ECT Grace . . It is NOT God's "unmerited favor"

Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Danoh said:
Correct me if I'm off-base on this - it appears you are trying to solve for the valid concern described in Romans 6:15 via the means that Romans 6:14 not only relates is no longer in place, but given what it implies as to why it was in place when it was.
Click to expand...


I have to admit, you got me. I don't have a clue what you are asking or declaring what you think I was doing by my reply except make a point. Sorry.
 
D

Danoh

New member
Cross Reference said:
I have to admit, you got me. I don't have a clue what you are asking or declaring what you think I was doing by my reply except make a point. Sorry.
Click to expand...

My bad; let's see if we can sort this out piecemeal to our mutual understanding.

I mean; we can at least try to...

Point A: one aspect of what I said is that what appears to be your valid concern is Romans 6:15; is that correct?
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Danoh said:
My bad; let's see if we can sort this out piecemeal to our mutual understanding.

I mean; we can at least try to...

Point A: one aspect of what I said is that what appears to be your valid concern is Romans 6:15; is that correct?
Click to expand...

No. My concern is how you are ignoring the word "believe" or "believes" wherever mentioned, as being the requirement for merit God's grace.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
TO AMR: How is it you find mentioning where the word "grace" is used to be a, word study? I offered no opinion. Why not let it say what it says in each instance to understand there was always a condition place upon receiving it?

Grace is mentioned 39 times in the OT, !39 in the New. Wait till we get there.
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Servetustoutheou said:
Faith is the substance of things not seeable.

So then how does a blind man see the unseeable since he cannot see anything?

But lo and behold...God did open my eyes...and now I can see both the things of Spirit (in limited fashion) and the things of the cosmos (birds and bees, not doing their thingybobbers).
Click to expand...

I think you need a better understanding of the scriptures.
 
Totton Linnet

Totton Linnet

New member
Silver Subscriber
He compares man finding grace from man with the grace of God

CR truly believes that he has earned God's grace
 
Ask Mr. Religion

Ask Mr. Religion

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Cross Reference said:
TO AMR: How is it you find mentioning where the word "grace" is used to be a, word study? I offered no opinion. Why not let it say what it says in each instance to understand there was always a condition place upon receiving it?

Grace is mentioned 39 times in the OT, !39 in the New. Wait till we get there.
Click to expand...
No. To say grace always implies a condition is error. The Hebrew word is used 69 times in the OT, with at least 26 times appearing as favor, not grace. The Greek word appears in at least 119 verses in the NT having at least 128 occurrences.

You really do not know what you are doing.

AMR
 
Ask Mr. Religion

Ask Mr. Religion

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Ask Mr. Religion said:
Did you happen to read this link given you previously in one of my responses?

https://www.biblicaltraining.org/library/word-studies/how-to-study-your-bible/george-guthrie

See especially the part dealing with fallacies, of which you are massively guilty.

:AMR:

AMR
Click to expand...

"Massively Guilty", you say? #1. All I did was post, without comment, the number of times the word "grace" was mentioned in the OT. Where in that am I, as you claim I am, "massively guilty" of anything?

You submitted the word "favor"as a meaning for grace. I, too, believe for that.. That's good! However, is there a significant difference between the two words that might have a bearing on the overall meaning when using the word, "grace" instead of "favor" or "favor" instead of "grace"??

It would also be helpful if you could find a verse where the term "unmerited favor" or "unmerited grace" was used to explain God's actions in withholding either from a righteous man.. I know the AMP version will cite some passages wherever "grace" is mentioned, however. I am adhering to the KJV when asking that of you. The AMP is a lacking translation, as well the others of the coptic writings that are pure academic or biased in their translation away from Apostolic insight the Holy Spirit has provided for in the KJV.

Thank you.
____________________________________
"A. English-only fallacy

First of all is the English-only fallacy. What I mean by that is we get dependent on a specific English translation and we don't ever look underneath the surface of those words to see what they are saying here. And we just assume that the surface meaning the way we hear it in our culture is the right way to understand it. For instance, look at Philippians 2:5-8 just for a minute. Let's see if we have a couple of different translations of this passage. Let's read this passage in the King James translation.

"Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men."

