Does Romans 7:1-3 affirm different rules for women and men regarding adultery?

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

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This contribution is a quote from [MENTION=17195]daqq[/MENTION]

:)

Paul is very crafty. He is not writing about physical marriage and remarriage in this passage because he does not actually use a word for marriage but rather, (and this is where the Torah comes in), he says, "so that you may become another". The reason why he says become another is because the two indeed become one flesh according to the Torah, (that is, Messiah dwelling in you). Though it may appear on the surface it is not the Torah which must die but us, (that is, "the flesh" with all its attributes of the old man nature). Thus again Paul speaks of much higher things than simply speaking of physical adultery which he merely uses for example and illustrative purposes. What follows in the passage makes this pretty clear; for there are two forms of Torah, and although Horeb and Sinai generally speak of the same mountain they do not speak of the same things. Horeb is Torah of Elohim, and of the mind, and of above; Sinai is the Torah of sin, (to be employed against the deeds of the body to "mortify the flesh" with all its deeds and attributes), and Torah of Sinai, which is Torah of sin and death, is of below, that is, against the old man, the carnal man, his mindset, and the deeds of the body. This is precisely what Paul states at the close of the passage, (Rom 7:25, "So then with the mind I myself serve the Torah of Elohim, [Horeb] but with the flesh the Torah of sin", [Sinai]). It truly speaks of mortifying or putting to death your "members which are upon the earth", (Col 3:5), and mortifying or putting to death "the deeds of the body", (Rom 8:13).

Romans 7:3-4 W/H
3 αρα ουν ζωντος του ανδρος μοιχαλις χρηματισει εαν γενηται ανδρι ετερω εαν δε αποθανη ο ανηρ ελευθερα εστιν απο του νομου του μη ειναι αυτην μοιχαλιδα γενομενην ανδρι ετερω

3 So then, while the husband lives, if she be becomes another man,
[γενηται ανδρι ετερω] she shall be called an adulteress: but if the husband die, she is free from the law, so that she is no adulteress, though she become another man [γενομενην ανδρι ετερω].

4 ωστε αδελφοι μου και υμεις εθανατωθητε τω νομω δια του σωματος του χριστου εις το γενεσθαι υμας ετερω τω εκ νεκρων εγερθεντι ινα καρποφορησωμεν τω θεω

4 Wherefore, my brethren, you also were
[have been - are being] put to death by the law, by way of the body of Messiah, toward your becoming another that is awakened-raised from the dead; so that that we might bring forth fruit unto Elohim.

The old man soul is what must die so that we may be raised anew in Messiah, that is, by way of his Testimony, "putting on the mind of Messiah", which is truly the new interpretation of the Torah by the full Testimony of Yeshua; the transformation of the Torah from technical statutes and physical minded ordinances into Torah of Spirit and of the mind, (even the mind of Elohim), and that Testimony Yeshua paid for with his own blood, (the purchase price as you no doubt know). And yet his Testimony was not his own but given him from the Father above. There is therefore no other name under the heavens having been given among men whereby we must be saved because the Father has sealed and approved the name of Yeshua Messiah and his all-important Testimony. Those in the other thread who might be claiming to be Torah scholars are most likely speaking from the old man soulish interpretation of the Torah, (especially anyone who rejects the Testimony of Yeshua as being that of Messiah). IMO none of this really has anything to do with the laws for men and women concerning physical adultery which is clearly morally wrong.
 

Crucible

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That you think it is permissible for a man to have more than one wife amazes me.

That you think it's permissible for women to divorce their husbands amazes me :rolleyes:

Solomon had an estimated 700 wives, and there is nonetheless the Song of Solomon in the BIBLE that expresses his love of another woman.

Your argument is forfeit just by that observation alone :wave2:
 

daqq

Well-known member
That you think it's permissible for women to divorce their husbands amazes me :rolleyes:

Solomon had an estimated 700 wives, and there is nonetheless the Song of Solomon in the BIBLE that expresses his love of another woman.

Your argument is forfeit just by that observation alone :wave2:

How do you know for sure they are really literal wives and not the daughters of the doctrines of the heathen of the land or the wives of his bosom who are like unto his own soul, (Deut 13:6)?

Allegories, allegories, all is allegory . . . :)

1 Kings 11:2-3 KJV
2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.


Seven hundred and three hundred are a thousand . . .

