ECT Metaphoric Circumcision, The Everlasting Covenant and Bringing of Gentiles Into It

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northwye

New member
Metaphoric Circumcision, The Everlasting Covenant and the Bringing of Gentiles Into It

"And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised." Leviticus 12: 3

But ......."Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked." Deuteronomy 10: 16

And........"And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live." Deuteronomy 30: 6

"Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings." Jeremiah 4: 4

Then in Romans 2: 28-29 Paul says "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

Was literal circumcision of Genesis 17: 10-14 and Leviticus 12: 3 just a shadow, as in Colossians 2: 16-17, of that substance which was to come when Jesus Christ appeared, the "circumcision" of the heart, being born again in Christ, so the soul could live eternally with Christ? And was that metaphoric circumcision in Deuteronomy 10: 6. Deuteronomy 30: 6 and In Jeremiah 4: 4 to be done also by a remnant in the Old Covenant? And is that Old Covenant remnant which is shown, with some named, in Hebrews 11. those who had faith, the remnant then who were metaphorically circumcised. The dispensationalists with their literal "Hermeneutic" do not like metaphors and so would reject this interpretation.

And is not that metaphoric circumcision of the heart - resulting in love of the truth (II Thessalonians 2: 10-12) - which is faith in the word of God, a part of the everlasting covenant?

Isaiah mentions the Everlasting Covenant seven times, in 42:6; 49:8; 54:10, 55:3, 56:4,6; 59:21, 61:8

"I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;" Isaiah 42: 6

"And they shall be my people, and I will be their God: 39. And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them: 40. And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me." Jeremiah 32: 38-40

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments, and do them............Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them...." Ezekiel 36: 26-27. 37:26

Since the Old Covenant was done away with (II Corinthians 3: 7, 3: 11, Hebrews 10: 9), then the covenant which is to be everlasting is the New Covenant. Isaiah 61: 8, supported by Jeremiah 32: 40, Jeremiah 50: 5,Ezekiel 16: 60 and Ezekiel 37: 26.

Hebrews 13: 20-21 talks about The "... blood of the everlasting covenant, make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight" The New Covenant is everlasting, not a temporary "dispensation," which is to give way to another dispensation of law for the people of the physical bloodline in some future time.

Hebrews 7: 22 says "By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament." And Hebrews 8: 6 says "But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises."

"And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance." Hebrews 9: 15

Since Jesus Christ himself is the mediator of the New Covenant, the spiritual light which shines into the hearts of the believers in the New Covenant is greater than the light shining in the Old Covenant.

"The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts." Haggai 2: 9.

And under the New Covenant those not of the chosen people physical bloodline were brought into the people of God as equals. The elect of God are not chosen under the New Covenant according to their physical bloodline, but are chosen according to their faith as Galatians 3 says.

"Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
5.Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee." Isaiah 55: 4-5

"And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God." Hosea 2: 23
 
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D

DAN P

Well-known member
northwye said:
Metaphoric Circumcision, The Everlasting Covenant and the Bringing of Gentiles Into It

"And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised." Leviticus 12: 3

But ......."Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked." Deuteronomy 10: 16

And........"And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live." Deuteronomy 30: 6

"Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings." Jeremiah 4: 4

Then in Romans 11: 28-29 Paul says "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

Was literal circumcision of Genesis 17: 10-14 and Leviticus 12: 3 just a shadow, as in Colossians 2: 16-17, of that substance which was to come when Jesus Christ appeared, the "circumcision" of the heart, being born again in Christ, so the soul could live eternally with Christ? And was that metaphoric circumcision in Deuteronomy 10: 6. Deuteronomy 30: 6 and In Jeremiah 4: 4 to be done also by a remnant in the Old Covenant? And is that Old Covenant remnant which is shown, with some named, in Hebrews 11. those who had faith, the remnant then who were metaphorically circumcised. The dispensationalists with their literal "Hermeneutic" do not like metaphors and so would reject this interpretation.

And is not that metaphoric circumcision of the heart - resulting in love of the truth (II Thessalonians 2: 10-12) - which is faith in the word of God, a part of the everlasting covenant?

