Maybe it wasn't Russia

kmoney

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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-cyberwar-commentary-idUSKBN12X075

Commentary: Don't be so sure Russia hacked the Clinton emails
By James Bamford


....

The problem with attempting to draw a straight line from the Kremlin to the Clinton campaign is the number of variables that get in the way. For one, there is little doubt about Russian cyber fingerprints in various U.S. campaign activities. Moscow, like Washington, has long spied on such matters. The United States, for example, inserted malware in the recent Mexican election campaign. The question isn’t whether Russia spied on the U.S. presidential election, it’s whether it released the election emails.

Then there’s the role of Guccifer 2.0, the person or persons supplying WikiLeaks and other organizations with many of the pilfered emails. Is this a Russian agent? A free agent? A cybercriminal? A combination, or some other entity? No one knows.

There is also the problem of groupthink that led to the war in Iraq. For example, just as the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency and the rest of the intelligence establishment are convinced Putin is behind the attacks, they also believed it was a slam-dunk that Saddam Hussein had a trove of weapons of mass destruction.

Consider as well the speed of the political-hacking investigation, followed by a lack of skepticism, culminating in a rush to judgment. After the Democratic committee discovered the potential hack last spring, it called in the cybersecurity firm CrowdStrike in May to analyze the problem.

CrowdStrike took just a month or so before it conclusively determined that Russia’s FSB, the successor to the KGB, and the Russian military intelligence organization, GRU, were behind it. Most of the other major cybersecurity firms quickly fell in line and agreed. By October, the intelligence community made it unanimous.

That speed and certainty contrasts sharply with a previous suspected Russian hack in 2010, when the target was the Nasdaq stock market. According to an extensive investigation by Bloomberg Businessweek in 2014, the NSA and FBI made numerous mistakes over many months that stretched to nearly a year.

....

It is strange that clues in the Nasdaq hack were very difficult to find ― as one would expect from a professional, state-sponsored cyber operation. Conversely, the sloppy, Inspector Clouseau-like nature of the Guccifer 2.0 operation, with someone hiding behind a silly Bolshevik cover name, and Russian language clues in the metadata, smacked more of either an amateur operation or a deliberate deception.
...

Despite the rushed, incomplete investigation and unanswered questions, the Obama administration has announced its decision to retaliate against Russia. But a public warning about a secret attack makes little sense. If a major cyber crisis happens in Russia sometime in the future, such as a deadly power outage in frigid winter, the United States could be blamed even if it had nothing to do with it.

That could then trigger a major retaliatory cyberattack against the U.S. cyber infrastructure, which would call for another reprisal attack ― potentially leading to Clarke’s fear of a cyberwar triggering a conventional war. President Barack Obama has also not taken a nuclear strike off the table as an appropriate response to a devastating cyberattack.


I thought this was an interesting piece. Both the doubts about it being Russia and also the danger in publicly talking about it and our potential response.
 

rocketman

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And maybe it was, because the former head of the mass murdering KGB has too much integrity to influence a US election, even if he did publically endorse Donald Trump?

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...ized!-Part-4&p=4849209&viewfull=1#post4849209

And yet the FBI investigate Trump & all those in his inner circle for possible Russian ties and came up with nothing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/us/politics/fbi-russia-election-donald-trump.html?_r=0

Furthermore, why wouldn't Putin endorse Trump, it shows he sees the clear present danger of a felon in the white house just as Cruz & other sane thinkers do. Go Hillary right?
 

aCultureWarrior

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Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

And maybe it was, because the former head of the mass murdering KGB has too much integrity to influence a US election, even if he did publically endorse Donald Trump?

And yet the FBI investigate Trump & all those in his inner circle for possible Russian ties and came up with nothing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/us/politics/fbi-russia-election-donald-trump.html?_r=0

So all of the sudden you're believing the same FBI that let Hillary Clinton off the hook?

Furthermore, why wouldn't Putin endorse Trump, it shows he sees the clear present danger of a felon in the white house just as Cruz & other sane thinkers do. Go Hillary right?

It's that brotherhood of tyrants thing.

(Edit) Mr. Trump has called him [Putin] a great leader and echoed his policies toward NATO, Ukraine and the war in Syria..,

The above was from your NY Times article ^

Aside from that, isn't that kind of an odd alliance, a anti Israel/pro Iran President endorsing a supposedly pro Israel/anti Muslim candidate?
 

rocketman

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that's acw's mantra :idunno:

Even when his (& mine) candidate Cruz has moved on from the primaries, got over the insults, and moved on to save the country aCW is so invested in his rhetoric that he will go down with the ship as it were over his perceived butthurt about the past. To each his own I guess... like Cruz I have moved on to what is important, I am invested in saving the nation, not creating a constitutional crisis by allowing a felon to be elected POTUS, and all the nonsense that will envelope the nation for another four years, the nation is already in crisis and the distraction of investigations, impeachment, et al is counterproductive to fixing critical problems that have metastasized under the current administration.
 

