Myths About Liberals And Liberalism

ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

New member
ok doser said:
it would indeed - i suspect conscientiousness and IQ measurement are linked more strongly than race and IQ

and i suspect that conscientiousness and culture are linked as well.



all of this is speculative, little of it is well supported and it serves no one's benefit to restrict the discussion with cries of "racism!"
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Racism used to be a valid issue and now it's merely a blugeoning tool to shut up your opponent when you have nothing to offer.

This will get me in trouble but whites are the new Jews. There was outright genocide in Hitler's Europe. The first step was dehumanization. White males are either the main problem for non whites here and now or they hold the guilt of their ancestors and must atone for their sins. Either way, whites must be driven to the outskirts of society especially with regard to power. It's only fair. A new economy is being created born in silicon valley. They are the gatekeepers. Free speech equals hate speech. Hate speech equals lose your employment and ability to feed yourself. Non conforming whites will be forced into economic ghettoes and socially ostracized. Social connections also equal economic opportunity.

Sounds alot like the Warsaw ghetto.
 
M

MennoSota

New member
The Horn said:
Here are some misconceptions about liberals and liberalism which conservatives believe :

1 Liberals are socialists, Marxists ad communists . Liberals are not communists and communists are not liberals . Liberalism and communism are polar opposites .
2. Liberals are atheists . Some are, but only some . Some are agnostics .
3. Liberals are anti-christian , hate Christians and want to persecute them . Wrong. Many liberals ARE Christians. The only thing they are opposed to is to is theocracy - theocracy in any religion , not only Christianity . Or allowing religion to get more power in government .
4. Liberals like abortion and want to increase the abortion rate . Nothing could be farther form the truth . Liberals want to PREVENT as many abortions as possible, by preventing unwanted pregnancies .
The only reason they are pro-choice is because they realize that it is absolutely futile to stop abortion by making it illegal, and that this actually causes a higher abortion rate , causes the deaths of many women from botched illegal ones and leaves many children without mothers .
5. Liberals are antibusiness and don't want anyone to be rich, and want to take most money away from the rich .
Wrong. They aren't opposed to people being rich per se - all they want is for rich people to pay their fair share in taxes . If they did this, they would still be able to live in great luxury .
7. Liberals believe in "big government ". They believe government should be as big as it needs to be - no more and no less .
8. Liberals are trying to "promote " homosexuality . Liberals are trying to promote TOLERANCE for gay people and want them to have equal rights . You can't "promote" homosexuality any more than you can "promote " heterosexuality .
9. Liberals are sexually promiscuous and licentious . No more so than conservatives . In many cases, less so !
10 . Liberals support Islamic terrorism and condone violence by Muslims . Not at all . All liberals want is for the peaceful, law-abiding Muslim majority to be treated with tolerance and respect . What they deplore is the stereotyping and scapegoating of Muslims as being inherently fanatical and violent .
11. Liberals have no problem with violent Hispanics coming across the border ,taking jobs from Americans, and sponging off the US government . They support using illegal aliens to vote for Democratic politicians .
Poppycock ! First of all, the overwhelming majority of the illegal aliens who have come across the border are NOT violent criminals and the vast majority can't even afford guns !
They feel that those who have come across the border previously should be allowed a path to citizenship if they have been peaceful,law-abiding and have worked hard, which is true of the vast majority of them .
Stories of the Democratic party using illegal Hispanics to vote are an urban legend .
12. Liberals want to "indoctrinate " kids in public school with Marxism, communism, tolerance of gay people , etc . Again, poppycock . Teaching tolerance of gay people is the MORAL thing to do .
13. Liberals want to crush the free speech of conservatives . Some American universities have ridiculous speech codes which DO crush free speech , but these codes are AUTHORITARIAN, not liberal . Liberals have no problem otherwise with conservatives saying whatever they want .
14. Liberals are crazy , tree hugging environmental wackos . This kind of environmental extremism is not typical of liberals . But what the heck is wrong with being concerned abut pollution , wanting to protect the environment from it , and wanting to prevent greedy, unscrupulous CEOs of oil companies from despoiling the environment with impunity ? Absolutely nothing !
In fact, anyone who DOESN'T want to protect the environment is just plain stupid !
Click to expand...
Are you referring to classical liberalism versus classical conservatism or are you talking about progressive liberalism?
What defines the progressive movement is the undying ideology of humanism, which is the cornerstone for socialism, communism, anarchy, enviromentalism, darwinism/naturalism and fascism.
The underlying idea is that humans are naturally good and given the proper stimulus humans can create a society that is inclusive of all persons.
Of course this underlying idea goes contrary to God's word, which says that humans are desperately wicked and in outright rebellion to God. Humans, left unchecked, will stratify themselves and fight for power and dominance. Humans will trick, lie, steal and fight their way to power and then create laws designed to grant themselves power while weakening those who would attempt to reach the same level of power.
Observation tells the rational human that God is correct, but power hungry persons will ignore God and push humanism in an effort to gain power.
 
