ECT Grace . . It is NOT God's "unmerited favor"

Cross Reference

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Grace, the word, . . . . Places where it is found in the Old Testament scriptures

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 
Genesis 6:8 (KJV)

19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die: 
Genesis 19:19 (KJV)

5 And I have oxen, and *****, flocks, and menservants, and womenservants: and I have sent to tell my lord, that I may find grace in thy sight. 
Genesis 32:5 (KJV)

8 And he said, What meanest thou by all this drove which I met? And he said, These are to find grace in the sight of my lord. 
Genesis 33:8 (KJV)

10 And Jacob said, Nay, I pray thee, if now I have found grace in thy sight, then receive my present at my hand: for therefore I have seen thy face, as though I had seen the face of God, and thou wast pleased with me. 
Genesis 33:10 (KJV)

15 And Esau said, Let me now leave with thee some of the folk that are with me. And he said, What needeth it? let me find grace in the sight of my lord. 
Genesis 33:15 (KJV)

11 And Shechem said unto her father and unto her brethren, Let me find grace in your eyes, and what ye shall say unto me I will give. 
Genesis 34:11 (KJV)

4 And Joseph found grace in his sight, and he served him: and he made him overseer over his house, and all that he had he put into his hand. 
Genesis 39:4 (KJV)

25 And they said, Thou hast saved our lives: let us find grace in the sight of my lord, and we will be Pharaoh's servants. 
Genesis 47:25 (KJV)

29 And the time drew nigh that Israel must die: and he called his son Joseph, and said unto him, If now I have found grace in thy sight, put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh, and deal kindly and truly with me; bury me not, I pray thee, in Egypt: 
Genesis 47:29 (KJV)

4 And when the days of his mourning were past, Joseph spake unto the house of Pharaoh, saying, If now I have found grace in your eyes, speak, I pray you, in the ears of Pharaoh, saying, 
Genesis 50:4 (KJV)

12 And Moses said unto the LORD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight. 
Exodus 33:12 (KJV)

13 Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people. 
Exodus 33:13 (KJV)

16 For wherein shall it be known here that I and thy people have found grace in thy sight? is it not in that thou goest with us? so shall we be separated, I and thy people, from all the people that are upon the face of the earth. 
Exodus 33:16 (KJV)

17 And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name. 
Exodus 33:17 (KJV)

9 And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O Lord, let my Lord, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance. 
Exodus 34:9 (KJV)

5 Wherefore, said they, if we have found grace in thy sight, let this land be given unto thy servants for a possession, and bring us not over Jordan. 
Numbers 32:5 (KJV)

17 And he said unto him, If now I have found grace in thy sight, then shew me a sign that thou talkest with me. 
Judges 6:17 (KJV)

2 And Ruth the Moabitess said unto Naomi, Let me now go to the field, and glean ears of corn after him in whose sight I shall find grace. And she said unto her, Go, my daughter. 
Ruth 2:2 (KJV)

10 Then she fell on her face, and bowed herself to the ground, and said unto him, Why have I found grace in thine eyes, that thou shouldest take knowledge of me, seeing I am a stranger? 
Ruth 2:10 (KJV)

18 And she said, Let thine handmaid find grace in thy sight. So the woman went her way, and did eat, and her countenance was no more sad. 
1 Samuel 1:18 (KJV)

3 And David sware moreover, and said, Thy father certainly knoweth that I have found grace in thine eyes; and he saith, Let not Jonathan know this, lest he be grieved: but truly as the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, there is but a step between me and death. 
1 Samuel 20:3 (KJV)

5 And David said unto Achish, If I have now found grace in thine eyes, let them give me a place in some town in the country, that I may dwell there: for why should thy servant dwell in the royal city with thee? 
1 Samuel 27:5 (KJV)

22 And Joab fell to the ground on his face, and bowed himself, and thanked the king: and Joab said, To day thy servant knoweth that I have found grace in thy sight, my lord, O king, in that the king hath fulfilled the request of his servant. 
2 Samuel 14:22 (KJV)

4 Then said the king to Ziba, Behold, thine are all that pertained unto Mephibosheth. And Ziba said, I humbly beseech thee that I may find grace in thy sight, my lord, O king. 
2 Samuel 16:4 (KJV)

8 And now for a little space grace hath been shewed from the LORD our God, to leave us a remnant to escape, and to give us a nail in his holy place, that our God may lighten our eyes, and give us a little reviving in our bondage. 
Ezra 9:8 (KJV)

17 And the king loved Esther above all the women, and she obtained grace and favour in his sight more than all the virgins; so that he set the royal crown upon her head, and made her queen instead of Vashti. 
Esther 2:17 (KJV)

2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever. 
Psalm 45:2 (KJV)

11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield: the LORD will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly. 
Psalm 84:11 (KJV)

9 For they shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck. 
Proverbs 1:9 (KJV)

22 So shall they be life unto thy soul, and grace to thy neck. 
Proverbs 3:22 (KJV)

34 Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly. 
Proverbs 3:34 (KJV)

9 She shall give to thine head an ornament of grace: a crown of glory shall she deliver to thee. 
Proverbs 4:9 (KJV)

11 He that loveth pureness of heart, for the grace of his lips the king shall be his friend. 
Proverbs 22:11 (KJV)

2 Thus saith the LORD, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest. 
Jeremiah 31:2 (KJV)

7 Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it. 
Zechariah 4:7 (KJV)

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 
Zechariah 12:10 (KJV)


In every instance was grace given to an acceptable life.
 

