Trump holds up LGBT rainbow flag at rally

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
What do you mean, why?

Because there were other candidates, who not only had a real chance to win but who more closely represented a Christian worldview.

Only because we make it that way. I hear all the time from right-wing Christian talking heads that conservative Christians are an enormous voting bloc, and if only they would turn out and vote all together, they would shape the country. If that's even close to true, then conservative Christians should be able to make a real good run at getting a third party candidate into office.
And if there where no woods, bears would go to the bathroom on the sidewalk.

We're a long long way away from that fantacy land. What we would do in a perfect world has no bearing on what we can do in the world that exists.

But you don't. Instead you predictably and reliably vote for the Republican candidate, no matter who it is. And then you wonder why the GOP "establishment" takes your votes for granted.
This was already refuted. Repeating the argument is a waste of time.

I didn't make the system and the primary elections happen for a reason.



No you don't. If a more conservative candidate ran under say...the Constitution Party, you would still vote for the Republican, as you explained above.
Because such a vote is the practical equivalent of staying home and would make Clinton very happy.

Another argument I've already made which you've ignored by merely repeating what I've already refuted.

You're making my point for me.....the Republican Party can count on your loyalty and vote no matter who is on the ticket.
Wash, rinse, repeat. Wash, rince, repeat. Wash, rince, repeat.

Repeating yourself doesn't rebut my having refuted your argument. If you have nothing else then just stop. You don't have to be persuaded but don't waste everyone's time and insult our intelligence by pretending like I haven'y made an argument.


Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
next week, either trump or hillary will be elected

a hillary presidency will be worse for the country than a trump presidency

According to Trump supporters it would obviously. Hilary supporters would say the exact same thing about Trump and many people aren't enamoured with either candidate which is hardly surprising.
 

DavidK

New member
What we would do in a perfect world has no bearing on what we can do in the world that exists.

That flies in the face of the message of Jesus. We are to live according to the Kingdom that is coming, not according to expediency.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
I'll be 66 next month and my only Son is 40. He and his wife are voting for Hillary, I, on the other hand always vote Republican. I find it safer doing so. I'm a Conservative. In my opinion, the Republican party today isn't conservative enough but, what can you do? The Dems are too liberal for me. I can't even imagine voting for any of them, ever. Anyway, I asked my Son, "Why are you voting for Hillary?" The answer is, there is no answer. I asked him, "What has Hillary accomplished?" Suddenly, I hear a "Cricket Choir." He doesn't know how to answer those two simple questions. It's not because he's not intelligent, after all, he's a College Graduate and has an excellent job. He received a Degree in College and received EXCELLENT grades.

My opinion is, the liberal Colleges today are "Politically brainwashing" the students. They go in one way and come out another? It's almost as if we as parents should be looking for "Giant seed Pods in the Closet." (Reference to the Sci-Fi movie: "Invasion of the Body Snatchers") Only the Baby Boomers will understand my, using that movie as a reference. My Son grew up in a Christian home. His Mom is Conservative, as well. The same thing happened to my Sisters Son. (He's 30) He graduated from College and is a smart kid. However, he can't hold down a job, he's a know-it-all, and he enjoys a Hippy lifestyle. Hair way down past his shoulders, long beard, he loves to go to the "Burning Man rituals", dancing, climbing up in trees and sitting there contemplating the Universe, a devout Athiest, and doesn't believe in bodily hygiene. Deodorant for him is like Kryptonite to Superman or Garlic Cloves to a Vampire.

Two kids, a decade apart yet, one is productive in society and the other isn't. Yet, they both hold to liberal views. The common denominator is, They both went to College and Graduated successfully. Also, they're both very intelligent. However, my Nephew, the 30-year-old lacks common sense and smells up a room.

My Sister, a few years younger than me, has difficulty dealing with her Son (My Nephew) they both fight like Cats and Dogs. He and I get along great because he really respects me. My Sister and her Husband are well off and basically have to "Carry their Son Along" financially. My Son and I get along great, however, if I try and talk about religion or politics, he clam's up. I bought him a Bible about a year ago and I don't even know if he has taken it out of the shrinkwrap? When he was a little guy, he RAN up to the podium in the Church and received Christ as his Savior. At least I think he did. His Mom and I have our doubts now.

