ECT Is "obedience" to be considered a fruit or an attribute?

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Is "obedience" to be considered a fruit or an attribute? Is it of faith or fear? If fear, fear of what that the "fruit" of His nature within me might reveal. . . if it has not been choked off by the cares or "fame" of/in life?

From the parable of the Sower we read this:

"The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away. And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature. As for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patience." Luke 8:12-15 (ESV)


Where might this fit in to reveal what obedience is meant accomplish: "And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons." Hebrews 12:5-8 (KJV)


What say you?
 
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Faither

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Cross Reference said:
Is "obedience" to be considered a fruit or an attribute? Is it of faith or fear? If fear, fear of what that the "fruit" of His nature within me might reveal. . . if it has not been choked off by the cares or "fame" of/in life?

From the parable of the Sower we read this:

"The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away. And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature. As for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patience." Luke 8:12-15 (ESV)


Where might this fit in to reveal what obedience is meant accomplish: "And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons." Hebrews 12:5-8 (KJV)


What say you?
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Ok Ken , i think you've unknowingly set a president . A president that those who are going through the parable of the sower are not saved yet . I happen to wholeheartedly agree with that . The problem is know one else including yourself , "would " agree with that .

I know this thread is not about this but if we could quickly establish this so we are on the same page i would appreciate it .

The church world and yourself i presume understand we are saved at a moment of "belief ." If this is true then there can't be a parable of the sower where 3 out of the 4 seeds fail in producing a temple of the Holy Spirit .
If we were to take your understanding of receiving the Holy Spirit at the moment of "believing" in Gods Word , then when the seed would be tested in the parable of the sower , it would fail "with" the Spirit of Christ inside them . See the problem ?

If you can give me a point of reference on which you are standing , it would save issues down the road .

Thanks
 
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Faither said:
Ok Ken , i think you've unknowingly set a president . A president that those who are going through the parable of the sower are not saved yet . I happen to wholeheartedly agree with that . The problem is know one else including yourself , "would " agree with that .

I know this thread is not about this but if we could quickly establish this so we are on the same page i would appreciate it .

The church world and yourself i presume understand we are saved at a moment of "belief ." If this is true then there can't be a parable of the sower where 3 out of the 4 seeds fail in producing a temple of the Holy Spirit .
If we were to take your understanding of receiving the Holy Spirit at the moment of "believing" in Gods Word , then when the seed would be tested in the parable of the sower , it would fail "with" the Spirit of Christ inside them . See the problem ?

If you can give me a point of reference on which you are standing , it would save issues down the road .

Thanks
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My belief is when one initially believes for salvation, it is redemption that is made effective . . not more unless he presses forward for understanding that "Redemption" is the free gift he received, a new foundation for a new way of Life as God purposed it from the beginning. Unfortunately, Church, much of which we experience, doesn't carry forward with that message.
As it was a process of becoming unto son-ship/fatherhood Adam entered into by a series of moral choices, so it is to be for the one who is new born from above whom Christ Jesus chooses after one counts the cost involved. Unfortunately, that is the part the church omits in its message. Jesus pointed part of this out to Nicodemus. In other words Salvation is`, as God purposes it a "family affair", a new way of life by which, by the tutoring of the Holy Spirit is taught to us the "ways of the Father". It is written somewhere that when on the backside of the desert God revealed Who He is to the children of Israel but to Moses, God revealed His ways. Learning His ways is what John 17:3 is all about that intimacy is the reward... . . . Hope that helps.
 
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Cross Reference said:
My belief is when one initially believes for salvation, it is redemption that is made effective . . not more unless he presses forward for understanding that "Redemption" is the free gift he received, a new foundation for a new way of Life as God purposed it from the beginning. Unfortunately, Church, much of which we experience, doesn't carry forward with that message.
As it was a process of becoming unto son-ship/fatherhood Adam entered into by a series of moral choices, so it is to be for the one who is new born from above whom Christ Jesus chooses after one counts the cost involved. Jesus pointed part of this out to Nicodemus. In other words Salvation is`, as God purposes it is a "family affair", a new way of life by which, by the tutoring of the Holy Spirit is taught to us the "ways of the Father". It is written somewhere that when on the backside of the desert God revealed Who He is to the children of Israel but to Moses, God revealed His ways. Learning His ways is what John 17:3 is all about that intimacy is the reward... . . . Hope that helps.
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Could you elaborate what you mean by " believes for salvation ?"
 
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Faither said:
Could you elaborate what you mean by " believes for salvation ?"
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No. Redemption Salvation is for the one who believes. We cannot determine what the point is that one crosses that might anull that fact. Do you really want to be that judge? Hence, being born again is for more intimate reasons.
 