aCultureWarrior

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Even when his (& mine) candidate Cruz has moved on from the primaries, got over the insults, and moved on to save the country aCW is so invested in his rhetoric that he will go down with the ship as it were over his perceived butthurt about the past. To each his own I guess... like Cruz I have moved on to what is important, I am invested in saving the nation, not creating a constitutional crisis by allowing a felon to be elected POTUS, and all the nonsense that will envelope the nation for another four years, the nation is already in crisis and the distraction of investigations, impeachment, et al is counterproductive to fixing critical problems that have metastasized under the current administration.

So you took time to respond to a professional internet troll's post instead of refuting mine?

Come on rocketman, you can do better than that.
 

rocketman

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So all of the sudden you're believing the same FBI that let Hillary Clinton off the hook?

You mean the same organization that reopened the criminal investigation on the emails and has a separate investigation on the foundation where they are asking for a grand jury for indictment? That organization? I think mistakes have been made thus far in the public disclosure but, I believe that the agency & its agents have the utmost integrity in their job, even if they have no control of the politics.



It's that brotherhood of tyrants thing.

Is it? or is that your opinion...You know not everyone thinks like you do...confrontational that is.


Aside from that, isn't that kind of an odd alliance, a anti Israel/pro Iran President endorsing a supposedly pro Israel/anti Muslim candidate?

Not really, I believe that diplomacy is far better than war and if Trump is coming out not trying to create an enemy, diplomacy might have a chance. If he is confrontational out of the gate there cannot be any diplomacy.
 

aCultureWarrior

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Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

So all of the sudden you're believing the same FBI that let Hillary Clinton off the hook?

You mean the same organization that reopened the criminal investigation on the emails and has a separate investigation on the foundation where they are asking for a grand jury for indictment? That organization?

Yes, the same FBI which is the federal government's #1 investigative law enforcement agency that should have done their job right the first time around, that FBI.

I think mistakes have been made thus far in the public disclosure but, I believe that the agency & its agents have the utmost integrity in their job, even if they have no control of the politics.

Ouch ouch ouch, I'm laughing so hard that my ribs are hurting. I can see you saying those words after the FBI refused to indict Hillary Clinton for the various crimes that she's obviously guilty of committing...

NOT.

Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

It's that brotherhood of tyrants thing.

Is it? or is that your opinion...You know not everyone thinks like you do...confrontational that is.

I'll make you a deal: when I'm a Presidential contender, you can focus on me, until then let's stick to the topic of former KGB mass murdering tyrant Vladimir Putin and wannabe tyrant Donald Trump (need I copy and paste Trump's words from his SMUT magazine interview in 1990 where he praised the Communist Chinese for how they sternly handled the freedom protestors in Tiananmen Square?).

Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

Aside from that, isn't that kind of an odd alliance, a anti Israel/pro Iran President endorsing a supposedly pro Israel/anti Muslim candidate?

Not really, I believe that diplomacy is far better than war and if Trump is coming out not trying to create an enemy, diplomacy might have a chance. If he is confrontational out of the gate there cannot be any diplomacy.

If Trump were pro Israel/anti Iran like he claims he is (and he's not, he's a pathological liar who will say anything to get elected), then anti-Israel/pro Iran Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump would be...

natural born enemies.

But strangely enough, the two admire each other.

Hey, I have some articles that show Trump's ties to the Russian mafia, can we talk about that or do you have to answer more posts from the internet troll?
 

aCultureWarrior

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On another note aCW, you have had nothing to say about Cruz campaigning & phone banking for Trump. If Cruz understands the stakes why don't you?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...03/cruz-appear-pence-campaign-trump/93229110/

I supported Ted Cruz in the primaries which are over. Cruz is doing what he needs to do in order to protect his future political career (Ted, I'm sorry but 3/4 of Trump supporters looooooooathe you for your Christian and conservative policies and ideology, i.e. you'll never get their vote even after endorsing the nutcase who said that your father was part of the JFK assassination conspiracy).
 

rocketman

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I supported Ted Cruz in the primaries which are over. Cruz is doing what he needs to do in order to protect his future political career (Ted, I'm sorry but 3/4 of Trump supporters looooooooathe you for your Christian and conservative policies and ideology, i.e. you'll never get their vote even after endorsing the nutcase who said that your father was part of the JFK assassination conspiracy).

