Your kidding right, he took his faith (an action) to it's full potential when he was sacrificing his son. He probably would have rather sacrificed himself (surrendered) than his son. So his surrender was deeper than even God requires from us.
What is "Faith alone ?"
- Thread starter Faither
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Your kidding right, he took his faith (an action) to it's full potential when he was sacrificing his son. He probably would have rather sacrificed himself (surrendered) than his son. So his surrender was deeper than even God requires from us.
Just got to be careful how you convey your understanding of being obedient. In the NT it tells us to surrender our lives continually to Him , if we do that we are being obedient.
God's Truth
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His faith was made perfect, alive , with what he did.
Ok , look at it as if you were on a battle field. Your side has been over run and you need to make a decision.
You could rebel against your capture and perish . or you could surrender to them to be their slave. I slave that has no rights to their life anymore.
Yes , at that point your being obedient but only because they have their foot on your neck. Surrender is different. You submitt to someone to be their slave , their property, to do to you whatever they tell you and thats what i understand Christ requires of us. (which Christ is when where not in Him)
As for those who think Faithing or pisteuo is "believing" , same scenario , if an enemy is trying to overrun us (which Christ is when where not in Him) what am i going to say to myself , i "believe" i might become a slave ? Right , it doesn't make any sense. Thats because believing is only a part of NT saving faith . Taken on its own is error.
what is your point?
God's Truth
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Saving faith, according to the Bible is faith with obedience. Faith without obedience is dead. See James 2:14, 17, 20, 22, and 24.
Ask Mr. Religion
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The church militant got it all wrong? Chronological Snobbery!
The church militant got it all wrong? Chronological Snobbery!
Not a day passes on internet discussion sites where these sort of facile arguments are made, by the poorly equipped budding theologian who assumes those that have come before us have not grappled with such arguments more thoroughly advanced and wrestled them to ground. These same folk will charge ahead , "Look at what I have discovered!" assuming there is something new under the theological sun heretofore left unanswered by those far exceeding their weight class.
Your disagreement is not with me, but with Scripture. From my post above using a small sampling of the many teachings in Holy Writ about the total inability of the lost—Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14—it is undeniable that the lost have no moral ability to seek after the righteousness of God.
It is only when God the Holy Spirit regeneratively replaces their lost hearts of stone with one of flesh (Eze. 36:26) that the lost are given the moral ability to believe and then irrevocably evidence the first fruits of their regeneration—faith and repentance.
The only "response" from the unbeliever will be "No!". God the Holy Spirit is not impotent. Only the unregenerate elect are salvifically "drawn" (dragged in the actual Greek) by the Holy Spirit. The lost are not morally wounded. They are morally dead to all matters of the righteousness of God. Until resurrected (born again, regenerated) they can only sin more or sin less. The lost are not able to not sin.
We should be in awe that God saves anyone, for all are born fallen in Adam and deserve no mercy and grace from God. The glorious wonder is that God mercifully saves even one person, versus the great multitude that cannot be numbered Scripture teaches us will be brought into the Kingdom. Would that we give God all the glory (one-hundred percent) for our salvation rather than clinging to some humanistic notion of our own wisdom, our supposed openness to being "wooed" by the Holy Spirit, choosing rightly while our neighbor chooses wrongly, etc.
AMR
The church militant got it all wrong? Chronological Snobbery!
Forget the appeal to nuanced translation "error". Do you honestly think you have discovered something here that has escaped examination by those that have come before us for two thousand years? The chronological snobbery you are exhibiting is astounding.
Not a day passes on internet discussion sites where these sort of facile arguments are made, by the poorly equipped budding theologian who assumes those that have come before us have not grappled with such arguments more thoroughly advanced and wrestled them to ground. These same folk will charge ahead , "Look at what I have discovered!" assuming there is something new under the theological sun heretofore left unanswered by those far exceeding their weight class.
Your disagreement is not with me, but with Scripture. From my post above using a small sampling of the many teachings in Holy Writ about the total inability of the lost—Jer. 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; Eph. 2:2; Eph. 2:4-5; Titus 3:5; John 3:19; Rom. 3:10-12; 5:6; 6:16-20; Eph. 2:1,3;1 Cor. 2:14—it is undeniable that the lost have no moral ability to seek after the righteousness of God.
It is only when God the Holy Spirit regeneratively replaces their lost hearts of stone with one of flesh (Eze. 36:26) that the lost are given the moral ability to believe and then irrevocably evidence the first fruits of their regeneration—faith and repentance.
