Can Self-Identification Be Incorrect?

quip

BANNED
Banned
A 90+ kid can not run the football due to league regulations. But they have the physical ability to do so if the regulations were changed. Why must they identify as the weight the league says they are? That is my question.

They don't have to.

Well, I could identify myself as a 7' 2", young, non-obese athlete...that still doesn't mean I could dunk a basketball at will.

I don't see the same restrictions when it comes to using the bathroom.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Gender is not an identity either. It's a biological designation based on your reproductive makeup.

Sex is biological status. Gender is based on a culture's attitudes, feelings and behaviors related to biological sex, and gender identity is an individual's sense of self.
 

shagster01

New member
Sex is biological status. Gender is based on a culture's attitudes, feelings and behaviors related to biological sex, and gender identity is an individual's sense of self.

So when you need to pee, do you start thinking about our culture's attitudes, feelings and behaviors and your sense of self? Or do you think about your biological sensation of needing to pee?
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
So when you need to pee, do you start thinking about our culture's attitudes, feelings and behaviors and your sense of self? Or do you think about your biological sensation of needing to pee?

My gender identity conforms with my biological sex and my society's gender expectations. There are individuals whose gender identity doesn't conform to their biological sex or to society's expectations. Trying to shoehorn that reality into a discussion of peewee football won't solve anything.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
So when you need to pee, do you start thinking about our culture's attitudes, feelings and behaviors and your sense of self? Or do you think about your biological sensation of needing to pee?

that depends

am i standing in a swimming pool? :eek:
 

shagster01

New member
My gender identity conforms with my biological sex and my society's gender expectations. There are individuals whose gender identity doesn't conform to their biological sex or to society's expectations.

That is their problem, not society's. Not everyone fits in. Deal with it.

Trying to shoehorn that reality into a discussion of peewee football won't solve anything.

It's all about identity.
 

shagster01

New member
Especially so, in direct proportion to the objections thereof. :idea:

I don't object to people identifying themselves as whatever they want. I do object to them forcing me to play along.

Self identification doesn't change biology.

I saw a documentary of a dude that tattooed leopard spots on himself and lives like a leopard in the forest. I'd venture to say you still think he's a human? Biology matters.

That's going to be my new campaign. . . "Biology matters."
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Yes, that's what I'm asking about.

What is the distinction between them?

the first one is based on biological facts - dna and specific anatomical structures

the second is based on feelings


and feelings must be respected, even when they conflict with fact :dizzy:
 

PureX

Well-known member
And I'm explaining to you that gender identity has nothing to do with peeing. Biology does.

Self identity is a private matter. Public restrooms are, well, public.
If bathrooms were only about relieving oneself, biologically, there would be no reason to separate the sexes in the first place. A toilet works just as well for anyone, regardless of their sex.

It's sexual identity that determines the separation, not biology. Women want to be treated differently from men, and men want to be treated differently from women. This is not a biological desire. It's a desire based on self-identification. On how we think of ourselves, and on how we want others to think of us.

No one sees anyone else's genitals in a public bathroom to care what's actually between their legs. It's all about the idea of gender separation, not actual gender separation. Which is why basing a law on actual gender separation doesn't work. It would force people who look act and feel like women to use a men's bathroom, and people who look and act and feel like men to use the woman's bathroom. Which is the exact opposite of the desired outcome.

Most transgender people are not detectable in public, or in a public bathroom. The few who might be are so small in number as to be insignificant. And no one knows what their sex is, anyway. So they could just be a very masculine looking woman or a very feminine looking man. And frankly, who really cares but a bigot, anyway?

This whole debate is once again about bigotry, and people wanting the right to discriminate and punish anyone they don't approve of. It has nothing at all to do with who is actually using which public restroom.
 

PureX

Well-known member
I don't object to people identifying themselves as whatever they want. I do object to them forcing me to play along.

Self identification doesn't change biology.

I saw a documentary of a dude that tattooed leopard spots on himself and lives like a leopard in the forest. I'd venture to say you still think he's a human? Biology matters.

That's going to be my new campaign. . . "Biology matters."
You are trying to create a red herring by inferring that biology and identity are equivalent to reality and fantasy. But without identity our biology is meaningless. And without our biology, our identity can't manifest. So the two of these are intrinsically conjoined.

A man's penis is part of who he is, but it is certainly not all he is. A woman's vagina is part of who she is, but is certainly not all of who she is. And if our genitals really were all we are, and the rest is just make-believe to be ignored, then why not just build one bathroom and we'll all use that? Because everyone can use a toilet regardless of their genital structure.
 
Top