Isaiah mentions the Everlasting Covenant seven times, in 42:6; 49:8; 54:10, 55:3, 56:4,6; 59:21, 61:8

"I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;" Isaiah 42: 6

"And they shall be my people, and I will be their God: 39. And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them: 40. And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me." Jeremiah 32: 38-40

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments, and do them............Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them...." Ezekiel 36: 26-27. 37:26

Since the Old Covenant was done away with (II Corinthians 3: 7, 3: 11, Hebrews 10: 9), then the covenant which is to be everlasting is the New Covenant. Isaiah 61: 8, supported by Jeremiah 32: 40, Jeremiah 50: 5,Ezekiel 16: 60 and Ezekiel 37: 26.

Hebrews 13: 20-21 talks about The "... blood of the everlasting covenant, make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight" The New Covenant is everlasting, not a temporary "dispensation," which is to give way to another dispensation of law for the people of the physical bloodline in some future time.

Hebrews 7: 22 says "By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament." And Hebrews 8: 6 says "But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises."

"And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance." Hebrews 9: 15

Since Jesus Christ himself is the mediator of the New Covenant, the spiritual light which shines into the hearts of the believers in the New Covenant is greater than the light shining in the Old Covenant.

"The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts." Haggai 2: 9.

And under the New Covenant those not of the chosen people physical bloodline were brought into the people of God as equals. The elect of God are not chosen under the New Covenant according to their physical bloodline, but are chosen according to their faith as Galatians 3 says.

"Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
5.Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee." Isaiah 55: 4-5

"And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God." Hosea 2: 23
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Hi and what is I see , is your CONTEXT and that makes it NULL and VOID !!

Just a lot of FAKE NEWS that Gentiles are Israel or that Jews are Christian and the B O C is a NEW CREATION where every one LOSE their IDENTITY " in Christ " Jesus !!

dan p
 
N

northwye

New member
On TOL dispensationalism becomes clearly a quarrel against the Gospel of Christ and the prophecies of the coming of that Gospel in the Old Testament.

Paul in I Timothy 6: 20-21 says to avoid the anti-thesis of falsely called knowledge. The thesis is the Gospel of Christ and the anti-thesis is various specific forms of quarreling against that thesis.
 
D

DAN P

Well-known member
northwye said:
On TOL dispensationalism becomes clearly a quarrel against the Gospel of Christ and the prophecies of the coming of that Gospel in the Old Testament.

Paul in I Timothy 6: 20-21 says to avoid the anti-thesis of falsely called knowledge. The thesis is the Gospel of Christ and the anti-thesis is various specific forms of quarreling against that thesis.
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Hi and you have written is not for today !!

dan p
 
Ktoyou

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
northwye said:
On TOL dispensationalism becomes clearly a quarrel against the Gospel of Christ and the prophecies of the coming of that Gospel in the Old Testament.

Paul in I Timothy 6: 20-21 says to avoid the anti-thesis of falsely called knowledge. The thesis is the Gospel of Christ and the anti-thesis is various specific forms of quarreling against that thesis.
Click to expand...

Your exegesis of 1 timothy 6:20-21 is very poor, your interpretation is whimsical and inaccurate.
 
N

northwye

New member
"Your exegesis of 1 timothy 6:20-21 is very poor, your interpretation is whimsical and inaccurate. "

Saying this without saying what your interpretation is of the text is meaningless. All you are saying is that you personally do not like the interpretation I gave.
 
N

northwye

New member
I do not know how those who follow the church theologies would see this thread. I made one comment about the literalists not following the view that there are Old Testament texts dealing with circumcision in a metaphoric way, and that points to the dispensationalists, but literalists are not limited to them. Church theologies might also disagree with the interpretation that Hebrews 11 is about a remnant of Old Covenant Israel, who were of faith. Dispensationalism opposes, according to J. Dwight Pentecost, the remnant in the church age.