You need to get over it man, at this point it is pathetic! 3/4 of Trump supporters did not loathe him because of his Christianity any more than they loathe Pence for his, they were however angered with him that he did not endorse at the convention, which I totally understood even though I thought it was political suicide. You are correct he is doing what he has to do but, don't believe for a second that what he is doing he is doing for Trump, he is doing it because he does love this country and understands the ramifications if the felon occupies the oval office. I respect Ted and continue to support him because he understands the stakes and is doing his part to make sure the felon is defeated....it is called love of country, my hat is off to him for being the bigger man.
 

kmoney

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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-documents-idUSKBN12Y2WY

The FBI and U.S. intelligence agencies are examining faked documents aimed at discrediting the Hillary Clinton campaign as part of a broader investigation into what U.S. officials believe has been an attempt by Russia to disrupt the presidential election, people with knowledge of the matter said.

U.S. Senator Tom Carper, a Democrat on the Senate Homeland Security Committee, has referred one of the documents to the FBI for investigation on the grounds that his name and stationery were forged to appear authentic, some of the sources who had knowledge of that discussion said.

In the letter identified as fake, Carper is quoted as writing to Clinton, “We will not let you lose this election,” a person who saw the document told Reuters.

The fake Carper letter, which was described to Reuters, is one of several documents presented to the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the U.S. Department of Justice for review in recent weeks, the sources said.


FBI checking into faked documents.
 

aCultureWarrior

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Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

I supported Ted Cruz in the primaries which are over. Cruz is doing what he needs to do in order to protect his future political career (Ted, I'm sorry but 3/4 of Trump supporters looooooooathe you for your Christian and conservative policies and ideology, i.e. you'll never get their vote even after endorsing the nutcase who said that your father was part of the JFK assassination conspiracy).

You need to get over it man,..

Actually I was kinda hoping that we could continue to talk about the Putin-Trump connection, but you do know your limitations, something that I've admired about you since you've taken me on in numerous debates since you started supporting the moral degenerate Donald Trump.


...at this point it is pathetic! 3/4 of Trump supporters did not loathe him because of his Christianity any more than they loathe Pence for his, they were however angered with him that he did not endorse at the convention, which I totally understood even though I thought it was political suicide. You are correct he is doing what he has to do but, don't believe for a second that what he is doing he is doing for Trump, he is doing it because he does love this country and understands the ramifications if the felon occupies the oval office. I respect Ted and continue to support him because he understands the stakes and is doing his part to make sure the felon is defeated....it is called love of country, my hat is off to him for being the bigger man.

You have no idea how out of touch you are with the majority of your fellow Trump supporters. I'd ask you to ask Libertarians like patrick jane, Crucible and that internationally known internet troll ok doser (aka the Library boy) what they think of Ted Cruz, but you wouldn't get an honest answer out of them (if you were standing next to them, their jaw clenching would give it away).

Oh and Mike Pence: He's a fraud just like Trump (I've exposed Pence on numerous occasions in my WHMBR! Part 4 thread).
 

rocketman

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Actually I was kinda hoping that we could continue to talk about the Putin-Trump connection, but you do know your limitations, something that I've admired about you since you've taken me on in numerous debates since you started supporting the moral degenerate Donald Trump.

Ahh yes, the deflection...something I have noticed about you. When you are challenged you deflect. There is no limitation on the so-called Russian connection, as I pointed out the FBI thoroughly investigated not only Trump but, his aids & surrogates and came up with nothing, as far as I am concerned it is a dead issue. I would like to correct your assertion of my position about Trump, I like Ted Cruz do not support Trump, I support the defeat of the felon Hillary, Donald Trump is the vehicle to deliver that. Like Cruz I recognize the damage to this nation is far more grave with the felon at the helm than it is with Donald Trump. Don't worry though, you may just get your wish of four years of tyranny with the felon Hillary yet. I will congratulate you later.


Oh and Mike Pence: He's a fraud just like Trump (I've exposed Pence on numerous occasions in my WHMBR! Part 4 thread).

Never thought your judgement of others was that intuitive so, there that is...
 

aCultureWarrior

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Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Actually I was kinda hoping that we could continue to talk about the Putin-Trump connection, but you do know your limitations, something that I've admired about you since you've taken me on in numerous debates since you started supporting the moral degenerate Donald Trump.


Ahh yes, the deflection...something I have noticed about you.

You're the one that keeps talking about me instead of wanting to refute the evidence that Donald Trump has close ties to mass murdering ex KGB President Vladimir Putin and the Russian mafia. Are you afraid that the truth about your sexual deviant/wannabe tyrant candidate will be further revealed? (it's interesting how throughout history many tyrants were sexual deviants by the way).


Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior
Oh and Mike Pence: He's a fraud just like Trump (I've exposed Pence on numerous occasions in my WHMBR! Part 4 thread).

Never thought your judgement of others was that intuitive so, there that is..

If you don't want to refute the evidence against sexual deviant/wannabe tyrant Donald Trump, how about at least we talk about the anti conservative policies of Governor Mike Pence?
 
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