What happened to the tribe of Dan? You listed Dan as one of the twelve sons, what happened?
"And you are complete in him" (Jesus Christ) Colossians 2:10
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
What happened to the tribe of Dan? You listed Dan as one of the twelve sons, what happened?
It's not my list, you idiot! I quoted the book of Revelation!
Okay, that's it. You are wasting my time. I have no doubt now that it is intentional. We are done.
Epoisses
New member
I'm talking to a child because you don't even know what the Judaizing heresy is! The Judaizing heresy is forcing believers to keep the law of Moses. The works of the law and far different than the fruits of the Spirit. Believers always produce fruit while unbelievers or those weak in faith trust in the works of the law. The works that James commands believers to have are works of faith or love.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Gal. 5:22
Epoisses
New member
Jews and Gentiles often met in house churches in the first century like the one led by Priscilla and Aquila in Rome. So the word for church is far different than the one for synagogue.
:wave:
I'm using YOUR OWN DEFINITION you dolt!
The Judaizing "heresy" is YOUR term. It is not a biblical one.
James (along with the elders of the Jerusalem church (i.e. the Twelve Apostles)) said that his followers were "zealous for the law".
Acts 21:18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
James, according to his own words which, by divine inspiration were preserved for us in scripture, clearly observed the Law of Moses, circumcised his children and walked "according to the customs".
And so I ask you again, is/was James a heretic?
Resting in Him,
Clete
Epoisses
New member
Google it, Moron! It so aptly describes your two gospel abomination.
Your Kingdom gospel is the Judaizing heresy!
I'm proving to you that it is not. You just refuse to see the point.
If you taught the book of James as the gospel today then you would indeed be teaching a heresy. But it was no heresy for James and his followers.
There! See! That wasn't so hard to figure out was it?
You know, it's a good thing this website isn't full up to it's gills with people who can't think themselves out of a wet paper bag and refuse to post more than two or three sentences at a time! That would really suck!
I'm so bored! Why do I put myself through this?
:yawn:
Epoisses
New member
James is just presenting the gospel from a different viewpoint and because it sounds so different than Paul it is dismissed by many. James is teaching that genuine believers produce fruit which is far different than your 'Kingdom gospel' aka the Judaizing heresy.
Did you read the Acts 21 quote?
No, you didn't.
No, that isn't what he's teaching! All you have to do is read it.
James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[d] works, and I will show you my faith by my[e] works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[f] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[g] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[d] works, and I will show you my faith by my[e] works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[f] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[g] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Read it!
Then read Paul...
Romans 4
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
They use the same Abraham to make OPPOSITE points and neither of them are talking about the fruit one produces after being saved. They are not talking about sanctification they are both talking about salvation!
Now, there's the plain reading of Scripture! Live with it - or don't. It's really just a question of exactly that. Are you willing to conform your doctrine to the plain reading of the text of scripture or would you rather use your doctrine as the lens through which you "interpret" away that plain meaning. That's the choice I've laid before you. The plain reading is simple and undeniable. What you do with it is up to you. You're the proverbial horse that I've led to water. Will you drink or not?
Resting in Him,
Clete
beameup
New member
The word is "assembly" [ekklēsia], nothing more - nothing less.
There were no organized Gentile churches with buildings in the 1st century.
ekklēsia G1577 - a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly || an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
Epoisses
New member
Those are works of love you RETARD!!! Why don't you read the whole chapter!!!
Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats? Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called? If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: James 2:5-8
Feeding and clothing the poor are acts of love.
This is what we always get from brain-damaged dispensationalists who proof-speck scripture because they know their two party/ two gospel doctrine is heresy. Just for those out there who would like to know - John Darby the father of modern dispensationalism was a Calvinist. Now anyone who has ever studied Calvinism knows that they believe the church is 'spiritual Israel' or the fulfillment of ancient or ethnic Israel. So why would a Calvinist give the poor dumb Arminians this kind of crap? To overthrow their faith - that's why! If the Jews are required to keep the law to be saved then it wont be long until the Gentiles are keeping it as well and this is exactly what we see today. Christians everywhere are abandoning the gospel to keep feasts and wear tzitzit and eat their special diets and keep the Sabbath days. This is directly attributable to dispensational dullards who are to stupid to see that they were fed spiritual poison by the Calvinists. Wake up before it's too late.
I've read every chapter of every book of the bible several times. Acts of love are the only kind that count or that have ever counted. They do not save you and are NOT required for righteousness sake. A Christian loves because he is righteous (grace) not in order to be righteous (law).
"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as theyself is the 2nd most important commandment of the law. It is like the first, Thou shalt love the Lord the God with all your heart.
You'd make a great Jew!
I agree but they have nothing whatsoever to do with whether you are saved, in this dispensation.
This sentence was a lie.
Do liars get to go to heaven in your doctrine? :think:
I wouldn't know, I've never knowingly read a single word Darby ever wrote.
Note also that I've not made a single argument in this thread that wasn't purely biblical. Didn't quote Darby once!
What Epi here is doing is called a "guilt by association fallacy". That's where you associate some position with an idea or person that seems to carry with it some sort of negative connotation in the hopes that the negative connotation will somehow stick to the position your associated with it. Liars who cannot argue rationally resort to it when they've been cornered or have, for whatever reason, run out of substantive arguments to make.
