ECT Mad finds itself in the trash by applying simple logic

way 2 go

Well-known member
Recently I've been amused by the madists responses to the fact that Jesus forgave a woman caught in the act of adultery. The mads have amazingly convinced themselves that Jesus was a Mosaic law enforcer. Well, they have to think that, don't they?
Otherwise, Jesus would be seen to be operating with grace, mercy and forgiveness like the Jesus all non madists know and love.

Did Jesus say she was set free from the Law ? :nono:

Joh 8:11**And she said, No one, Lord. And Jesus said to her, Neither do I give judgment. Go, and sin no more.


Paul says we are set free from the Law.

Rom 7:6**But now we having been set free from the Law, having died to that in which we were held, so that we serve in newness of spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
 

andyc

New member
Did Jesus say she was set free from the Law ? :nono:

Let's make it as simple as I can.

Did the woman commit adultery? Yes
Does the law condemn adulteresses? Yes
Did Jesus condemn the adulteress? No
Did the adulteress find mercy apart from the law? Yes
What was the basis of this mercy? That's for you to answer.
Did the woman have the opportunity to pursue why and how she'd been forgiven? yes
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Did Jesus say she was set free from the Law ? :nono:

Joh 8:11**And she said, No one, Lord. And Jesus said to her, Neither do I give judgment. Go, and sin no more.


Paul says we are set free from the Law.

Rom 7:6**But now we having been set free from the Law, having died to that in which we were held, so that we serve in newness of spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Christians are set free from covenant obligation to the letter of the law, and now function according to the promises of the new Covenant of Grace, which enables believers in Jesus Christ to be led into holy living by the spirit of the Law.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Well that's right. If Jesus was supposed to uphold the strictness of the law, there are consequences for failure. If Jesus removes the consequences, it' ceases to be a law to those finding forgiveness.
If you're going to tell us what the law teaches, maybe you should READ it first!

Deut 17:6 (AKJV/PCE)
(17:6) At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; [but] at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.

Then read the account again:

John 8:9-11 (AKJV/PCE)
(8:9) And they which heard [it], being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. (8:10) When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? (8:11) She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

There were NO WITNESSES that came forward to put her to death ACCORDING to the LAW!

The Lord Jesus forgave her and YET the law was KEPT!
 

musterion

Well-known member
Pity I wasn't actually talking about the woman caught in the act of adultery. I was talking about a different woman :chuckle:
That makes you look a bit stupid, doesn't it?

I'll clarify.

The woman referenced in the OP was clearly repentant. As was David. Thus they were forgiven what they did, including David's adultery which had no sacrifice under the Law.

The adulteress, as far as the Word reveals, was evidently not repentant. Thus she evidently was not forgiven. Maybe she was and God didn't tell us...but to insist that Christ did forgive her is speculation, arguing from silence.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
I'll clarify.

The woman referenced in the OP was clearly repentant. As was David. Thus they were forgiven what they did, including David's adultery which had no sacrifice under the Law.

The adulteress, as far as the Word reveals, was evidently not repentant. Thus she evidently was not forgiven. Maybe she was and God didn't tell us...but to insist that Christ did forgive her is speculation, arguing from silence.



No sacrifice for adultery? Try a spear through both of them; --Phinehas.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Let's make it as simple as I can.

Did the woman commit adultery? Yes
Does the law condemn adulteresses? Yes
Did Jesus condemn the adulteress? No
Did the adulteress find mercy apart from the law? Yes
What was the basis of this mercy? That's for you to answer.
Did the woman have the opportunity to pursue why and how she'd been forgiven? yes
:juggle::the_wave::juggle:
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Let's make it as simple as I can.

Did the woman commit adultery? Yes
Does the law condemn adulteresses? Yes
takes 2 to commit adultery

Did Jesus condemn the adulteress? No
Did the adulteress find mercy apart from the law? Yes
What was the basis of this mercy? That's for you to answer.
no adulterer / no 2nd person , no crime.


Jesus did not set her free from the Law
as we have been set free from the law now.
 

Danoh

New member
takes 2 to commit adultery


no adulterer / no 2nd person , no crime.


Jesus did not set her free from the Law
as we have been set free from the law now.

Bingo! Yours and RD's above post, where he quoted Deut. 17:6 and John 8, just about says it all.

He also told the woman to repent.

Either of you only two sharpies of the three on here on this issue thus far see that as well?
 

Danoh

New member
On that other issue only Nang, and I think it was Interplanner, who also came somewhat close to following the Scripture on some of it; another aspect of why the Christ submitted to John's baptism of repentence for the remission of sins - Israel's water cleansing ritual - was in His being numbered with transgressors, that He might taste death for every man; for the Law holds that he that sinneth to the extent that Israel did, including that party out to stone that woman...is worthy of death.

