Alright, not new, but returning

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ShadowScythe13

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In a sense, yes. God has written His morals into the heart of every man. That is why morals are so similar around the globe, they are all based on God's law written in our hearts whether we admit it or not.

and so we are back to where we began.

What you are saying is that the proof for God is that everyone has nearlythe same set of morals and values, regardless of place of birth.

And what i am saying is that the proof for the non-existance of God is that everyone has nearly the same set of morals and values, regardless of their Religion.

isnt it funny that no matter what god you believe in, you still believe that killing people is wrong (for the most part), being nice is good (for the most part), and that not cheating on your wife is a good thing (for the most part).

regardless of God, people have morals. im afraid that is proof of nothing.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
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and so we are back to where we began.

What you are saying is that the proof for God is that everyone has nearlythe same set of morals and values, regardless of place of birth.

And what i am saying is that the proof for the non-existance of God is that everyone has nearly the same set of morals and values, regardless of their Religion.

isnt it funny that no matter what god you believe in, you still believe that killing people is wrong (for the most part), being nice is good (for the most part), and that not cheating on your wife is a good thing (for the most part).

regardless of God, people have morals. im afraid that is proof of nothing.
I never offered it as proof of God. I offered it as the reason all the religions have the same morals. Remember, God came first and then He created men and men created religion. So that is why no matter what god you believe in, we have nearly the same morals, because GOD, the one and only, first put His morals on the hearts of men who created religion.
 

ShadowScythe13

New member
I never offered it as proof of God. I offered it as the reason all the religions have the same morals. Remember, God came first and then He created men and men created religion. So that is why no matter what god you believe in, we have nearly the same morals, because GOD, the one and only, first put His morals on the hearts of men who created religion.


ARGUMENT FROM ABSOLUTE MORAL STANDARDS
(1) If there are absolute moral standards, then God exists.
(2) Atheists say that there are no absolute moral standards.
(3) But that's because they don't want to admit to being sinners.
(4) Therefore, there are absolute moral standards.
(5) Therefore, God exists.


makes perfect sense to me

good luck finding absolute moral standards, by the way. people do things differently in different cultures. that is the definition of a culture.
 

ShadowScythe13

New member
this one also fits

ARGUMENT FROM CERTAIN KNOWLEDGE OF OBJECTIVE MORALS
(1) Every culture thinks murder is bad.
(2) They do so!
(3) And God forbids murder.
(4) And every culture thinks incest is bad, and God forbids incest.
(5) They do so, too!
(6) Therefore, God exists
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
this one also fits

ARGUMENT FROM CERTAIN KNOWLEDGE OF OBJECTIVE MORALS
(1) Every culture thinks murder is bad.
(2) They do so!
(3) And God forbids murder.
(4) And every culture thinks incest is bad, and God forbids incest.
(5) They do so, too!
(6) Therefore, God exists
Again, you are putting the cart before the horse. WHY do cultures think murder and incest are bad? Because God thinks they are bad and God wrote that it is bad on their hearts. It is important to understand why so many cultures see it as bad and the Christian Bible contains that explanation - God wrote His law on our hearts when He created us.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
From your signiture:
Who is more moral:

The person who does good because he is afraid of a punishment?
Or the person who does good because it is the right thing to do, regardless of punishment?
Who determines what is the right thing to do?
 

ShadowScythe13

New member
Maybe so many cultures see murder as bad because Society, as a whole, could not function if everyone went around killing random people?

Or maybe so many cultures see incest as bad because Society, as a whole, could not function if everyone went around sleeping with their children and creating a bunch of retarted children.

Dont you think that basic logic and intelligence serve us just as well as this "God" you keep talking of?

Your proof of God is no proof at all.



if no one told you that you shouldnt stick your hand in fire, would you know not to? no, of course not.

it only took the first time, or maybe one or two times after that, to figure it out: Stick your hand in fire = nasty burns on your hand.

no God is needed, no God is involved here, just basic human logic and reasoning.

If people are allowed to go around murdering people, then no one will be able to get anything useful done. useful stuff needed to be done. so society as a whole decided, through basic human logic and reasoning, that in order to get anywhere, we needed to not kill random people.

The point i am making is that there is no logic behind your arguments. Your proof for God is no proof at all. First you must prove, without reasonable doubt, that all cultures and civilizations had the same morals and values as our current society, something which just isnt true. Then you must prove that those same Morals and Values come directly from God, which is impossible to prove.


Oh, and my signature is aimed directly at those people who believe that Atheists and Agnostics can have no Morals. Those people who believe that we get our morals and values from God, and God alone. Those people who believe that people become Atheistic and Agnostic simply to serve their own selfish needs. in other words, it is aimed at the people on this website who, like you, are so centered on their own world-view as the correct world-view that they are blinded by their own arrogance.

but i am getting angry. i need to go to bed. be back tomorrow.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
Maybe so many cultures see murder as bad because Society, as a whole, could not function if everyone went around killing random people?

Or maybe so many cultures see incest as bad because Society, as a whole, could not function if everyone went around sleeping with their children and creating a bunch of retarted children.

Dont you think that basic logic and intelligence serve us just as well as this "God" you keep talking of?

Your proof of God is no proof at all.



if no one told you that you shouldnt stick your hand in fire, would you know not to? no, of course not.

it only took the first time, or maybe one or two times after that, to figure it out: Stick your hand in fire = nasty burns on your hand.

no God is needed, no God is involved here, just basic human logic and reasoning.

If people are allowed to go around murdering people, then no one will be able to get anything useful done. useful stuff needed to be done. so society as a whole decided, through basic human logic and reasoning, that in order to get anywhere, we needed to not kill random people.

The point i am making is that there is no logic behind your arguments. Your proof for God is no proof at all. First you must prove, without reasonable doubt, that all cultures and civilizations had the same morals and values as our current society, something which just isnt true. Then you must prove that those same Morals and Values come directly from God, which is impossible to prove.


Oh, and my signature is aimed directly at those people who believe that Atheists and Agnostics can have no Morals. Those people who believe that we get our morals and values from God, and God alone. Those people who believe that people become Atheistic and Agnostic simply to serve their own selfish needs. in other words, it is aimed at the people on this website who, like you, are so centered on their own world-view as the correct world-view that they are blinded by their own arrogance.

but i am getting angry. i need to go to bed. be back tomorrow.
You keep insisting that I am offering this as proof of God. I am not. I cannot prove God exists because if I could, I wouldn't need faith. All I am saying is that there is another reason why so many societies see the same thing as wrong. We tell our children not to stick their hands in the fire so that they can avoid that particular learning process. God did the dame thing for His children. He wrote His laws on our hearts so we wouldn't have to get burned learning them for ourselves. Just as we limit our children's actions out of a desire to protect them, so too does God limit our actions out of the same desire t protect us.
 
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