Age of fossil remains

[bob b]

one of the following has a good descrip of the methodology, bob. [the first one in the lineup here is that bastion of Christian right thinkcraft: the san francisco Chronicle ]
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/03/10/MN40985.DTL

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/05/0514_030514_neandertalDNA_2.html

though the following is a sectarian pub, the article cites a plethora of secular science... see the References at end of article for a bunch of sources
http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/descent.html

this concerns a German entrepreneurial venture to attack exactly your issue, Bob
http://today.reuters.com/stocks/QuoteCompanyNewsArticle.aspx?view=CN&symbol=&storyID=2006-07-20T190632Z_01_N20233729_RTRIDST_0_SCIENCE-NEANDERTHAL.XML&pageNumber=1&WTModLoc=InvArt-C1-ArticlePage1&sz=13

one more: hot off the Wired:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.07/caveman.html?pg=1&topic=caveman&topic_set=

my concern of course is that the Darwihidicists are so vehement in their opposition to ANY research that appears to crease the facade, the longer the data sits out there for examination, the more likely it is that the NEXT research project will be one of guile intended to undo the damage done. If the Cro-Mag/Modern hominid is now unplugged from N., then they're back to mere speculation about which ape we suddenly stepped away from [you know, that sudden "leap" that is now inserted into the theory].

I still think the panspermia guys have a leg up in this... if they could just find a few more planetary moons with water on them... and maybe some ancient signs of development. [i'm serious... not a jab at all.]

Thank you for the links zapp. It looks like the newly announced effort (Reuter's article) will try to overcome the uncertainties in the previous investigations.

"The advent of 454 Sequencing has enabled us to move forward with a project that was previously thought to be impossible," said Svante Paabo, Director of the Department of Evolutionary Anthropology at the Max Planck Institute.

Paabo was the first to find DNA in a Neanderthal leg bone, in 1997.

Neanderthals lived in Europe and the Near East until about 30,000 years ago, when Cro-Magnon people, the ancestors of modern humans, moved in.

Researchers have been trying to find out if Neanderthals are also our ancestors, or if they were an evolutionary dead end. Paabo's team was able to get a small amount of DNA from some bones that suggested they did not contribute to the gene pool of living people.

But such old bones do not yield much DNA, the researchers said.

"When an organism dies, its tissues are overrun by bacteria and fungi. Much of the DNA is simply destroyed, and the small amount remaining is broken into short pieces and chemically modified during the long period of fossil formation," the Institute said in a statement.

"This means that when scientists mine tiny samples of ancient bones for DNA, much of the DNA obtained is actually from contaminants such as bacteria, fungi, and even scientists who have previously handled the bones," it added.

"Over the last 20 years, Paabo's research group has developed methods for demonstrating the authenticity of ancient DNA results, as well as technical solutions to the problems of working with short, chemically-modified DNA fragments. Together with 454 Life Sciences they will now combine these methods with a novel high-throughput DNA sequencing that is ideally suited to analyze ancient DNA."

454 Life Sciences Corporation, a majority-owned subsidiary of CuraGen Corporation (CRGN.O: Quote, Profile, Research), said it would use samples from several Neanderthal skeletons, including a 45,000-year-old Croatian bone. They will compare these sequences to those already done on chimpanzees and humans by the publicly funded Human Genome Project.

 

[SUTG]

The odds are very very slim now that anyone can make a science case that Neanderthal gave rise to modern man.

...and even slimmer that a Creation Scientist can make a science case that the Christian God created man.

What it all boils down to is what methodology you use to get your answers. When science and a holy book disagree, you've got to make a choice.

 

[Johnny]

I would be interested in knowing how much Neanderthal DNA has actually been obtained and how it was extracted. Any links would be appreciated.

There is nothing like actually looking at the data instead of taking someone else's word for it.

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Update: I found an article from last week's Wall Street Journal

http://online.wsj.com/public/articl..._ main_tff_top

Classic.

 

[bob b]

Classic creationist.

My reason for posting a link to the article was that it described the new investigation that was also described in the Reuter's article referenced by zapp that I had not seen prior to my running across the Wall Street Journal article.

The new investigation is barely underway and results will not be published in journals for at least a number of years from now.

The important thing to note is that the basic issue is far from being definitively settled, one way or the other, at this point in time.

Stay tuned.