His Mom and I are very close friends however, we divorced in 1985. I never remarried. So, there you have it, a little BIO of my life, thus far. I have two Grandkids, a boy, and a girl. I fear for them if Hillary gets into office and the liberals take control. It appears that War might be closer than we can even imagine. On one side we have the Russians and Red Chinese, on the other side, we have North Korea and Iran. All of these potential enemies have Nuclear capabilities. No one can guarantee that one or more of these "Enemies" will decide to use those weapons? All it would take is another Pearl Harbor attack on American soil or a few shot down Jet fighters, and it's ON. The likelihood of it turning into a Nuclear exchange is within the realm of possibilities today.
 

DavidK

New member
Only because we make it that way. I hear all the time from right-wing Christian talking heads that conservative Christians are an enormous voting bloc, and if only they would turn out and vote all together, they would shape the country. If that's even close to true, then conservative Christians should be able to make a real good run at getting a third party candidate into office.

But you don't. Instead you predictably and reliably vote for the Republican candidate, no matter who it is. And then you wonder why the GOP "establishment" takes your votes for granted.

So true.

There's a lot of ridiculous shock at this election, as if Trump is some brand new phenomenon. He's not. He's just a more full expression of American politics as they have been for some time now.

Does no one remember when the evangelical community was all abuzz about a candidate that really seemed to fit a biblical world view, only to see evangelical leaders decide "he's not electable" and shift to a candidate that didn't really represent them?

Christians are seeing this election as a symptom of sickness in America, when we really should be looking at the sickness in the church. We've been worshiping at the idols of our fathers too long.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
That flies in the face of the message of Jesus. We are to live according to the Kingdom that is coming, not according to expediency.

The "Kingdom" of which you speak is The Millennial Kingdom which pertains to the House of Israel. The Body of Christ has its Kingdom in the Heavenlies.
 

Jose Fly

New member
Because there were other candidates, who not only had a real chance to win but who more closely represented a Christian worldview.

In what ways is Trump less closely aligned with a Christian worldview?

And if there where no woods, bears would go to the bathroom on the sidewalk.

We're a long long way away from that fantacy land. What we would do in a perfect world has no bearing on what we can do in the world that exists.

And I would submit that a big reason why that is a "fantasy" is the sort of extreme loyalty you, and other conservative Christians, show to the Republican Party. As long as they know they can count on your votes no matter what, they have no incentive to change.

I didn't make the system and the primary elections happen for a reason.

But you participate in that system, and the way in which you do so only furthers the problem.

Because such a vote is the practical equivalent of staying home and would make Clinton very happy.

Because you help make it that way.

Repeating yourself doesn't rebut my having refuted your argument. If you have nothing else then just stop. You don't have to be persuaded but don't waste everyone's time and insult our intelligence by pretending like I haven'y made an argument.

Then I hope you enjoy having your vote taken for granted by a Republican Party establishment that does little more than pander to your issues.
 

DavidK

New member
The "Kingdom" of which you speak is The Millennial Kingdom which pertains to the House of Israel. The Body of Christ has its Kingdom in the Heavenlies.

Okay, didn't mean to open up that dispensational can of worms.

Nevertheless, expediency isn't the message of scripture.
 

jeffblue101

New member
https://pjmedia.com/election/2016/1...integrity-within-the-conservative-movement/2/
Outside of the shrill voices of the alt-right, very few conservatives who are planning on voting for Trump are attempting to put lipstick on their pig. And that's the way they see it—Donald Trump is most definitely a pig, but he's their pig and they'd rather have their pig in power than the other side's pig.

And make no mistake, the other side has nominated a pig, too. The main difference is that the other side has almost uniformly fallen all over themselves in attempts to gussy up their pig.

In contrast with the Republicans, Democrats have unveiled their naked lust for power at the expense of even the pretense of integrity. And by "Democrats," I don't just mean those who want to call Washington, D.C. home. I also mean those who live in our neighborhoods, shop alongside of us, and engage us in conversations on our social media sites—the "Democrats on the street," so to speak.

It's next to impossible to deny that Hillary Clinton is one of the most corrupt candidates for POTUS ever. The Hillary campaign colluded with the DNC to steal the nomination from Bernie Sanders, for goodness' sake! That blatant dishonesty, however, hasn't stopped hordes of Bernie supporters from rolling their sleeves up and jumping in to help circle the tax-payer funded wagons around Hillary Clinton.
Maybe they're hoping to get a third house out of the deal, too.