"From the time of Christ’s rejection by Israel until the time when God deals specifically with Israel again in the seventieth week it is not possible to refer to a remnant of the nation Israel." Things to Come: A Study in Biblical Eschatology, 1965, by J. Dwight Pentecost

Christian Zionism does not deal with the remnant as a small number who continue to be faithful to Christ in a time of apostasy, except the Christian Zionists do have their own version of the remnant called the 144,000 in Revelation 7 and 14. They link that remnant to their end time scenario saying that God will turn back to the physical descendants of Abraham to deal with them again. So, the 144,000 in Christian Zionism are all of the physical bloodline.
 
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northwye

New member
On I Timothy 6: 20-21, the key part in Greek says "και αντιθεσεις της ψευδωνυμου γνωσεως,or "and anti-thesis of falsely called knowledge."

Do you know how to show the Greek letters as Latin letters of our alphabet?

αντιθεσεις, or anti-thesis, is a technical term in the early Greek philosophy of the διαλεκτική, or dialectic, before the time of Christ. Other Greek words mean opposition such as anthistémi, antidiatithémi, antipolítef̱si̱, or enantío̱si̱.
 
D

Danoh

New member
northwye said:
On I Timothy 6: 20-21, the key part in Greek says "και αντιθεσεις της ψευδωνυμου γνωσεως,or "and anti-thesis of falsely called knowledge."

Do you know how to show the Greek letters as Latin letters of our alphabet?

αντιθεσεις, or anti-thesis, is a technical term in the early Greek philosophy of the διαλεκτική, or dialectic, before the time of Christ. Other Greek words mean opposition such as anthistémi, antidiatithémi, antipolítef̱si̱, or enantío̱si̱.
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In other words, your OP is a self-portrait.

Fact of the matter is that until your kind realize your supposed understanding is based in endless books "about" not only read by your kind "into" the Scripture, but parroted by your kind in suceeding books "about" - until your kind finally realize that yours is the "science so falsely called" that the Apostle Paul was encouraging Pastor Timothy to stand against; you will continue to beat against the air much like the Don Quixote you have long continually proven yourself to be on here - self-deceived in your belief that you are on to something you are unjustly being opposed for.

You're a quack dime a dozen.

Yours is "store bought" intellect.

Which has rendered your every post completely useless but to your same "store bought" club.

Put the books away, bookworm.

It is high time your kind do.

Plough through that mess so obviously entrenched in the very heart of your mind with the following...until the following liberates you from your obvious "store bought" self-delusion...

2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
northwye said:
Metaphoric Circumcision, The Everlasting Covenant and the Bringing of Gentiles Into It

"And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised." Leviticus 12: 3

But ......."Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked." Deuteronomy 10: 16

And........"And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live." Deuteronomy 30: 6

"Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings." Jeremiah 4: 4

Then in Romans 11: 28-29 Paul says "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

Was literal circumcision of Genesis 17: 10-14 and Leviticus 12: 3 just a shadow, as in Colossians 2: 16-17, of that substance which was to come when Jesus Christ appeared, the "circumcision" of the heart, being born again in Christ, so the soul could live eternally with Christ? And was that metaphoric circumcision in Deuteronomy 10: 6. Deuteronomy 30: 6 and In Jeremiah 4: 4 to be done also by a remnant in the Old Covenant? And is that Old Covenant remnant which is shown, with some named, in Hebrews 11. those who had faith, the remnant then who were metaphorically circumcised. The dispensationalists with their literal "Hermeneutic" do not like metaphors and so would reject this interpretation.

And is not that metaphoric circumcision of the heart - resulting in love of the truth (II Thessalonians 2: 10-12) - which is faith in the word of God, a part of the everlasting covenant?

Isaiah mentions the Everlasting Covenant seven times, in 42:6; 49:8; 54:10, 55:3, 56:4,6; 59:21, 61:8

"I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;" Isaiah 42: 6

"And they shall be my people, and I will be their God: 39. And I will give them one heart, and one way, that they may fear me for ever, for the good of them, and of their children after them: 40. And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me." Jeremiah 32: 38-40

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments, and do them............Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them...." Ezekiel 36: 26-27. 37:26

Since the Old Covenant was done away with (II Corinthians 3: 7, 3: 11, Hebrews 10: 9), then the covenant which is to be everlasting is the New Covenant. Isaiah 61: 8, supported by Jeremiah 32: 40, Jeremiah 50: 5,Ezekiel 16: 60 and Ezekiel 37: 26.