1 Kings 11:4-8 KJV
4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.
5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
8 And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.


That is now a thousand and four . . .

1 Kings 4:30-34 KJV
30 And Solomon's wisdom excelled the wisdom of all the children of the east country, and all the wisdom of Egypt.
31 For he was wiser than all men; than Ethan the Ezrahite, and Heman, and Chalcol, and Darda, the sons of Mahol: and his fame was in all nations round about.
32 And he spake three thousand proverbs: and his songs were a thousand and five.
33 And he spake of trees, from the cedar tree that is in Lebanon even unto the hyssop that springeth out of the wall: he spake also of beasts, and of fowl, and of creeping things, and of fishes.
34 And there came of all people to hear the wisdom of Solomon, from all kings of the earth, which had heard of his wisdom.


His songs were a thousand and five but only one made into the record, (Song of Solomon).
Beware "the wife of your bosom" does not turn your heart away from the Most High . . . :)
 

chair

Well-known member
That you think it's permissible for women to divorce their husbands amazes me :rolleyes:

Solomon had an estimated 700 wives, and there is nonetheless the Song of Solomon in the BIBLE that expresses his love of another woman.

Your argument is forfeit just by that observation alone :wave2:

I will get a lot of people upset here but: Highly unlikely that the Song of Solomon was written by King Solomon.
 

Sonnet

New member
That you think it's permissible for women to divorce their husbands amazes me :rolleyes:

Solomon had an estimated 700 wives, and there is nonetheless the Song of Solomon in the BIBLE that expresses his love of another woman.

Your argument is forfeit just by that observation alone :wave2:

Can you explain how polygyny doesn't violate Jesus's stricture that lusting after a woman is adultery?
 

Crucible

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Can you explain how polygyny doesn't violate Jesus's stricture that lusting after a woman is adultery?

No, because I'm tired of you telling me to 'explain things'. You can say it once or twice- five times is a wrap. Bye now :wave2:
 

Sonnet

New member
Matthew 5:27-28
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

For Christians, this verse explicity makes polgyamy sinful does it not?
 

Sonnet

New member
How do you know for sure they are really literal wives and not the daughters of the doctrines of the heathen of the land or the wives of his bosom who are like unto his own soul, (Deut 13:6)?

Allegories, allegories, all is allegory . . . :)

1 Kings 11:2-3 KJV
2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.


Seven hundred and three hundred are a thousand . . .

1 Kings 11:4-8 KJV
4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.
5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
8 And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.


That is now a thousand and four . . .

1 Kings 4:30-34 KJV
30 And Solomon's wisdom excelled the wisdom of all the children of the east country, and all the wisdom of Egypt.
31 For he was wiser than all men; than Ethan the Ezrahite, and Heman, and Chalcol, and Darda, the sons of Mahol: and his fame was in all nations round about.
32 And he spake three thousand proverbs: and his songs were a thousand and five.
33 And he spake of trees, from the cedar tree that is in Lebanon even unto the hyssop that springeth out of the wall: he spake also of beasts, and of fowl, and of creeping things, and of fishes.
34 And there came of all people to hear the wisdom of Solomon, from all kings of the earth, which had heard of his wisdom.


His songs were a thousand and five but only one made into the record, (Song of Solomon).
Beware "the wife of your bosom" does not turn your heart away from the Most High . . . :)

If 'wife' doesn't have to mean 'wife' then aren't we on a slippery slope? How many other seemingly real events can we allegorize? Noah, Creation, the crucifixion?
 

daqq

Well-known member
If 'wife' doesn't have to mean 'wife' then aren't we on a slippery slope? How many other seemingly real events can we allegorize? Noah, Creation, the crucifixion?

All the Prophets and the Torah prophesied until Yohanan, (Matthew 11:13).
You either believe it or you do not.
 

Sonnet

New member
Apologists for the legitimacy of scriptural polygamy cannot be be real Christians can they?

Matthew 5:27-28
"You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Surely this occurs at the moment of polygamy does it not?

Jesus tells the crowds that eternal life comes through believing him. If you don't believe his words about adultery - that lusting after another woman constitutes adultery - then how can it be said that you are a true follower of Christ?

John 6:27-28
Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.” Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Further - it appears that Jesus is in conflict with the OT.
 
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