The Justification of the Ungodly, Romans 4:5

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Ask Mr. Religion

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You are very immature. Why the moderators allow you to do what you do is a mystery and a disappointment to me.

If the law has not been abolished then Christians are still under it and subject to it.

But thanks be to God it has been abolished.
Nonsense, Robert.

The moral law, which is summarily comprehended in the ten commandments, was written on Adam’s heart and given to Moses on Mount Sinai. This moral law is a perpetual and perfect rule of righteousness, forever binding on all people.


The ceremonial laws, which were given to Israel as a church under age, were typological and instructive. They point us to Christ and remind us of God’s call to holiness, and have been abrogated in the new covenant.


The civil laws, which were given to the commonwealth of Israel as a nation-state, expired with that political state of Israel. They are no longer binding, yet they teach us of our general equity (fair and just) obligations.

AMR
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Nonsense, Robert.

The moral law, which is summarily comprehended in the ten commandments, was written on Adam’s heart and given to Moses on Mount Sinai. This moral law is a perpetual and perfect rule of righteousness, forever binding on all people.


The ceremonial laws, which were given to Israel as a church under age, were typological and instructive. They point us to Christ and remind us of God’s call to holiness, and have been abrogated in the new covenant.


The civil laws, which were given to the commonwealth of Israel as a nation-state, expired with that political state of Israel. They are no longer binding, yet they teach us of our general equity (fair and just) obligations.

AMR


There is only one law, it is "God's Law". Not three separate laws. The law is the very nature and character of God. if you fail in one point you have failed the whole thing.

The law demands perfection because God is perfect. Anything less than perfect is sin.

To be under God's law is to be under condemnation. This is why it has been abolished for Christians, Romans 8:1, but not for unbelievers.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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There is only one law, it is "God's Law". Not three separate laws. The law is the very nature and character of God. if you fail in one point you have failed the whole thing.

Nonsense once more and very poor logical thinking.

Do this and live.

Live and do this.

Which one applies to the believer today?

AMR
 

Epoisses

New member
Nonsense, Robert.

The moral law, which is summarily comprehended in the ten commandments, was written on Adam’s heart and given to Moses on Mount Sinai. This moral law is a perpetual and perfect rule of righteousness, forever binding on all people.

The ten commandments were never written on anyone's heart!!!!

God's law of unconditional love is written in the heart as opposed to the conditional love that you have that always comes with a price tag.

Epic fail for someone who should know better. What a con-man, lol.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
The ten commandments were never written on anyone's heart!!!!

God's law of unconditional love is written in the heart as opposed to the conditional love that you have that always comes with a price tag.

Epic fail for someone who should know better. What a con-man, lol.

So God didn't create man with a conscience, right?
 

Epoisses

New member
So God didn't create man with a conscience, right?

The ten commandments have nothing to do with conscience! Men with a weak conscience felt like they were sinning if they ate meat sacrificed to an idol. I long to have an edifying conversation but it's just never going to happen.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
The ten commandments have nothing to do with conscience! Men with a weak conscience felt like they were sinning if they ate meat sacrificed to an idol. I long to have an edifying conversation but it's just never going to happen.

So you pick a verse that speaks of a weak conscience to prove your point?

No law ever gives man the power to obey...whether it's written in the conscience we were created with, or whether it was written down. You really aren't capable of having an edifying conversation, because you pick such lousy verses to prove your "point". Thus the error.


Romans 1:19-20 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 2:14-15 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Because the mods see you spamming satanic doctrine, wolf.


Again, a false, satan "inspired" false dichotomy, a drunken, demon induced spam, devilish "logic," as he corrupts/perverts the meaning of "abolished/destroyed/eliminated/made void," as there is no such thing as "not existing" in certain circumstances, but "re-existing,"un-destroyed," un made void" in other circumstances.Not being under a law's jurisdiction, does not mean that the law does not exist/was abolished/destroyed/made void.

Pate: US citizens are not under the authority, jurisdiction, of the laws of foreign countries; thus. the laws of foreign countries do not exist/are abolished/are destroyed/are made void.

Demon induced "reasoning."