That wagon circling has been made necessary by the continued release of emails. A steady stream of sordid details about the inner workings of the Hillary campaign and the Clintons in general has been roiling the general public for months now. Well, the general public minus Democrats. As opposed to the Republicans who recoil in disgust at each new revelation of Trump's pigginess, the Democrats have collectively stuck their heads in the mud while attempting to loudly mumble through dirt-filled mouths, "Nothing to see here!"

Except there is something to see here. And Democrats should be ashamed at their almost uniform dismissal of Hillary's transgressions. Starting with the revelation that she is incapable of handling classified information (and that's being generous towards her motives). It should end with the potential that Democrats have nominated a person to the presidency who is currently under a criminal investigation. But it hasn't and it won't end there because as has become increasingly obvious, things like integrity, selflessness, and basic morality are not high on the list of qualifications that liberals think about when choosing a president.

Thankfully, there has been a dissenter here or there, most notably John Kass at the Chicago Tribune. But the John Kasses of the Democratic Party world are so few and so far between as to only serve to highlight how quickly, wholeheartedly, and almost universally the Democrats have sold their souls to be a part of history made by an individual who personifies moral turpitude.

Thankfully, many Republicans continue to retain their integrity even as they prepare to vote for one of the two worst candidates for president in American history. Over and over, I see an acknowledgment of Trump's vileness even while calling for people to embrace the "lesser of two evils" arguments. Democrats, however, can't embrace that argument because they refuse to acknowledge that their candidate is evil. For me, the fight for and over integrity within the conservative movement bodes well for not only the future of conservatism, but also for the future of this country.
 

DavidK

New member
then write in Jesus :idunno:

Haven't decided what exactly to do yet. We have a seemingly true pro-life candidate on the ballot here in my state, but I need to read more about him before giving him my vote.

I'm sure someone will come along and tell me that's a vote for Hillary, too, but third party votes can add up to change in politics over the long term.
 

Jose Fly

New member
There's a lot of ridiculous shock at this election, as if Trump is some brand new phenomenon. He's not. He's just a more full expression of American politics as they have been for some time now.

Very true. A lot of my liberal friends are baffled at how I listen to, watch, and read far more right-wing political material than anything else. But those same people are constantly shocked at the sorts of things Trump has been saying in this campaign. That's when I get to step in and inform them that Trump isn't saying anything that right-wing talk radio hosts, Fox News, and other conservative media outlets haven't been saying for years now. It's like President Obama recently said at a campaign stop....Trump didn't invent or start any of this; he just took what was already there and slapped his name on it.

Does no one remember when the evangelical community was all abuzz about a candidate that really seemed to fit a biblical world view, only to see evangelical leaders decide "he's not electable" and shift to a candidate that didn't really represent them?

And it was the "Republican establishment" that said the same. Why? Because they understand that even if they move away from the more Christian candidate, evangelical Christians will still support and vote for their nominee.

And that's how you get played.
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Haven't decided what exactly to do yet. We have a seemingly true pro-life candidate on the ballot here in my state, but I need to read more about him before giving him my vote.

I'm sure someone will come along and tell me that's a vote for Hillary, too, but third party votes can add up to change in politics over the long term.


Are you that naive?
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
... third party votes can add up to change in politics over the long term.



i've heard this argument for a long time (i'm 57 and voted for GHWB instead of perot, as right as perot was about that giant sucking sound) and i haven't seen it yet


the only way change gets done is by working at the grassroots level

in fact, that's how we ended up with trump
 

DavidK

New member
Which part do you disagree with?

The part that assumes one is either conservative or liberal.

There's a reason people on both sides can be firmly convinced scripture supports them. God's wisdom defies the neat little spectrum of man.

When our Lord returns and sits down on His throne to rule, I expect all of us will have our political notions blown away by how He runs His kingdom.
 

DavidK

New member
[/I]

Are you that naive?

Are you?

i've heard this argument for a long time (i'm 57 and voted for GHWB instead of perot, as right as perot was about that giant sucking sound) and i haven't seen it yet


the only way change gets done is by working at the grassroots level

in fact, that's how we ended up with trump

You've never seen candidates reposition themselves on issues to try and absorb voters from a third party candidate who is getting some traction?
 
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