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No. Redemption Salvation is for the one who believes. We cannot determine what the point is that one crosses that might anull that fact. Do you really want to be that judge? Hence, being born again is for more intimate reasons.
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Your on the wrong path CR . There is no such thing as one who "believes " that will result in receiving the Spirit of Christ for Salvation . That is a mistranslation , haven't you been following anything i've presented to you . This is your warning , not from one who makes an ultimate judgement , but one who has the responsibility as a watchman to warn you . You are on the wrong path ! we could have done this between the two of us in private , but this was your venue.
 
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Faither said:
Your on the wrong path CR . There is no such thing as one who "believes " that will result in receiving the Spirit of Christ for Salvation . That is a mistranslation , haven't you been following anything i've presented to you . This is your warning , not from one who makes an ultimate judgement , but one who has the responsibility as a watchman to warn you . You are on the wrong path ! we could have done this between the two of us in private , but this was your venue.
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Why does one need the spirit of Christ for salvation? Show me.

OMT: I came to you. You have done nothing as promised except challenge me while I have been waiting for you to execute that "private" thing to happen. I was wondering when you were going to drop the other shoe.
 
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Cross Reference said:
Why does one need the spirit of Christ for salvation? Show me.

OMT: I came to you. You have done nothing as promised except challenge me while I have been waiting for you to execute that "private" thing to happen. I was wondering when you were going to drop the other shoe.
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And there's the misrepresentation . And the completion of our discussion.

Really Ken , Why does one need the Spirit of Christ for Salvation ? Man i completely misread you .
 
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DAN P

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Cross Reference said:
Why does one need the spirit of Christ for salvation? Show me.

OMT: I came to you. You have done nothing as promised except challenge me while I have been waiting for you to execute that "private" thing to happen. I was wondering when you were going to drop the other shoe.
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Hi and read 1 Cor 12:3 and see !!

dan p
 
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Funny, I didn't misread you. From the begining you were what I thougt you were. . . terribly misguided unto some sort of mysticism that only by it could one be saved. Something smelled when you did your best to get me into agreement with you by ever so slightly misrepresenting my words.

Too bad you don't see the difference between salvation by believing Christ for what He did on the cross and the new birth from above; your choosing Christ and Him choosing you after you count the cost. Tragic that you accuse for lack of such understanding that would enrich your <cough> Christian life.

Gene Scott ended his life a cult leader. Evidence of that being the case, abounds. What does that say about what you lent yourself to. However, it is not late to repent, which I hope you do. And I hope you hang on to the "Complete Works of Oswald Chambers" who, I am quite sure Scott lent his life to as anyone in ministry with the hope of Spiritually prosperous fruit has done. Too bad Scott got in his own way but fortunately for many saw the writing on the wall to understand "He was wanting".

Stuff like that by Chambers by Scott was never presented you as being plagared from him especially after Scott reworked it to suit his ambitions. I can spot it when I read it. Your word "Faithing" is one such example. There is no such word but, "abandoned to God" rang a bell with you. I don't wonder why. But because of your conceit, you couldn't it. You would have at least been more inline with simple understanding had you said "Abiding in Christ" and Him "abiding in you". But no. You had to make it "mystical". Something privste, cultish. You might know Gene Scott's teaching but you sure don't know what the Bible teaches.. . . Sorry to have to say that but you have shown nothing to support you do.

FWIW: I went to Faith Center for several years when living in California. It helped me solidify my understanding about what I didn't want as an authority over me.

Maybe sometime later when things change in your life for to rectify your understanding we might cross paths and you can tell me all about it. I love good endings. . .:)


Lov'in Jesus,

Ken
 
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Cross Reference said:
Funny, I didn't misread you. From the begining you were what I thougt you were. . . terribly misguided unto some sort of mysticism that only by it could one be saved. Something smelled when you did your best to get me into agreement with you by ever so slightly misrepresenting my words.

Too bad you don't see the difference between salvation by believing Christ for what He did on the cross and the new birth from above; your choosing Christ and Him choosing you after you count the cost. Tragic that you accuse for lack of such understanding that would enrich your <cough> Christian life.

Gene Scott ended his life a cult leader. Evidence of that being the case, abounds. What does that say about what you lent yourself to. However, it is not late to repent, which I hope you do. And I hope you hang on to the "Complete Works of Oswald Chambers" who, I am quite sure Scott lent his life to as anyone in ministry with the hope of Spiritually prosperous fruit has done. Too bad Scott got in his own way but fortunately for many saw the writing on the wall to understand "He was wanting".