Town Heretic

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
ok doser said:
the argument against it?
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A great deal, as it turns out. In the colonial days a white man used the term against another white man and was sued in court for the insult. The term was the darling of slave traders and all those who saw profit from the industry. It was popular among the sort of scum who lynched and kept blacks from right before the law here and elsewhere well into the last century. It was on the lips of those who instigated the New York race riots, the Red Summer of 1919, the Elaine and Tulsa and Atlanta race riots. It is the tried and true friend to Klansman and white supremacists everywhere.

was mark twain's use of "ni66er" uniformly degrading?
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The meaningful question would be is it, not was it. It reflected the ignorant bias of the time, which is why Jim couldn't just be called Jim. But then, slavery ran in Clemens' family. His father and uncle owned slaves. His exposure to some of that bias can be found in a few places, a letter to one person, a comment to a friend.* The ease with which he uses a term that in its day was no endearment, whoever he romanticized it. Sam even briefly served in the Confederate army during the Civil War, but fled to Nevada in short order.

That said, he was no friend to lynchings and barberism. And in his exposure to both Clemens became their enemy, even if he never quite rid himself of the filters he grew up using in his narratives, rooted in the language of that enemy.


* Biographer Justin Kaplan noted that in a letter to his family Clemens wrote, "I reckon I had better black my face, because in these Eastern states n---s are better than white people."
Clemens also made a comment to a friend about feeling like a mother who has a white baby while having been anxious it might have been a mulatto, relating his nervousness about the final success of his "Roughing It."
 
Town Heretic

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
ok doser said:
so you fill the preceding paragraph arguing that past usage of the word is a strong argument against and then you want to apply current standards to twain?!
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I keep forgetting that rational thought isn't your aim or strong suit. There's only one standard for how people are supposed to be treated in our society. The largely racist society of Clemens' time doesn't get a pass because most of the white people were okay thinking of blacks as lesser creatures and institutionalized that sentiment in their usage.

Past use and what it signified, along with the carrying of that over into the present IS in sum a strong argument against it.
 
ok doser

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Town Heretic said:
If you don't understand something as basic as what the standard is within our society for how you treat anyone (and in that is the answer) then I not only can't help you, I don't want to help you. Enroll in a decent Kindergarten class. They'll have you straightened out in a jiffy.
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iow, you can't explain it briefly and clearly and you don't have the time to spend bloviating for pages and pages

got it :thumb:
 
ok doser

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Eeset said:
Idiot
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Nah - he's playing to his crowd - rushaannaartie will be along momentarily to slap him on the back and give him the adulation he so desperately needs

Still, it is fun to put him on the spot when he's been caught bloviating :chuckle:



eta - see - artie's already given him a high five :darwinsm:

and rusha and foxfire :darwinsm:
 
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Town Heretic

Town Heretic

Out of Order
Hall of Fame
Eeset said:
Idiot
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Which, if true, would make you a bully in relation to me and a pointless sycophant in relation to Sod.

Sounds about right as intent goes.

Speaking of intent...
ok doser said:
Nah - he's playing to his crowd - rushaannaartie will be along momentarily to slap him on the back and give him the adulation he so desperately needs
Still, it is fun to put him on the spot when he's been caught bloviating
eta - see - artie's already given him a high five
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Sod...I've had dogs that loved me follow me less and accomplish more.
 
Arthur Brain

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Town Heretic said:
Which, if true, would make you a bully in relation to me and a pointless sycophant in relation to Sod.

Sounds about right as intent goes.

Speaking of intent...

Sod...I've had dogs that loved me follow me less and accomplish more.
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His pathological obsession with you and Barb has been something to behold...not a good thing of course, more just a "what the?!" kinda thing...

:freak:
 
M

MennoSota

New member
I should have known this has turned into a pissing match.
2ed36da7e9d504f4db5b6775df82283f.jpg
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
Not quite an appropriate comment or post (offensive) for TOL, however. There are better ways, more appropriate ways to say it than giving as much offense as perhaps the initial thing observed :think:
 
ok doser

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
MennoSota said:
I should have known this has turned into a pissing match.
2ed36da7e9d504f4db5b6775df82283f.jpg
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well, it was started by horndog, so it's pretty much inevitable



you're the new kid here - what's your take on it?


does horndog's op have any merit?

