Agreed.
So then, if while we were yet sinners we place our trust in Christ, is He faithful and just to forgive us?
Reconciled to God How?
- Thread starter beloved57
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Agreed.
So then, if while we were yet sinners we place our trust in Christ, is He faithful and just to forgive us?
Nanja
Well-known member
Read it again:
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
beloved57
Well-known member
Right, I agree with that.
And thus my question to you.
If God has reconciled the world through Christ (and He has, 2 Corinthians 5:19), then if someone places their trust in the faithfulness of Christ, will God save them (because He is faithful and just to forgive)?
Nanja
Well-known member
Nanja
Well-known member
That's nothing but a work a person does. Salvation is not of works Eph. 2:8-9 !
I agree completely that salvation is not of works.
Could you point out in scripture where it says that placing one's trust in Christ is a work?
Because as far as I'm aware, Paul did not contradict himself when he wrote Romans 10:9-10 and Ephesians 2:8-9...
Nanja
Well-known member
The word Work is the Greek word Ergon:
G2041: ergon
1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasized in opp. to that which is less than work
beloved57
Well-known member
Amen!
I notice that even though I asked for scripture, I only got a definition, which could be used to support your position, but such is not a necessary outcome, but rather somewhat forced.
Nanja, or perhaps even beloved57 , could you please provide scripture that says or indicates that placing one's trust in Christ's completed work is in and of itself a work?
Because, again, from what I can tell from Paul's writings, it's not, as per Romans 10:
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” - Romans 10:9-13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans10:9-13&version=NKJV
Question: When a man and woman both say "I do" when they get married, is it a work? Is that not "confessing with one's mouth," and yet it completely changes both of their entire lives?
beloved57
Well-known member
You and I have the answer, it was when they were unbelievers/enemies. So we do err if we say it was when they were already believers. See reconciliation to God is the fruit of Christs death, not mens faith !
Nanja
Well-known member
Absolutely Brother !
Nanja
Well-known member
All the ones Christ died for are sanctified, made holy [hagiazo]: by His Death / the offering of His Body on their behalf; to purify them internally by renewing of the soul; and so set apart once and for all, present and future. Basically this means being made into a new creature; a new man created !
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Now if one is never transformed into a New Creature [Born Again Spiritually] in their lifetime, they weren't any Christ's death was for.
Titus 3:5-6
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Nanja
Well-known member
Amen Brother, always appreciate your scriptural Godly comments and fellowship in the Truth!
Nanja
Well-known member
Exactly Brother ! For the word Sanctified here in Heb. 10:10, is in the Perfect Tense meaning: A once and for all completed act from the past which effects the Present and Future.
So none of those Christ died for [God's Elect: Rom. 8:33-34; His Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23] can ever come under guilt and condemnation for sin Rom. 8:1;
as those which shall die in their sins John 8:24.
And It is because they are God's elect, that each one of them shall be sanctified internally; transformed into a New Creation Eph. 4:24 and renewed by the Holy Ghost Titus 3:5 !
Now all the rest of humanity are forever condemned:
Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.