Stuff like that by Chambers by Scott was never presented you as being plagared from him especially after Scott reworked it to suit his ambitions. I can spot it when I read it. Your word "Faithing" is one such example. There is no such word but, "abandoned to God" rang a bell with you. I don't wonder why. But because of your conceit, you couldn't it. You would have at least been more inline with simple understanding had you said "Abiding in Christ" and Him "abiding in you". But no. You had to make it "mystical". Something privste, cultish. You might know Gene Scott's teaching but you sure don't know what the Bible teaches.. . . Sorry to have to say that but you have shown nothing to support you do.

FWIW: I went to Faith Center for several years when living in California. It helped me solidify my understanding about what I didn't want as an authority over me.

Maybe sometime later when things change in your life for to rectify your understanding we might cross paths and you can tell me all about it. I love good endings. . .:)


Lov'in Jesus,

Ken
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ROMANS 8 :9
 
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Ya know, Jon, you just couldn't see your way clear to bow out gracefully upon knowing you were running out of words to say "I don't understand" preferring rather to "warn me" in an attempt to save face. Tragic, that.
 
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Cross Reference said:
Ya know, Jon, you just couldn't see your way clear to bow out gracefully upon knowing you were running out of words to say "I don't understand" preferring rather to "warn me" in an attempt to save face. Tragic, that.
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My problem isn't having words to say , it's finding people who have qualified themselves by the correct faithing action . I can't speak to you about the things of God until you are His first .
 
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Your god, Dr. "Whatis Name, is no god except in your own mind that is now "Ichabod" because you have allowed him access for a 'new way' of believing for salvation to corrupt you sensibilities. You would have him be the savior of the world. How foolish can that be except to a mind made dead?

Spare me your warnings, child of your "god".

Please forward this on to your funny farm "FUMS" forum robots as a "warning".
___________________________________________________________________________

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1696698493888239/?ref=search

I hope all here on this thread will go to that demonic site [above link] as well to read for themselves that which has ensnared countless folk, by being caught off by a Charlatan with the end result of such people who embraced his teaching: "How to love your worldly life as it is and have Jesus, too." . Please revisit this thread to share your findings.
 
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oatmeal

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Cross Reference said:
Is "obedience" to be considered a fruit or an attribute? Is it of faith or fear? If fear, fear of what that the "fruit" of His nature within me might reveal. . . if it has not been choked off by the cares or "fame" of/in life?

From the parable of the Sower we read this:

"The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away. And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature. As for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patience." Luke 8:12-15 (ESV)


Where might this fit in to reveal what obedience is meant accomplish: "And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons." Hebrews 12:5-8 (KJV)


What say you?
Click to expand...

Most certainly, obedience is a decision. It may be an awkward decision at times, but to obey God is always beneficial to the obeyer.

It is an attribute that is well worth building as a lifestyle in one's life.
 
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OMT: Obviously "Faithlinger" has revealed his lack of the "fruit of obedience". Perhaps he is still working on his badge and isn't there yet. Who knows?
 
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oatmeal said:
Most certainly, obedience is a decision. It may be an awkward decision at times, but to obey God is always beneficial to the obeyer.

It is an attribute that is well worth building as a lifestyle in one's life.
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God will not accept any works such as obedient behavior of any sort , filthy rags comes to mind .

But , the good news , is He will accept a piece of garbage life such as my own , no questions asked . And He will show His life in us by entertaining eternity with our good works or obedient acts that are as the result of His Spirit in us , received by the continual surrendering of our lives to Him.

You guys really should give your ears a good cleaning . One day it will be one day to late .
 
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Faither said:
God will not accept any works such as obedient behavior of any sort , filthy rags comes to mind .

But , the good news , is He will accept a piece of garbage life such as my own , no questions asked . And He will show His life in us by entertaining eternity with our good works or obedient acts that are as the result of His Spirit in us , received by the continual surrendering of our lives to Him.

You guys really should give your ears a good cleaning . One day it will be one day to late .
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And you need to get a hold of yourself, Bunk. You think too highly of yourself.
You haven't said a thing here that originated with Dr. Hokum or you and if held up to the light of 'DAY', the Teachers who taught me did a better job of it and their chalk would reveal it.
You need to know that it is elementary teaching of abiding in Jesus Christ and move to the why of it all I also was taught and which you never speak of either message. You just make up words to whatever sounds good, make it complicated, screw up/sharpshoot correction given you only to claim a superior understanding any born again Christian can easily recognize.. That has been Dr. Hokum's method which has impressed you to embrace but scriptural hokum wrapped in any package is stil hokum. I personally believe the great Doc has most certainly found that out by.
So if anyone needs a warning it's you, kiddo.
To repeat Tozer: "Heresy of method can be a greater danger than the message". You got alot of "method" and want good folk to buy into it to support the worldly causes of Doc Hokum' other worldly wife, no doubt. Not for me and I pray for no one else either. Repent and live, is my best advice to you.
 
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