From the same lump of clay.

T

Truster

New member
Equality for mankind
begins and ends
in one indisputable fact.

We are taken from
the same lump of clay.

In the reason for the taking
the making and shaping
there is no equality.

It is the choice and power
of the potter who forms.
Some as vessels of wrath
fitted for destruction
others as vessels of mercy
which He has prepared for glory.

Neither vessel has any
say in the matter.
None can say
why have you
made me thus?

From Romans 9:21
 
T

Truster

New member
Why do some insist that they have formed themselves?
Why do some insist that they have changed their appointment by being obedient or displaying sorrow?
Can a goat become a lamb?
Can a tare become wheat?

Maybe they take their doctrine from the sex transition movement.
Becoming trans-vessel.
Trans-obedient.
Trans-lamb.
or trans-wheat.


A vessel of wrath will end in wrath
A vessel of mercy will be shown mercy
And there is nothing that can change that fact.

I know a man who for the first 43 years of his life walked in darkness. Atheist in the world and without hope. Unbeknown to him he was a vessel of mercy and had alway been a vessel of mercy. When mercy came and filled him as a vessel it was then he discovered what he is.
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
Truster said:
Equality for mankind
begins and ends
in one indisputable fact.

We are taken from
the same lump of clay.

In the reason for the taking
the making and shaping
there is no equality.

It is the choice and power
of the potter who forms.
Some as vessels of wrath
fitted for destruction
others as vessels of mercy
which He has prepared for glory.

Neither vessel has any
say in the matter.
None can say
why have you
made me thus?

From Romans 9:21
Click to expand...

So if we have no say in the matter why will God judge us by our works in the final judgment? Is it just for show and theater or is there really a heaven to win and a hell to shun. This is why the wise bible student always looks at the bible in it's totality and not a few passages to the neglect of others.
 
Epoisses

Epoisses

New member
Truster said:
Why do some insist that they have formed themselves?
Why do some insist that they have changed their appointment by being obedient or displaying sorrow?
Can a goat become a lamb?
Can a tare become wheat?

Maybe they take their doctrine from the sex transition movement.
Becoming trans-vessel.
Trans-obedient.
Trans-lamb.
or trans-wheat.


A vessel of wrath will end in wrath
A vessel of mercy will be shown mercy
And there is nothing that can change that fact.

I know a man who for the first 43 years of his life walked in darkness. Atheist in the world and without hope. Unbeknown to him he was a vessel of mercy and had alway been a vessel of mercy. When mercy came and filled him as a vessel it was then he discovered what he is.
Click to expand...

The arguments of the Calvinist who boldly asserts that God is the author of sin which is heresy on so many levels. The bible teaches that everything God made originally was perfect so sin is the fault of the creation not the creator. God does take from the lump of fallen humanity and make one vessel to honor and one to dishonor. When we look at the famous example of Pharaoh there are verses that say God hardened his heart but there are others that say Pharaoh hardened his own heart Ex. 8:15; 8:32; 1Sam. 6:6.
 
T

Truster

New member
Epoisses said:
So if we have no say in the matter why will God judge us by our works in the final judgment? Is it just for show and theater or is there really a heaven to win and a hell to shun. This is why the wise bible student always looks at the bible in it's totality and not a few passages to the neglect of others.
Click to expand...

Please don't include me in the term "us" when it comes to The Judgement. Another has been judged guilty on my behalf and He has paid the redemption price and wiped out my sin.
 
T

Truster

New member
Epoisses said:
The arguments of the Calvinist who boldly asserts that God is the author of sin which is heresy on so many levels. The bible teaches that everything God made originally was perfect so sin is the fault of the creation not the creator. God does take from the lump of fallen humanity and make one vessel to honor and one to dishonor. When we look at the famous example of Pharaoh there are verses that say God hardened his heart but there are others that say Pharaoh hardened his own heart Ex. 8:15; 8:32; 1Sam. 6:6.
Click to expand...

I'm not a calvinist. I boldly assert what the anointing and the scriptures teach me. They don't teach you the same thing, obviously. Anyone can read the revealed will of the Father, but only the heirs of the pre-evangelism can benefit under the terms of the will. I have and am benefiting under the terms and each and every day brings new mercies and tokens of His goodness.
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Truster said:
Equality for mankind
begins and ends
in one indisputable fact.

We are taken from
the same lump of clay.

In the reason for the taking
the making and shaping
there is no equality.

It is the choice and power
of the potter who forms.
Some as vessels of wrath
fitted for destruction
others as vessels of mercy
which He has prepared for glory.

Neither vessel has any
say in the matter.
None can say
why have you
made me thus?

From Romans 9:21
Click to expand...