He continues the fallacy....
This is false. There is no 'spiritual Israel' distinctive within the Calvinist paradigm. It may be a common belief among Calvinists but it is not a distinctive of Calvinist doctrine. Even if it were, it wouldn't prove it false, by the way. That's the reason "guilt by association" is a logical fallacy.
Do you have ANY evidence that Darby's doctrine was intended as a covert attempt to shipwreck the faith of his doctrinal apponents?
No!
This is just a ridiculous conspiracy theory!
Once again, even if it were true, it wouldn't touch my doctrine at all.
Jews are not required to keep the Law today. Today there is no Jew or Gentile.
Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with what Dispensationalism teaches before freaking out so badly, proposing wild conspiracy theories and such.
How can it be dispensational teaching that is to blame for people doing the opposite of what it teaches?
No Mid-Acts Dispensationalist would ever keep feasts or any Sabbath days or anything else associated with the Law! That's the whole point!
Resting in Him,
Clete
Epoisses
New member
Covenant theology (also known as Covenantalism, Federal theology, or Federalism) is a Calvinist conceptual overview and interpretive framework for understanding the overall flow of the Bible. It uses the theological concept of a covenant as an organizing principle for Christian theology. The standard form of covenant theology views the history of God's dealings with mankind, from Creation to Fall to Redemption to Consummation, under the framework of three overarching theological covenants: of redemption, works, and grace.
These three covenants are called theological because, though not explicitly presented as such in the Bible, they are thought of as theologically implicit, describing and summarizing the wealth of Scriptural data. Historical Reformed systems of thought treat covenant theology not merely as a point of doctrine or as a central dogma, but as the structure by which the biblical text organizes itself.
As a framework for biblical interpretation, covenant theology stands in contrast to dispensationalism in regard to the relationship between the Old Covenant (with national Israel) and the New Covenant (with the house of Israel (Jeremiah 31:31) in Christ's blood). That such a framework exists appears at least feasible, since from New Testament times the Bible of Israel has been known as the Old Testament (i.e., Covenant; see 2 Cor 3:14 [NRSV], "they [Jews] hear the reading of the old covenant"), in contrast to the Christian addition which has become known as the New Testament (or Covenant). Detractors of covenant theology often refer to it as "supersessionism"[citation needed] or as "replacement theology"[citation needed], due to the perception that it teaches that God has abandoned the promises made to the Jews and has replaced the Jews with Christians as his chosen people on the earth. Covenant theologians deny that God has abandoned his promises to Israel, but see the fulfillment of the promises to Israel in the person and the work of the Messiah, Jesus of Nazareth, who established the church in organic continuity with Israel, not as a separate replacement entity. Many covenant theologians have also seen a distinct future promise of gracious restoration for unregenerate Israel. - per wikipedia as a neutral source
Many of the thousand-plus people who attended Revive 2013, a religious conference held at the Dallas Sheraton last June, wear tzitzit. Many keep kosher and observe the Sabbath and Jewish holidays. Some of the men have beards and peyos. Some have even undergone adult circumcision and/or have circumcised their children. They learn Hebrew, Chumash, even Talmud, and travel whenever they can to Israel. All of them truly, deeply love Hashem.
Yet I’m fairly certain I was the only Jewish person there. Revive is an annual gathering for followers of Hebrew Roots, a movement of—for lack of a better term—Torah-observant gentiles. These are non-Jews who have no intention of converting to Judaism yet follow laws, customs, beliefs, and practices commonly associated with Judaism. And while they do believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and the messiah—though in these circles he goes exclusively by his Hebrew name, Yeshua—they are emphatically not Christian. They do not celebrate Christmas or Easter. They do celebrate Passover and Sukkot. They do not display, either in their homes or as jewelry, crosses or other traditional Christian symbols. They do, however, wear Stars of David and post mezuzahs on their doors.
The movement’s central belief is that the Torah is still binding—that God, or Yahweh, or Hashem, did not intend for Yeshua’s appearance to render irrelevant the lessons of the Old Testament, whose rules and instructions remain valid. The Brit Chadasha, or New Testament, which most Christians believe superseded the Torah, is understood as a sort of extension of the Torah. Followers of Hebrew Roots believe that Christian practice has been, over the last two millennia, corrupted by pagan influences and like to say that they’re aiming for a pure, first-century version of their religion. In other words, they want to understand and observe the Torah the way they believe their messiah Yeshua did. Words like “restoration,” “revive,” “roots,” and “renew” are used a lot.
It’s impossible to quantify the number of Hebrew Roots followers worldwide, though I was given a range of estimates that ran from 200,000 to 300,000, most of whom have joined in the past 15 years. But the movement’s theology and praxis vary from ministry to ministry and person to person; what, exactly, Hebrew Roots is is still being worked out. Right now it encompasses a diverse swath of congregations and ministries with diverse beliefs and practices. What you’re supposed to do, when you’re supposed to do it, what you’re not allowed to do—these are the sorts of issues followers and ministries are beginning to consider. On some level, these questions are about religious identity: How “Jewish” do they want to be? Or, put another way, how un-Christian? source - Tablet magazine 2014