Danoh

New member
Grace IS conditional.

BUT said condition DIFFERS this side of the Cross.

From "do and ye shall live" to "believe He did, and ye shall live."

In BOTH cases, there IS a condition.

BUT it differs, depending upon what side of the Cross God is depicted operating from in Scripture.

Confusion results when, and or is dependent upon, what side of the Cross one CONCLUDES in ONE'S OWN mind, one is looking at the other side from IN CONTRAST TO where ONE is ACTUALLY looking at things from.

Which explains the OP's off-base comclusion.

The actual fact of the matter?

Just look at the TIME STAMP THROUGHOUT the following:

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Grace IS conditional.

BUT said condition DIFFERS this side of the Cross.

From "do and ye shall live" to "believe He did, and ye shall live."

In BOTH cases, there IS a condition.

BUT it differs, depending upon what side of the Cross God is depicted operating from in Scripture.

Confusion results when, and or is dependent upon, what side of the Cross one CONCLUDES in ONE'S OWN mind, one is looking at the other side from IN CONTRAST TO where ONE is ACTUALLY looking at things from.

Which explains the OP's off-base comclusion.

The actual fact of the matter?

Just look at the TIME STAMP THROUGHOUT the following:

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Is not believing for it the, condition? And by believing I mean, living the life of one who truly does, . . .believe?
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Do what with what?

Sounds like you want to magnify Mr. Merit.

God magnifies Mr. Unmerit.

Go figure, no matter how flabby yours is?
You seem to be quite low on the Wechsler scale.

You might not find it in the following passage, but there is a specific line that tells how one of the two persons merited Grace.


Luke 18:11-14
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.​


Grace IS conditional.

BUT said condition DIFFERS this side of the Cross..
No, the conditions are still the same.
Many people just are not able to figure out what the real conditions are.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
The Real Condition is God's Great Command, the same one Jesus said in Mk 12. Since no one can love God with all, no one is righteous. And even after the Circumcision of the Heart, coming unto man like a dove alighting, this is still nigh impossible to do, depending upon the fullness of indwelling.

Man could do the Ten, but man in general cannot do the Great Law much. Man anointed can do it possibly to the extent God requires.
But the Propitiation is still necessary for most. Jesus is the beginning and the end of Law.
Jesus told this parable.


Matthew 21:28-32
28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.​

You are claiming to be a third son, who thinks the Father will be pleased with him even though he tells the Father, "I will not" and also does not repent to do what the Father requested of him.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Backwerds. Faith in Jesus brings anointing to some. This is the desire to do the Great Law.

I troth you think truth backwerds. God draws you initially. You might could work on that beginning premise to begin with.
You seem to have been taught some very dangerous doctrines that lead to destruction instead of salvation.

The way God draws you is through hearing His word.

Luke 8:11-15
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.​

What you do with God's word after hearing it determines whether you will find favor (Grace) with God.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
How so? The Father came to me, through the words of Christ: "No man comes unto the Father except through me."

And I heeded this and believed, eventually. What say you, about this?

Do you think God seen nothing of merit in what you did?

If not, then there is no reason for God to give you Grace.

According to your doctrine, there is no reason for God to give Grace to you instead of giving it to an unrepentant Jeffrey Dahmer.
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Has trinitarianism brought forth fruit or folly?

Has German Lutheranism brought forth war and the Holocaust or fruit?

Has German Catholicism?

Has Greek Thinking brought forth the One True God or the Triune God?

Did the things you mention come from pride or from humbling yourself before God?
 

Danoh

New member
Is not believing for it the, condition? And by believing I mean, living the life of one who truly does, . . .believe?

Correct me if I'm off-base on this - it appears you are trying to solve for the valid concern described in Romans 6:15 via the means that Romans 6:14 not only relates is no longer in place, but given what it implies as to why it was in place when it was.
 

DAN P

Well-known member

Grace, the word, . . . . Places where it is found in the Old Testament scriptures

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. 
Genesis 6:8 (KJV)

19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, /QUOTE]


Hi and Grace is a trnaliterated word with many means and here are two that define the difference !!

in the OT God was gracious and Mercy !!

Bur the Dipensation of the Grace is different and you do not know the difference !!

dan p
 
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