His Father or His father?
The New Testament is Jewish
- Thread starter Jacob
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beloved57
Well-known member
Thats it, our conversation is over. You cant understand very simple things ! Take care
Do you know what makes a Jew a Jew?
What do you believe is an ethnic jew? Is this your idea?
I have heard the idea before.
Were you born a Jew? I was not. I am a convert.
Do you know what the word ethnic or ethnos means?
Israel is God's chosen nation. I am glad to be a part of Israel. God has given us so much.
What about the nations of the world? There is Israel and there are other nations as well.
You may have a context or something you are thinking of when you say ethnic jew. Is there a definition you know? Is so, where did it come from? Is it the right way to be thinking? Are you saying when a person is a Jew and knows they are a Jew and of Israel? Were they born a Jew? What is your, or the, requirement for being an ethnic jew? Do you know any Jews who use this term? Is it a label? Is it a proper way for any Jew to think of himself? Did the idea or terminology originate with the Jews? This is something you may need to consider.
I have heard there is nothing wrong with being an ethnic Jew. If we are to learn, we can learn from here. But we have not answered the why to this question. The why people refer to others, or refer to themselves (do you have any witness testimony of this? Where does this idea come from? Do Jews answer this question of themselves or of what others have said about them?) as ethnic jews.
You are incorrect. Believe the scriptures, God's written word. God bless. Shalom.
We should and ought to agree with others about scripture. May God reveal to you His truth in His written word, both what it says and what you need to know as you live your life to the glory of God.
Do you know what the gospel is?
Have you been born again of the Spirit of God? Are you saved? Did you know that Jesus died for you for the forgiveness of your sins and that you would be granted the free gift of eternal life? Please read the context of and for these scriptures.
John 3:3 NASB - Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
John 3:7 NASB - "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
1 Peter 1:3 NASB - Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 Peter 1:23 NASB - for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.
See John 11:25-26.
Acts 24:15 NASB - having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.
Revelation 2:11 NASB - 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'
Revelation 20:6 NASB - Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:14 NASB - Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8 NASB - "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
Romans 1:16-17 NASB - 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
Romans 3:19-26 NASB - 19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. 21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Romans 8:1-4 NASB - 1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Acts 16:31 NASB - 31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
1 Corinthians 15:1-11 NASB - 1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
I do read scripture and read were some did accept and were persecuted by those who did not...beginning before the crucifiction...the leaders and representatives of Judaism rejected Him and His followers were fearful of them...
today's Jew is not the biblical Jew...from the tribe of Judah
or maybe I will find someone who claims to be from another Tribe of Israel. Who knows?
Feel free to read the whole chapter which discusses the rejection of Truth by Israel...even in EliYah's time...
Paul even teaches God Himself blinded them so that Gentiles can be reconciled...
And by our reconciliation cause those who once rejected to be jealous and become obedient once more...and return as part of Israel not Judah or Jews...(that tribe a conspiracy was found in...)
Elsewhere Paul is clear it was to Abraham's Seed, singular and capitalized as denoting Someone and not plural lower case seeds, his physical descendants...
Understandable that those who say they are but are not do not accept the Truth...teaching Jews that they are blinded by God Himself for the benefit of Gentiles TO REACH JEWS is not something Jews like to hear...
Even those like you who would rather ignore and pretend otherwise...being an anomaly to what a Jew is...despite His teaching that in Him the Seed of Abraham, there is no Jew...
I don't know what to say here. This is what you are saying a biblical Jew is.
I don't know what you are saying here.
Romans 11:25 NASB - For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery--so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
I don't know if this is a matter of what you mean hear, what you have said here, or me not finding what you are referring to here.
Can I help with something here?
I don't know what you mean.
I am not sure what you mean.
I am not understanding you here. I believe study of the scriptures or reading scripture will help you here. Whose teaching? And, what do you mean by saying in Him (who?) there is no Jew? I encourage you to read the scriptures so that what you say is the result of your studies, but that you would first have a right understanding. Your understanding may change with exposure to scripture. I don't know why you believe what you do now. I am not even sure I understand what you believe here. You can change what you believe here. I can help if you want me to. We can look at the scriptures together. We can even talk about what you believe. I don't know where you are getting your idea or ideas here. What we believe should be the result of what we learn in and from scripture. May that be the case as we move forward here, growing in our understanding of God's word. May we understand the truth of God's word. May your studies prove fruitful as you diligently apply yourself to the subject of scripture, God's written word. May your doctrine and what you teach and say come from scripture. You may need to share what verse you are thinking of, if you are thinking of a verse. Then read more scripture, or read more scripture verse so that you come to a correct understanding of what the truth is, through study. May God by His Spirit help you here to understand rightly His word. Shalom! I am here for you! Let me know if you need any help with anything.
I can think of Romans 1:16-17 NASB. I don't know if that helps you. But this is a reference I have memorized.
"And, what do you mean by saying in Him (who?) there is no Jew?"
And now even here you reject Him still...
Yes, read carefully Romans 1:17 notice how it says righteous man...and not righteous Jew...
Even though the gospel came to the Jew first...
And was rejected...
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I neither reject the Father nor the Son.
I don't see the words righteous man there. But it does say the just, and it refers to either Jew or Greek.