No, deceiver, as you flip the bird at Paul, as he never said that the law is contrary to us, as it is holy, just, good, spiritual, not void-he said the sin debt, the charges against us, the certificate of indebtedness, our "IOU,"DEFINED BY AN EXISTING LAW, moron, are against us. And neither the Ephesians or Colossians passages assert that the LORD God abolished His holy law, as you have been shown. But you daddy devil tells you to keep asserting that doctrine of demons, replacing/deleting/ corrupting bible words, as he does.

Pate: The laws of other countries are abolished, since we cannot keep them, and are not under them!!!

Moron. The devil taught you this "logic."


The Bible plainly teaches that the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14. Plus many other scriptures. It is very evident that you don't have the Holy Spirit and are not able to receive this truth.

Because you don't believe that the law has been abolished, you are under it. To be under the law is to under condemnation. This is one of the purposes of the law.

You apparently prefer to be under the law than under grace, Romans 6:14.
 

john w

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The Bible plainly teaches that the law has been abolished, Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14. Plus many other scriptures. It is very evident that you don't have the Holy Spirit and are not able to receive this truth.

No, it does not. Your father the devil plainly teaches that satanic doctrine of demons, and it is evident that you, have the "spirit" of disobedience, from your father, the devil.
Because you don't believe that the law has been abolished, you are under it.

To be under the law is to under condemnation. This is one of the purposes of the law.

You apparently prefer to be under the law than under grace, Romans 6:14.


Spam.= a false, satan "inspired" false dichotomy, a drunken, demon induced spam, devilish "logic," as he corrupts/perverts the meaning of "abolished/destroyed/eliminated/made void," as there is no such thing as "not existing" in certain circumstances, but "re-existing,"un-destroyed," un made void" in other circumstances.Not being under a law's jurisdiction, does not mean that the law does not exist/was abolished/destroyed/made void.

Pate: US citizens are not under the authority, jurisdiction, of the laws of foreign countries; thus. the laws of foreign countries do not exist/are abolished/are destroyed/are made void.

= Demon induced "reasoning."




No, deceiver, as you flip the bird at Paul, as he never said that the law is contrary to us, as it is holy, just, good, spiritual, not void-he said the sin debt, the charges against us, the certificate of indebtedness, our "IOU,"DEFINED BY AN EXISTING LAW, moron, are against us. And neither the Ephesians or Colossians passages assert that the LORD God abolished His holy law, as you have been shown. But you daddy devil tells you to keep asserting that doctrine of demons, replacing/deleting/ corrupting bible words, as he does.

Pate: The laws of other countries are abolished, since we cannot keep them, and are not under them!!!

Moron. The devil taught you this "logic."
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
No, it does not. Your father the devil plainly teaches that satanic doctrine of demons, and it is evident that you, have the "spirit" of disobedience, from your father, the devil.



Spam.= a false, satan "inspired" false dichotomy, a drunken, demon induced spam, devilish "logic," as he corrupts/perverts the meaning of "abolished/destroyed/eliminated/made void," as there is no such thing as "not existing" in certain circumstances, but "re-existing,"un-destroyed," un made void" in other circumstances.Not being under a law's jurisdiction, does not mean that the law does not exist/was abolished/destroyed/made void.

Pate: US citizens are not under the authority, jurisdiction, of the laws of foreign countries; thus. the laws of foreign countries do not exist/are abolished/are destroyed/are made void.

= Demon induced "reasoning."




No, deceiver, as you flip the bird at Paul, as he never said that the law is contrary to us, as it is holy, just, good, spiritual, not void-he said the sin debt, the charges against us, the certificate of indebtedness, our "IOU,"DEFINED BY AN EXISTING LAW, moron, are against us. And neither the Ephesians or Colossians passages assert that the LORD God abolished His holy law, as you have been shown. But you daddy devil tells you to keep asserting that doctrine of demons, replacing/deleting/ corrupting bible words, as he does.

Pate: The laws of other countries are abolished, since we cannot keep them, and are not under them!!!

Moron. The devil taught you this "logic."


You never quote scripture to make your point, can it be that you don't believe the scriptures?

I think that you believe in the religion of John W. No scripture needed.

I have shown you countless scriptures that the law has been abolished, John 1:17, Romans 3:19, Romans 3:28, Romans 4:15, Romans 5:13, Romans 6:14, Romans 7:6, Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14. Plus many others.

And then there are the scriptures that warn us about being under the law, like Galatians 3:10.