Thus, Paul's statement later that one is dead to the Law through the Body of Christ.

This being one aspect of God's Two-Fold Purpose that both Israel's Prophesied Grace and the Body's Mystery Grace have in common.
 

dodge

New member
Tambora; Show in scripture where it says that Jesus [U said:
forgave[/U] her of her sins.
Why do you use words that scripture does not?


Hope this helps ! Different woman same principle:

Luk 7:47
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

Luk 7:48 Luk 7:48
And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

Luk 7:49
And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

Luk 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
 
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Right Divider

Body part
Hope this helps ! Different woman same principle:

Luk 7:47
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

Luk 7:48
Unchecked Copy Box Luk 7:48
And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

Luk 7:49
And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

Luk 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Will you ever learn to quote properly?

God also forgave David..... that had nothing to do with the dispensation of the grace of God or the law.
 

Danoh

New member
Will you ever learn to quote properly?

God also forgave David..... that had nothing to do with the dispensation of the grace of God or the law.

Yep.

Those accounts in Matthew thru John had to do with Israel's Grace as Prophesied or spoken of by Moses.

Not with the Body's then still hidden from ages and generations Mystery Grace as prophesied or spoken of by Paul.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I'll clarify.

The woman referenced in the OP was clearly repentant. As was David. Thus they were forgiven what they did, including David's adultery which had no sacrifice under the Law.

Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Yep.

Those accounts in Matthew thru John had to do with Israel's Grace as Prophesied or spoken of by Moses.

Not with the Body's then still hidden from ages and generations Mystery Grace as prophesied or spoken of by Paul.



Nope, no "Israel's grace." Luke 7 is a woman given grace. John 1 is grace and truth came through christ.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Recently I've been amused by the madists responses to the fact that Jesus forgave a woman caught in the act of adultery. The mads have amazingly convinced themselves that Jesus was a Mosaic law enforcer. Well, they have to think that, don't they?
Otherwise, Jesus would be seen to be operating with grace, mercy and forgiveness like the Jesus all non madists know and love.

So the simple point that the madist has to try and figure out is, what was the basis for people to receive forgiveness of sins by Jesus?

All non madists prepare yourselves for the most ridiculous bizarre responses to this question you could possibly imagine.
But first, lets look at the following passage......


Luke 7:36-50
Then one of the Pharisees asked Him to eat with him. And He went to the Pharisee’s house, and sat down to eat. And behold, a woman in the city who was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil, and stood at His feet behind Him weeping; and she began to wash His feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head; and she kissed His feet and anointed them with the fragrant oil.


If you're a madist, this woman just did the most stupidest thing possible. She decided to worship a Mosaic law enforcer. The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. What kind of grace could she possibly be hoping for from a lawman?
After all, the letter kills, and Jesus was supposed to be a minister of the letter, right? :chuckle:
Jesus wasn't supposed to be speaking words of spirit and life, was he? of course not :chuckle:
What was this woman thinking?

Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw this, he spoke to himself, saying, "This man, if He were a prophet, would know who and what manner of woman this is who is touching Him, for she is a sinner."


He's got a point there, hasn't he, madists?

And Jesus answered and said to him, "Simon, I have something to say to you."

Listen up, madists.

So he said, "Teacher, say it." "There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. "And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?" Simon answered and said, "I suppose the one whom he forgave more." And He said to him, "You have rightly judged." Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head. "You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in. "You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil. "Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much.

Hang on. The woman came to Jesus in faith because she knew he'd forgive her? and so she was pouring out her love for him (worshiping him).?

She had FAITH to be forgiven in other words! And she was forgiven! GRACE GRACE GRACE! Not law!

Now if you're the pharisees sitting at the table watching this, or if you're a madist, there's a very serious question to ask here.
What is the basis for Jesus to forgive this woman's many sins? If he's a law enforcer, there is no basis. You see, the old covenant law was bound between God and man. In the same way that man was bound by the law, God was also bound by it.
How can God overlook a violation of the law one minute, and then condemn the next?
Scripture tells us that the law and the prophets were until John, and so there was a new covenant being introduced that was not according to the letter, and where faith was the only requirement. Faith in Jesus to forgive sins.

But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little." Then He said to her, "Your sins are forgiven." And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?" Then He said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you. Go in peace."

What? her faith saved her? Faith in what?
What's the basis for sins to be forgiven if the sinner is under condemnation from the law, and Jesus is supposed to be a law enforcer?

You won't believe the mad responses to this.

Go!
Jesus had authority to forgive sins on earth, what's so complicated about that? You're making a big deal about nothing, your Bible stories do nothing to affect MAD -
 
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