that the greek word used in connection with being initally Born-Again, is the word 'Remit" or"Remission"
Remission is that -"Once for all" found in Hebrews.
There is a differance between "Remission" and "Forgiveness"
The word that means "Forgiven", means exactly that, and is used in connection with our ongoing Fellowship with the Lord AND with other members of The Body of Christ.
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Remission = Born-Again, a very child of God, a New Creation, In Christ Jesus- Brought into Relationship (Righteousness, Right-standing before God)
Galatians 4:9 KJV
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
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Forgivness is a word used in connection with our Fellowship with The Lord.And His Body.
We are members one with another.
That is what John is referring to...
1 John 1:5-10 KJV
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 2:1-6 KJV
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Skipping down a little for the sake of space...
1 John 2:9-11 KJV
9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
And yet a little further on down we see some more about what John actually means by "Abiding"...
We are talking Fellowship here, NOT Relationship.
1 John 2:24-29 KJV
24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, (then) ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
(Fruit, NOT works!)
Abiding is not automatic, It is something that we do in obedience to God, otherwise why would John exhort us to abide In Him?
"Abiding" has NOTHING to do with self-righteousness. It is fellowship- because we Love Him.
(We are to grow up- In Him!)
His Power, His Glory, His Grace!
1 John 4:14-21 KJV
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
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Concerning sin---
Hebrews 12:1-11 KJV
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Again- not works, but Fruit.
The result of being in rightstanding with God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(One could say the result of "Abiding- walking in the light as He is in the light.")
II Peter 1:5-11 KJV
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.(Walking in darkness as per First John)
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
There seems to be 2 or 3 passages used to dogmatically declare that a Christian cannot sin.
I did ask for 2 or 3 witnesses, however, one cannot ignore the rest of the New Testament in doing so.
Do we toss out all of the rest of the scriptures concerning the Christians conduct?
We would have a very small Bible indeed.
About the passage I quoted from Ephesians 4:17-32
We are to put on the new man....
Do you suppose that grieving the Holy Spirit is NOT a Sin?
If so, please explain.
Also...
Speaking of offending a weak brothers consience...
1 Corinthians 8:12 KJV
12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.
Pretty plain to me.
Awesome! :thumb:
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