The only "response" from the unbeliever will be "No!". God the Holy Spirit is not impotent. Only the unregenerate elect are salvifically "drawn" (dragged in the actual Greek) by the Holy Spirit. The lost are not morally wounded. They are morally dead to all matters of the righteousness of God. Until resurrected (born again, regenerated) they can only sin more or sin less. The lost are not able to not sin.
We should be in awe that God saves anyone, for all are born fallen in Adam and deserve no mercy and grace from God. The glorious wonder is that God mercifully saves even one person, versus the great multitude that cannot be numbered Scripture teaches us will be brought into the Kingdom. Would that we give God all the glory (one-hundred percent) for our salvation rather than clinging to some humanistic notion of our own wisdom, our supposed openness to being "wooed" by the Holy Spirit, choosing rightly while our neighbor chooses wrongly, etc.
AMR
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God's Truth
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A person has to repent of their sins so that they can get a new heart.
Ezekiel 18:31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?
God says plainly that they have to stop sinning. Nowhere anywhere do scriptures say God makes anyone to believe. Many reject God and some don't. Some like sin and pleasing their flesh more, and some people search for something more.
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Asked and Answered - Ezekiel 18:31
Asked and Answered - Ezekiel 18:31
As was pointed out to you nearly nine months ago, the Ezekiel 18:31 passage is the promiscuous claim of the duty of all persons, irrespective of their actual moral ability to do so. That moral ability requires God act first, Eze. 36:26, and then comes the proper fruits of this regeneration: faith and repentance.
All fallen in Adam are not absolved of their duty to obedience to God. The fact some do not do their duty only confirms the righteousness of their ultimate judgment by God and their terrible eternal destiny.
My response is not an invitation for yet more disputation from you on matters that have been discussed time and again. I only responded to point out to others that your favorite "gotcha!" verse is dead on arrival. :AMR:
AMR
Asked and Answered - Ezekiel 18:31
As was pointed out to you nearly nine months ago, the Ezekiel 18:31 passage is the promiscuous claim of the duty of all persons, irrespective of their actual moral ability to do so. That moral ability requires God act first, Eze. 36:26, and then comes the proper fruits of this regeneration: faith and repentance.
All fallen in Adam are not absolved of their duty to obedience to God. The fact some do not do their duty only confirms the righteousness of their ultimate judgment by God and their terrible eternal destiny.
My response is not an invitation for yet more disputation from you on matters that have been discussed time and again. I only responded to point out to others that your favorite "gotcha!" verse is dead on arrival. :AMR:
AMR
Zeke
Well-known member
This all rides on the historic interpretation of allegorical stories that become dead letters when studied that. The old nature is not a separate sibling you like to dam as being lost. The divine story isn't time based like Rome tells you.
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God's Truth
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God does not tell us to do things that we cannot do.
God tells them to repent and asks why will they die. That is proof that all can do what God says if they did not desire evil.
There is no dead word from God.
way 2 go
Well-known member
so ?
Abram was counted righteous when he believed God.
Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.
way 2 go
Well-known member
he believed.
Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.
You preach "faith along" gospel.
And there is no such thing as "faith alone".
You spread falsely.
drbrumley
Well-known member
Pot calling Kettle black....
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Justification: Forgiveness by faith alone
Sanctification: Obedient, holy life
Both are true.
Justification is first; sanctification follows. Faith produces obedience. Romans 3:31
way 2 go
Well-known member
your question was , what is faith alone ?
Abram believed God and God "counted it to him as righteousness. " undisputed.
Gen 15:5 And he brought him outside and said, "Look toward heaven, and number the stars, if you are able to number them." Then he said to him, "So shall your offspring be."
Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.
Nice try AMR, you are the one disagrees with "Scripture" AKA the Greek words used by the writers and their definitions.
I don't think i've discovered something , i think i've rediscovered something. For what ever reason , God chose me to try and persuade you.
You claim to have had the "experience" AMR . What experience ? Being "in Christ" , being sealed with the Spirit of Christ , and if you have the Spirit of Christ , you also have the "Mind of Christ."
If you can tell me what happens and what it is like to have the "Mind of Christ" , i'll take a second look at you. You see , you'll never find the answer to that question in Gods Word , you have to have the experience.
I await your answer , and keep it focused on the question.
God's Truth
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His faith was made perfect, alive , with what he did.