It appears that you want to be under the law. I Suppose it is because you can't hear the law, Galatians 4:21.
 

john w

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You never quote scripture to make your point, can it be that you don't believe the scriptures?

I think that you believe in the religion of John W. No scripture needed.

Yes, I do, you satanic deceiver, as have others, to refute your doctrine of demons, from hell, but due to 2 Cor. 4:4, you do not get it, deny it. Your father, the devil, used scripture, in isolation,out of context, in the wilderness, against the Saviour, like you do, admitted satanist. He taught you well.

Romans 3:19, Romans 3:28, Romans 4:15, Romans 5:13, Romans 6:14, Romans 7:6, Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14. Plus many others.

And then there are the scriptures that warn us about being under the law, like Galatians 3:10.

It appears that you want to be under the law. I Suppose it is because you can't hear the law, Galatians 4:21.

No, the above do not support your dung inspired trash, that the law no longer exists, as I, others, have shown you, perverter. Your father the devil plainly teaches your satanic doctrine of demons, and it is evident that you, have the "spirit" of disobedience, from your father, the devil.



Spam.= a false, satan "inspired" false dichotomy, a drunken, demon induced spam, devilish "logic," as he corrupts/perverts the meaning of "abolished/destroyed/eliminated/made void," as there is no such thing as "not existing" in certain circumstances, but "re-existing,"un-destroyed," un made void" in other circumstances.Not being under a law's jurisdiction, does not mean that the law does not exist/was abolished/destroyed/made void.


Pate, on record, which he has yet to deny: US citizens are not under the authority, jurisdiction, of the laws of foreign countries; thus, the laws of foreign countries do not exist/are abolished/are destroyed/are made void. = Demon induced "reasoning."




No, deceiver, as you flip the bird at Paul, as he never said that the law is contrary to us, as it is holy, just, good, spiritual, not void-he said the sin debt, the charges against us, the certificate of indebtedness, our "IOU,"DEFINED BY AN EXISTING LAW, moron, are against us. And neither the Ephesians or Colossians passages assert that the LORD God abolished His holy law, as you have been shown. But you daddy devil tells you to keep asserting that doctrine of demons, replacing/deleting/ corrupting bible words, as he does.

Pate: The laws of other countries are abolished, since we cannot keep them, and are not under them!!! Moron. The devil taught you this "logic."




Romans 3:21 KJV

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;



Romans 3:20 KJV

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


Romans 7 KJV
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8



Galatians 3:24 KJV

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


The LORD God: One of the reasons, I gave you all the law, is that so that the lost can know what sins is, and to be led to my Christ. Use it as such. The law also witnesses to my righteousness, the righteousness of God, without the law. Use it as such to others.


Pate: Here is the bird, "god," as the law no longer exists, it was destroyed, it was abolished, it was eliminated, it was made void, so we cannot use it with the lost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Demon.
 
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Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Yes, I do, you satanic deceiver, as have others, to refute your doctrine of demons, from hell, but due to 2 Cor. 4:4, you do not get it, deny it. Your father, the devil, used scripture, in isolation,out of context, in the wilderness, like you do, admitted satanist. He taught you well.



No, the above do not support your dung inspired trash, that the law no longer exists, as I, others, have shown you, perverter. Your father the devil plainly teaches your satanic doctrine of demons, and it is evident that you, have the "spirit" of disobedience, from your father, the devil.



Spam.= a false, satan "inspired" false dichotomy, a drunken, demon induced spam, devilish "logic," as he corrupts/perverts the meaning of "abolished/destroyed/eliminated/made void," as there is no such thing as "not existing" in certain circumstances, but "re-existing,"un-destroyed," un made void" in other circumstances.Not being under a law's jurisdiction, does not mean that the law does not exist/was abolished/destroyed/made void.

Pate: US citizens are not under the authority, jurisdiction, of the laws of foreign countries; thus. the laws of foreign countries do not exist/are abolished/are destroyed/are made void.

= Demon induced "reasoning."




No, deceiver, as you flip the bird at Paul, as he never said that the law is contrary to us, as it is holy, just, good, spiritual, not void-he said the sin debt, the charges against us, the certificate of indebtedness, our "IOU,"DEFINED BY AN EXISTING LAW, moron, are against us. And neither the Ephesians or Colossians passages assert that the LORD God abolished His holy law, as you have been shown. But you daddy devil tells you to keep asserting that doctrine of demons, replacing/deleting/ corrupting bible words, as he does.