Hebrews 13: 20-21 talks about The "... blood of the everlasting covenant, make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight" The New Covenant is everlasting, not a temporary "dispensation," which is to give way to another dispensation of law for the people of the physical bloodline in some future time.

Hebrews 7: 22 says "By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament." And Hebrews 8: 6 says "But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises."

"And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance." Hebrews 9: 15

Since Jesus Christ himself is the mediator of the New Covenant, the spiritual light which shines into the hearts of the believers in the New Covenant is greater than the light shining in the Old Covenant.

"The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former, saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts." Haggai 2: 9.

And under the New Covenant those not of the chosen people physical bloodline were brought into the people of God as equals. The elect of God are not chosen under the New Covenant according to their physical bloodline, but are chosen according to their faith as Galatians 3 says.

"Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.
5.Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee." Isaiah 55: 4-5

"And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God." Hosea 2: 23
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Thanks, North. The accusation of the day by D'ism seems to be that D'ism has everything right because there is one program after the other, not a joining or unification.

btw, The first Romans reference should be ch 2, not 11.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
northwye said:
On TOL dispensationalism becomes clearly a quarrel against the Gospel of Christ and the prophecies of the coming of that Gospel in the Old Testament.

Paul in I Timothy 6: 20-21 says to avoid the anti-thesis of falsely called knowledge. The thesis is the Gospel of Christ and the anti-thesis is various specific forms of quarreling against that thesis.
Click to expand...

:chuckle:
 
N

northwye

New member
In I Timothy 6: 20-21, the key part in Greek says "και αντιθεσεις της ψευδωνυμου γνωσεως,or "and anti-thesis of falsely called knowledge."

The William Tyndale translation of I Timothy 6: 20-21 says "O Timothy save that which is given ye to keep and avoid ungostly vanities of voices and oppositions of science falsely so called
21 which science while some professed they have erred as concerning the faith. Grace be with the Amen."

"and oppositions of science falsely so called"

The King James Version follows Tyndale and says "and oppositions of science falsely so called."

The Tyndale New Testament was translated in the time of 1525 to 1530. Isaac Newton was born in 1642, over a hundred years after Tyndale's translation. Tyndale may have understood the word science to mean something closer to alchemy than experimental physics. Even Newton, the father of experimental physics and astronomy, played around with alchemy.

Tyndale translated αντιθεσεις as oppositions. In the dialectic the anti-thesis is an opposition to the thesis.

Tyndale translated ψευδωνυμου as falsely so called. Which is accurate.

He translated γνωσεως, gnoseos, or gnosos, as science. Knowledge would be a better translation.

But the key word is αντιθεσεις, anti-thesis.

Translating anti-thesis as oppositions makes the warning in I Timothy 6: 20 more general and less specific than the word anti-thesis implies.

The implication of using the Greek word αντιθεσεις. anti-thesis, is that Paul is warning Timothy not to make use of the διαλεκτική, or dialectic. This makes the warning more specific than translating αντιθεσεις as oppositions and using science for γνωσεως, gnoseos, knowledge.

The question is whether Paul writing in the First Century could have been aware of the use of the dialectic in Greek philosophy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic

"Dialectic (also dialectics and the dialectical method), from Ancient Greek διαλεκτική, is a method of argument.....The word dialectic originated in ancient Greece, and was made popular by Plato in the Socratic dialogues."

"In classical philosophy, dialectic (Greek: διαλεκτική) is a form of reasoning based upon dialogue of arguments and counter-arguments, advocating propositions (theses) and counter-propositions (antitheses)."

"Aristotle said that it was the pre-Socratic philosopher Zeno of Elea who invented dialectic, of which the dialogues of Plato are the examples of the Socratic dialectical method."