The Horn said:
Here are some misconceptions about liberals and liberalism which conservatives believe :

1 Liberals are socialists, Marxists ad communists . Liberals are not communists and communists are not liberals . Liberalism and communism are polar opposites .
2. Liberals are atheists . Some are, but only some . Some are agnostics .
3. Liberals are anti-christian , hate Christians and want to persecute them . Wrong. Many liberals ARE Christians. The only thing they are opposed to is to is theocracy - theocracy in any religion , not only Christianity . Or allowing religion to get more power in government .
4. Liberals like abortion and want to increase the abortion rate . Nothing could be farther form the truth . Liberals want to PREVENT as many abortions as possible, by preventing unwanted pregnancies .
The only reason they are pro-choice is because they realize that it is absolutely futile to stop abortion by making it illegal, and that this actually causes a higher abortion rate , causes the deaths of many women from botched illegal ones and leaves many children without mothers .
5. Liberals are antibusiness and don't want anyone to be rich, and want to take most money away from the rich .
Wrong. They aren't opposed to people being rich per se - all they want is for rich people to pay their fair share in taxes . If they did this, they would still be able to live in great luxury .
7. Liberals believe in "big government ". They believe government should be as big as it needs to be - no more and no less .
8. Liberals are trying to "promote " homosexuality . Liberals are trying to promote TOLERANCE for gay people and want them to have equal rights . You can't "promote" homosexuality any more than you can "promote " heterosexuality .
9. Liberals are sexually promiscuous and licentious . No more so than conservatives . In many cases, less so !
10 . Liberals support Islamic terrorism and condone violence by Muslims . Not at all . All liberals want is for the peaceful, law-abiding Muslim majority to be treated with tolerance and respect . What they deplore is the stereotyping and scapegoating of Muslims as being inherently fanatical and violent .
11. Liberals have no problem with violent Hispanics coming across the border ,taking jobs from Americans, and sponging off the US government . They support using illegal aliens to vote for Democratic politicians .
Poppycock ! First of all, the overwhelming majority of the illegal aliens who have come across the border are NOT violent criminals and the vast majority can't even afford guns !
They feel that those who have come across the border previously should be allowed a path to citizenship if they have been peaceful,law-abiding and have worked hard, which is true of the vast majority of them .
Stories of the Democratic party using illegal Hispanics to vote are an urban legend .
12. Liberals want to "indoctrinate " kids in public school with Marxism, communism, tolerance of gay people , etc . Again, poppycock . Teaching tolerance of gay people is the MORAL thing to do .
13. Liberals want to crush the free speech of conservatives . Some American universities have ridiculous speech codes which DO crush free speech , but these codes are AUTHORITARIAN, not liberal . Liberals have no problem otherwise with conservatives saying whatever they want .
14. Liberals are crazy , tree hugging environmental wackos . This kind of environmental extremism is not typical of liberals . But what the heck is wrong with being concerned abut pollution , wanting to protect the environment from it , and wanting to prevent greedy, unscrupulous CEOs of oil companies from despoiling the environment with impunity ? Absolutely nothing !
In fact, anyone who DOESN'T want to protect the environment is just plain stupid !
Click to expand...
 
ok doser

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
MennoSota said:
Are you referring to classical liberalism versus classical conservatism or are you talking about progressive liberalism?
What defines the progressive movement is the undying ideology of humanism, which is the cornerstone for socialism, communism, anarchy, enviromentalism, darwinism/naturalism and fascism.
The underlying idea is that humans are naturally good and given the proper stimulus humans can create a society that is inclusive of all persons.
Of course this underlying idea goes contrary to God's word, which says that humans are desperately wicked and in outright rebellion to God. Humans, left unchecked, will stratify themselves and fight for power and dominance. Humans will trick, lie, steal and fight their way to power and then create laws designed to grant themselves power while weakening those who would attempt to reach the same level of power.
Observation tells the rational human that God is correct, but power hungry persons will ignore God and push humanism in an effort to gain power.
Click to expand...

oh, i see you did reply to it - a coupla pointers - theHorn is a nice guy, excitable at times and quirky - very quirky

but...

he's often gone for long periods of time and he often responds unpredictably - i believe he has some vision problems
 
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M

MennoSota

New member
ok doser said:
well, it was started by horndog, so it's pretty much inevitable



you're the new kid here - what's your take on it?


does horndog's op have any merit?
Click to expand...
I have shared my opinion.
The gist of the issue is not that of liberal or conservative, but rather whether we support God's view of man or whether we support man's view of man (humanism).
 
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