No. It was accepted. The early church, the church in its conception, was entirely Jewish. You are correct that not everyone accepted. But ministry continued among those who were unsaved. There is the life and ministry of Jesus. And there is what Israel did after Jesus died and rose from the dead. Many believed. The Spirit of God was poured out on believing Jews first. We can talk about the church, Jesus' church, here, and the proclamation of the gospel, the sharing of the good news of salvation in Jesus Christ, beginning at Jerusalem. There was a command to make disciples. People are still making disciples today.
Your initial verse posted was this:
"17 For in it athe righteousness of God is revealed 1from faith to faith; as it is written, “2bBut the righteous man shall live by faith."NASB
but now a different version/translation is used...that you wish to be clever and sneaky or in denial is revealing...
Your conversion was a complete success...He was right about you and yours...
And now, in Him, they are not called Jews...as in Him, there are none...
You can call them Just but not Jews...they are something else...as you demonstrated
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The verse reference you provided reveals the NKJV in the hover text. I have grown up with the NASB. Either translation is fine. I have no problem with "righteous man". I believe I have known this in the past. But in this case I just read the verse as I believe you had posted or wanted me to see it. I just read the verse as provided.
I don't know what or who you are talking about.
What you are saying makes no sense to me. Please don't go beyond scripture in what you are saying. I don't see what you are saying in scripture. It is something else, man's idea, made up. I don't know if you believe this to be your idea or if you have adopted it from elsewhere as your idea.
I don't know what you are talking about. It sounds to me like you have something against someone and I have no idea why. You should have nothing against the Jews.
Romans 11:13-14, 17, 23, 28-36 NASB - 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them. ... 17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, ... 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. ... 28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. 33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34 For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? 35 Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? 36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
Paul clarifies in Him there is no Jew...
They reject Him and in rejecting His Son...
"From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake"...there is a reason for that...
I don't know what to make of what you are saying here. In who? And, why do you say there is no Jew? This is not Biblical.
Honor the Father and the Son
Yes, but that is only those who did not believe. If they believe they are not enemies. Was Paul encouraging them with this? Not that any would call them enemies, but that in recognizing people who have rejected or not accepted Christ we know people are not living righteously and not believing God and not accepting His Son the Messiah, but we don't do anything against them. Plus, those Paul was writing about was in the time of Paul. Remember, all Jews, all those of Israel, from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
Romans 11:28 NASB - 28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
I think Paul may just be recognizing some might see them as enemies, but that he himself loves them.
Romans 11:12-15 NASB - 12 Now if their transgression is riches for the world and their failure is riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their fulfillment be! 13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
Romans 9:1-33 NASB - 1 I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, 5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen. 6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED." 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. 9 For this is the word of promise: "AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON." 10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12 it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER." 13 Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED." 14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. 19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. 25 As He says also in Hosea,"I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, 'MY PEOPLE,'AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, 'BELOVED.'" 26 "AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, 'YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,'THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD." 27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE SONS OF ISRAEL BE LIKE THE SAND OF THE SEA, IT IS THE REMNANT THAT WILL BE SAVED; 28 FOR THE LORD WILL EXECUTE HIS WORD ON THE EARTH, THOROUGHLY AND QUICKLY." 29 And just as Isaiah foretold,"UNLESS THE LORD OF SABAOTH HAD LEFT TO US A POSTERITY,WE WOULD HAVE BECOME LIKE SODOM, AND WOULD HAVE RESEMBLED GOMORRAH." 30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 just as it is written,"BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE,AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
you mean to tell me you don't know this reference? You are either lying or quite new to scripture.
Who? Christ...Jacob...Christ...the Messiah...Lord of the Sabbath made for all man...
Paul teaches in Christ there is no Jew...
Spin it any way you need to...sure He loves all but the disobedient unbelieving are not in Him...those in Him are not Jews...
I don't know what you are talking about. Here is the concordance search for "no Jew".
Jeremiah 34:9 NASB - that each man should set free his male servant and each man his female servant, a Hebrew man or a Hebrew woman; so that no one should keep them, a Jew his brother, in bondage.
John 4:9 NASB - Therefore the Samaritan woman said to Him, "How is it that You, being a Jew, ask me for a drink since I am a Samaritan woman?" (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.)
Acts 21:39 NASB - But Paul said, "I am a Jew of Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no insignificant city; and I beg you, allow me to speak to the people."
Romans 10:12 NASB - For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
Colossians 3:11 NASB - a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.
Your denial of His ability to supersede and transcend the Jew...
Even in your silly search, evidence continues to support there is no Jew in Christ...Jews are distinct...work hard at it and are quite happy to hold on to Judea and other things of this world...not Christ...
Even He pointed out their desired distinction to follow their own traditions rather than follow Him...
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God is the God of all. There is only one God.
God is the God of the Jews. He is also the God of the Gentiles.
As for what you are saying I cannot agree. I believe you can continue to learn from the scriptures if not from me. God uses people to communicate His word to us. First and foremost you should be learning from scripture. This is one thing a good Bible teacher knows.
so far so good...
yup and He had a Son...Jews reject that part...so they reject Him...and His Son...
well yes ...But again, He is rejected...in fact is why His son came as the messiah, born as one of them, killed by their instruction and resurrected...and still now also rejected
well sure...that was always true...even more so when He had His Son come for us...
Ok...but it still stands that those who do not believe in Him are not in Him...and those that do believe in Him are no longer Jewish...
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