Science in I Timothy 6: 20 is from Strong's number 1108, gnosis, meaning "knowing,, i.e, by implication knowledge, science." Knowledge is a better translation of gnosis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesis...sis,_synthesis

"Hegel used the "thesis-antithesis-synthesis" idea only once, and he attributed the terminology to Immanuel Kant. The terminology was largely developed by Johann Gottlieb Fichte, also an advocate of the philosophy identified as German idealism. "

"Karl Marx (1818-1883) and Friedrich Engels (1820-1895) adopted and extended the triad, especially in Marx's The Poverty of Philosophy (1847). Here, in Chapter 2, Marx is obsessed by the word "thesis". It can be said to form an important part of the basis for the Marxist theory..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx#Hegelianism_and_early_activism:_1836.E2.80.931843

"Marx became interested in the recently deceased German philosopher G. W. F. Hegel, whose ideas were then widely debated among European philosophical circles.[38] During a convalescence in Stralau, he joined the Doctor's Club (Doktorklub), a student group which discussed Hegelian ideas, and through them became involved with a group of radical thinkers known as the Young Hegelians in 1837; they gathered around Ludwig Feuerbach and Bruno Bauer, with Marx developing a particularly close friendship with Adolf Rutenberg. Like Marx, the Young Hegelians were critical of Hegel's metaphysical assumptions, but adopted his dialectical method in order to criticise established society, politics, and religion from a leftist perspective."

Since Paul was educated, he could very well have known about the dialectic method of making arguments in earlier Greek philosophy, using the thesis and the anti-thesis, arguments and counter-arguments.

The German philosopher Hegel brought the dialectic method of argument into modern philosophy, and Marx developed his own version of the dialectic as a procedure to bring about change in ways of thinking.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
So if you don't oppose things like that, what is Acts' 13:46s "boldness" about? Or 17:2's "reasoning" (bearing in mind the audience had background in the OT too). Or Titus 1:9.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Hopefully North will weigh in, because the neo-Judaistic default position of STP for 2 years now has been that Paul taught D'ism and was opposed by ??? in Little Asia. Instead, Paul taught Christocentricity and that Judaism was invalidated. 'Those in Asia who have deserted me' were either Judaisers (it's all through the doctrinal letters) or caved to pressure from Judaizers.

Paul opposed their antithesis and their RT.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Hopefully North will weigh in, because the neo-Judaistic default position of STP for 2 years now has been that Paul taught D'ism and was opposed by ??? in Little Asia. Instead, Paul taught Christocentricity and that Judaism was invalidated. 'Those in Asia who have deserted me' were either Judaisers (it's all through the doctrinal letters) or caved to pressure from Judaizers.

Paul opposed their antithesis and their RT.
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Made up.
 
N

northwye

New member
"But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth." Acts 13: 45-47

Speaking boldly is from παρρησιασαμενοι, parrésiazomai, meaning "I speak freely, boldly; I am confident."

The Jews - those then following Talmudic Judaism, the religion of he Pharisees, the multitude in Judaism then, not the remnant - opposed the Gospel of Christ. But Paul and Barnabas strongly opposed that opposition to the Gospel, which is an opposition to the truth and to the love of the truth.

"Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
10. For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11. Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake." Titus 1: 9-11

Paul is telling us to hold on to the word of God, and to use it as sound doctrine to expose, convict or reprove the "gainsayers."

τους αντιλεγοντας ελεγχειν

See: http://biblehub.com/greek/483.htm

αντιλεγοντας, or ἀντιλέγω, antilegó, meaning "speak or say in opposition."

"Gainsayers" might not be understood by readers in 2017. Those who speak in opposition to the Gospel of Christ is more easily understood.

How about the other Greek word ελεγχειν, elegchó, meaning according to http://biblehub.com/greek/1651.htm, "reprove, rebuke, discipline, expose, show to be guilty. "

τους αντιλεγοντας ελεγχειν means "to expose those who oppose," or to convict those who oppose (the Gospel of Christ).
 
N

northwye

New member
"Gainsayers" in Titus 1: 9-10 - "Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
10. For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:"


gainsayer, Noun

"One who contradicts or denies what is alleged; an opposer.
A person who gainsays others; a disagreeable person."

Origin: From Middle English aȝenseyere, equivalent to gainsay
 
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