"He made himself of no reputation." How do some of your other translations translate that phrase? "He made himself nothing." "He emptied himself." Now think about that just for a minute. If we just went with the King James at that point, "He made himself of no reputation." What does the emphasis seem to be just based on how we normally use that English language there? It gives the idea that he wasn't trying to build up fame, when really that's not at the heart of what's being said there.

Now that can happen not just with King James, but with any of our translations. If we don't dig a little bit deeper by, for example, comparing different translations to see where a difficult translation issue might be, we can end up putting a lot of stock in the way our translation reads in English. So the English-only fallacy would be one fallacy we want to avoid."
Click to expand...

My question to him would be, "what is the solution that, irrespective of accuracy, it nevertheless would remain one's opinion?" . . .And then that one rights his own commentary.
 
Ask Mr. Religion

Ask Mr. Religion

☞☞☞☞Presbyterian (PCA) &#9
Gold Subscriber
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Cross Reference said:
"Massively Guilty", you say? #1. All I did was post, without comment,
Click to expand...

No, your post included your incorrect summary.

Shall we sin more that grace may abound? So Paul asks and gives the answer. God's grace is unmerited favor. II Timothy 1:9 disagrees with your view.

The "grace" in Ephesians 2:8-9 clearly refers either to Christ, His righteousness, or His Atonement. That's why we can say we are saved BY grace. "Through faith" means simply "by means of." There is nothing saving in faith itself, but rather by/through the empty instrument of faith we can obtain, or "have access to" the "grace" in Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 5:2, "wherein we stand." Obviously we cannot define grace in the same way in all places. It's the same with the word "world," as its meaning varies according to the context.

AMR
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Ask Mr. Religion said:
No, your post included your incorrect summary.
Click to expand...

Not in the least, did it.

Shall we sin more that grace may abound? So Paul asks and gives the answer. God's grace is unmerited favor. II Timothy 1:9 disagrees with your view.
Click to expand...

Not hardly. You are proving my point elsewhere that you lack revelation in your understanding, preferring the coptic Greek.

Paul was addressing his "flock", explaining their responsibility after having received God's Life by faith, that their lives should not remain as they were before salvation came. Their bodies are now the Temple of God making the issue now about handling His Glory.

The "grace" in Ephesians 2:8-9 clearly refers either to Christ, His righteousness, or His Atonement. That's why we can say we are saved BY grace. "Through faith" means simply "by means of." There is nothing saving in faith itself, but rather by/through the empty instrument of faith we can obtain, or "have access to" the "grace" in Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 5:2, "wherein we stand." Obviously we cannot define grace in the same way in all places. It's the same with the word "world," as its meaning varies according to the context.

AMR
Click to expand...

I understand. What you don't grasp is God's grace is the venue through which and by faith the Life of God is 'dispensed' (Rom.5:2 KJV). Jesus was "full of grace and truth" [Life]. How was that except there was nothing in Him to censor. Nothing He needed to surrender of Himself; no unbelief. Who of us can say the same thing about ourselves that God's "grace venue" for His life to be poured into our soul is unobstructed? In this we can see that : ". . .unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Eph 4:7 (KJV) . . . . 'lest we think to highly of ourselves and become puffed up castaways'. In this as well might grace be at times the "silence of God", a point in time of proving when yet even more faith is needed. Jesus demonstrated that on more than one occasion, didn't He? For Him was His "Well" full because He knew the written of God..
Click to expand...
 
Cross Reference

Cross Reference

New member
Ask Mr. Religion said:
No, your post included your incorrect summary.

Shall we sin more that grace may abound? So Paul asks and gives the answer. God's grace is unmerited favor. II Timothy 1:9 disagrees with your view.

The "grace" in Ephesians 2:8-9 clearly refers either to Christ, His righteousness, or His Atonement. That's why we can say we are saved BY grace. "Through faith" means simply "by means of." There is nothing saving in faith itself, but rather by/through the empty instrument of faith we can obtain, or "have access to" the "grace" in Ephesians 2:8-9 and Romans 5:2, "wherein we stand." Obviously we cannot define grace in the same way in all places. It's the same with the word "world," as its meaning varies according to the context.

AMR
Click to expand...


OK. Can we not then say that "favor' and "grace" are one in the same?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top