Pate: The laws of other countries are abolished, since we cannot keep them, and are not under them!!!

Moron. The devil taught you this "logic."


Of course Paul said that the law is contrary to us.

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances (THE LAW) that was against us, WHICH WAS CONTRARY TO US, and took it out of the way NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS" Colossians 2:14.

There it is right in your face.

You are not able to receive the truth of this scripture, which tells me that you are void of the Holy Spirit, who is the teacher of truth, John 16:13.

I have good news for you John. You will be judged by the law and condemned. Then you will be able to say, "See the law has not been abolished, it just condemned me to hell".
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Of course Paul said that the law is contrary to us.

No, he did not. Your daddy devil says that.


"Blotting out the handwriting of the ordinances that was against us, that was contrary to us and took it out of the way nailing it to his cross" Colossians 2:14



An ordinance is law. The law has been done away for the Christian. Where there is law there is judgment and condemnation.



You keep spamming this made up slop, Pate, that Col. 2:13-14 KJV has God's holy laws in view, being nailed to the cross. I, and others, have corrected you on it, over, and over, and yet you keep asserting this satanic "doctrine." One more time, to protect the sheep/babes, from your lies:



What was nailed to the cross is described as “the handwriting of requirements"-that was against us, which was contrary to us.” Because “ordinances” sounds like “law,” some, like sloppy Pate, twist the meaning of “nailed it to the cross” into Paul saying the force of the law of God ended at the death of the Lord Jesus Christ.



The writ of charges...

In using the words “handwriting of requirements … contrary to us … nailed it to the cross,” Paul was describing the record of our sins, the indictment that required the penalty of death.



No, the indictments against believers, the charges against believers, the legal indebtedness against believers – was what was dropped, and nailed to the cross at the Lord Jesus Christ's death, rather than the law itself, which is consistently characterized in Scripture as eternal, and good...To wit:





Romans 7 KJV



12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.



13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.



14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.



15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.



16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.



“handwriting,”=a memorandum of debt, "a writing by hand" used in public and private contracts.





The wages of our sins—our debt—is death (Romans 6:23 KJV). The Lord Jesus Christ was willing to pay that debt by dying in our place, thus blotting out the record of our debt and pardoning our sins.



Survey the "death warrant" against us, because of our sin/sins is the sign that Pilate had nailed to the cross upon which the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified. John 19:19-22 KJV-It was customary to publish a writ of charges against the condemned, and the board above the Lord Jesus Christ's head was inscribed with the charges for which the Jewish authorities demanded His death. Thus, it was a Roman custom, to write the name of the condemned person and his crime on a plaque to be placed above his head at the execution. Survey Mark 15:26 KJV-"superscription of his accusation."



26 And the superscription of his accusation was written over, The King Of The Jews.



The charges removed-the meaning, then, of Colossians 2:13-14 KJV, based upon the immediate and the broader context is: You gentile believers had a death sentence against you due to your sin/sins-here are the charges............... But through the dbr, everything that one time could have been held against you has been removed.



The law against believers? No, it wasn’t God’s law that was against believers; it was the sins that they committed, as defined by that same holy, good law!. "the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"= anything written by hand, but can more specifically apply to a legal document, bond or note of debt, was against us!!!!



Paul is relaying that the LORD God has "wiped out," removed, "nailed to the cross," through the body of Christ , representing mankind's guilt, the instrument for the remembrance of sin. The legal basis of this instrument was the "binding statutes," Col. 2:14 KJV, but what the LORD God destroyed on the cross was not the legal ground, the law, for our entanglement into sin, but the written record of our sins. By destroying the record of sins, the LORD God removed the possibility of a charge ever being made again against those who have been forgiven-a dead man is not under jurisdiction to the law.



" Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"




The above-a handwritten acknowledgement or note of debt, something like an I.O.U. When the debt was paid in full, the handwriting was invalidated by piercing it with something sharp like a nail.