They are two vessels of spirit and you yourself are likened to a treasure in an "earthen vessel" which is the selfsame lump of clay, (every human being is his or her own selfsame lump of clay). Your first man is Esau man, the firstborn, it is allegory and typology; Isaac -vs- Ishmael, Jacob -vs- Esau, Moses -vs- Pharaoh, and so on and so on. The firstborn Esau man walks according to the belly of the flesh, (just as the serpent was cursed to do from the beginning), seeing all things according to the eyes and mind of the carnal mindset of the natural man. Esau man is a "son of perdition" and the "old man" nature of which Paul so often speaks. That one, (Esau man, the "old man", whom Elohim detests), is the vessel of spirit which is fitted to destruction, (each in his or her own appointed times). Elohim did not create everlasting fire for literal human beings but instead, as the Master says, for the devil and his angels, (which are what goats and tares represent in their respective parables). You are made this way according to the passage you have referenced from Paul; therefore part yourself asunder, for you have no right to question the One who made you twain. :chuckle:
 
T

Truster

New member
daqq said:
They are two vessels of spirit and you yourself are likened to a treasure in an "earthen vessel" which is the selfsame lump of clay, (every human being is his or her own selfsame lump of clay). Your first man is Esau man, the firstborn, it is allegory and typology; Isaac -vs- Ishmael, Jacob -vs- Esau, Moses -vs- Pharaoh, and so on and so on. The firstborn Esau man walks according to the belly of the flesh, (just as the serpent was cursed to do from the beginning), seeing all things according to the eyes and mind of the carnal mindset of the natural man. Esau man is a "son of perdition" and the "old man" nature of which Paul so often speaks. That one, (Esau man, the "old man", whom Elohim detests), is the vessel of spirit which is fitted for destruction, (each in his or her own appointed times). Elohim did not create everlasting fire for literal human beings but instead, as the Master says, for the devil and his angels, (which are what goats and tares represent in their respective parables). You are made this way according to the passage you have referenced from Paul; therefore part yourself asunder, for you have no right to question the One who made you twain. :chuckle:
Click to expand...

Elohim preserve us from blind guides. Amen.
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Truster said:
Elohim preserve us from blind guides. Amen.
Click to expand...

When your Esau man goes into the fire you will indeed thank Elohim.
And yet there will indeed be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
If indeed you are so blessed to see that day. :)
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Matthew 10:34-39
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword [machaira-sword is the sword of spiritual warfare].
35 For I am come to sever a man from his father, and the daughter from her mother, and the daughter in law from her mother in law.
36 And the enemies of a man shall be those of his own household [Micah 7:5-6, Deut 13:6-9].
37 The one loving father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and the one loving son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And the one not taking up his stake and following after me is not worthy of me.
39 The one finding his soul shall apollumi-destroy it: and the one apollumi-destroying his soul for my sake shall find it.
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Truster said:
I do not and never have recognised the spirit by which you speak as holy.
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I rest my case: you know not the Testimony of Messiah, and you prove it when you say, "I do not and never have recognised", which reveals that you are judging me against your own image of yourself and not by the scripture. You therefore play god in your mind, instead of judging uprightly by the scripture, which already tells you not to even judge lest you be judged.

Tsk. tsk. another blasphemer slits his own throat.
 
T

Truster

New member
daqq said:
I rest my case: you know not the Testimony of Messiah, and you prove it when you say, "I do not and never have recognised", which reveals that you are judging me against your own image of yourself and not by the scripture. You therefore play god in your mind, instead of judging uprightly by the scripture, which already tells you not to even judge lest you be judged.

Tsk. tsk. another blasphemer slits his own throat.
Click to expand...

Nice try, but he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
 
D

daqq

Well-known member
Truster said:
Nice try, but he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
Click to expand...

Now you are pitting scripture against scripture; showing that you use the scripture as a weapon against those you perceive to be your enemies. Even Paul tells you that your enemies are not flesh and blood, (Eph 6:12). If only you would judge yourself first and foremost you would not be judged, (1Cor 11:31, Luke 6:37, Mat 7:1-5, Rom 2:1). You have no excuse, O man, not even for confounding the different meanings for what it means to judge.
 
T

Truster

New member
daqq said:
Now you are pitting scripture against scripture; showing that you use the scripture as a weapon against those you perceive to be your enemies. Even Paul tells you that your enemies are not flesh and blood, (Eph 6:12). If only you would judge yourself first and foremost you would not be judged, (1Cor 11:31, Luke 6:37, Mat 7:1-5, Rom 2:1). You have no excuse, O man, not even for confounding the different meanings for what it means to judge.
Click to expand...

I utilize scripture against those who are enemies of the truth and the holy.
 
S

S-word

BANNED
Banned
Truster said:
Please don't include me in the term "us" when it comes to The Judgement. Another has been judged guilty on my behalf and He has paid the redemption price and wiped out my sin.
Click to expand...

The blood of Christ, does not save the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, for they shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. The death of the mind/spirit.

You are one of 'US' my friend, you must die the first death as all the descendants of Adam must, then go off into judgement, you will then either enter into rest within Christ, or you, the mind/spirit that survives the death of the body in which you, 'The Mind/spirit,' develops, will suffer terrible mental torment, day and night until the day of the great Judgement, when the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Many on this forum do not believe what you claim to be truth. Are you sure that you are not a liar, who is attempting to lead God's children away from the truths revealed by the Lord?
 
T

Truster

New member
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of Elohim. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Adonay Yah Shua, and by the Spirit of our Elohim.



What we have here is a case of you doing what you accuse me of. Shame on you.
 
S

S-word

BANNED
Banned
Truster said:
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of Elohim. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Adonay Yah Shua, and by the Spirit of our Elohim.

What we have here is a case of you doing what you accuse me of. Shame on you.
Click to expand...



Unlike yourself, I am not some pompous, pious and pretentious person, who claims that I have already been redeemed. I would not tempt Satan to ask God to allow him to put me to the test as he did with Job. For unlike Job, I doubt that I have the faith and strength to withstand such an onslaught.

God is my saviour and Jesus is my hope, and my hope is, that like Jesus, I might be able to win the victory over the ruler of this world and be invited to sit beside him in our Father's throne of Godhead to the creation.
 
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