This "handwriting" was also used in the case of the crucifixion or punishment of a criminal. All the charges of which the person had been found guilty, were written on a piece of parchment, and nailed to the cross on which the person convicted of those crimes would be crucified. Everyone could then see why he was hanging there and what he had done to deserve such a cruel punishment.This written indictment/charge/accusation are seen in John 19:19-20: accusations that were hung on the cross, on which the Lord Jesus Christ hung:



19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was Jesus Of Nazareth The King Of The Jews.



20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.



The "accusing witness," so to speak, against the sinner, the record book of his sins, the certificate of debt, or book of debt, was removed/nailed. The Lord Jesus Christ has "erased" it, removed it out of the court, out of the witness chair of the accuser. Not only is this record of our sins removed, but it is also "nailed to the cross" in the sense that the Lord Jesus Christ took our sins upon himself, and paid the penalty for them...Survey 2 Cor. 5:21 KJV.





Moreover, pardoning someone for committing a capital crime, doesn’t do away with the law that was broken. If anything, it shows that the law carries force, for without the pardon, the criminal would die!



In the same way, the law of God carries force since breaking it (committing sin) requires the death penalty. The law is that powerful, that important. It is holy. People aren’t saved from that which was against them (the death penalty) by doing away with the law. What saves people from death is the death of the Lord Jesus Christ in the place of those who trust 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.



In fact, the wording Paul employed Colossians 2:13-14 showed that the law of God continues to carry great force. By saying the penalty demanded under the law of God was nailed to the instrument that killed the Lord Jesus Christ, Paul was showing that the law of God was still in force, still requiring death for sin.



By contrast, if the law had been brought to an abrupt end by the death of the Lord Jesus Christ, from that point on, nothing would be “against the law”-duh! Nothing could be called “sin.” Of course, we know that is not true. Sin exists, which means the law that calls it “sin” also exists!






To be under the law is to be lost and under the judgment of God. This is why Jesus abolished it for believers.

-I never said believers are under the law, you satanic piece of dung, as you keep saying, you lying punk, so knock it off.



-No such thing as "abolished" for believers, you moron. We are not under the law, but the law has not been abolished, idiot, as you pervert the meaning of "abolish." from the bible. No scripture says that the law was abolished-for anyone.




"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances (THE LAW) that was against us, WHICH WAS CONTRARY TO US, and took it out of the way NAILING IT TO HIS CROSS" Colossians 2:14.

There it is right in your face.

You are not able to receive the truth of this scripture, which tells me that you are void of the Holy Spirit, who is the teacher of truth, John 16:13.

I have good news for you John. You will be judged by the law and condemned. Then you will be able to say, "See the law has not been abolished, it just condemned me to hell".

Again-Notice how the devil taught hic child Pate, how to replace "handwriting of ordinances," with "the law?"

You wicked satanic pawn, and the is not contrary to us, blasphemer, it is the sin debt for breaking an existing law that is against us, you demon.

Pate: I was charged with breaking a speeding law recently. I went to the judge, and asked that he abolish the law against speeding, as that is the only way that I could be "forgiven" pardoned, for breaking that particular law.


That is the convoluted "logic" of Pate.

Admitted satanist-Pate.
 
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john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Jesus gave a new law and not the old law.

You both are in falseness.

No scripture asserts that this alleged "a new law" abolishes/destroys/makes void God's holy law, so, as usual, you've added nothing, said nothing.

Get saved.
 

God's Truth

New member
No scripture asserts that this alleged "a new law" abolishes/destroys/makes void God's holy law, so, as usual, you've added nothing, said nothing.

Get saved.

There is no old law anymore. It is abolished.

We only have the new law and it doesn't care to whom one is blood related.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
There is no old law anymore. It is abolished.

We only have the new law and it doesn't care to whom one is blood related.

No scripture asserts that this alleged "a new law" abolishes/destroys/makes void God's holy law, so, as usual, you've added nothing, said nothing.

Get saved.
 

God's Truth

New member
No scripture asserts that this alleged "a new law" abolishes/destroys/makes void God's holy law, so, as usual, you've added nothing, said nothing.

Get saved.

The whole old law was about what was coming, Jesus Christ.

Jesus came and now we do what he says in the New Testament.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
The whole old law was about what was coming, Jesus Christ.

Jesus came and now we do what he says in the New Testament.

No scripture asserts that this alleged "a new law" abolishes/destroys/makes void God's holy law, so, as usual, you've added nothing, said nothing.

Get saved.
 
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