I have a question about observing God’s commands in light of New Testament scriptures

Clete

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I have not thought you to be a waste of time at all. May God bless you in your studies and as you live your life for Him. Shalom.

That's because I haven't been a waste of your time!

I've spent the effort to substantively answer the question posed by the thread and to make an extensive and PURELY biblical arguments in defense of it.

Iron sharpens iron, Jacob. Attempting to sharpen iron with "shalom" wishing, self-repetitive, wet noodles is a waste of time.
 

Jacob

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That's because I haven't been a waste of your time!

I've spent the effort to substantively answer the question posed by the thread and to make an extensive and PURELY biblical arguments in defense of it.

Iron sharpens iron, Jacob. Attempting to sharpen iron with "shalom" wishing, self-repetitive, wet noodles is a waste of time.

May you know God's peace. :)

1 Corinthians 9:23 NASB - 23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

Philippians 2:14 NASB - 14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing;
 

intojoy

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You are correct.

When you read a command of God in the New Testament do you accept it as a command you should observe? Do you believe it is from God's Law or a new covenant command? Are there new covenant commands?

We in the Body of Christ have been given a rule of life that we are to obey as part of our daily walk.

The Old Testament laws that were given to mankind as a whole under Noah apply to us. And some of the 613 laws of Moses are repeated in the New Testament which makes them obligatory for us as well.

The rules of life for believers are not a means of salvation they are commandments for those who've been regenerated.

Because of the power of the Holy Spirit we are able to keep these commands but not perfectly due to the flesh.


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Jacob

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We in the Body of Christ have been given a rule of life that we are to obey as part of our daily walk.

The Old Testament laws that were given to mankind as a whole under Noah apply to us. And some of the 613 laws of Moses are repeated in the New Testament which makes them obligatory for us as well.

The rules of life for believers are not a means of salvation they are commandments for those who've been regenerated.

Because of the power of the Holy Spirit we are able to keep these commands but not perfectly due to the flesh.

Believers ought to obey God's commands. There is a minimum requirement for all who believe. Salvation is not by the Law. Gentiles do not need to be circumcised. But Gentiles are required to obey God.

Romans 2:12-16, 26-29 NASB - 12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. ... 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

1 Corinthians 9:19, 21, 23 NASB - 19 For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. ... 21 to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. ... 23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

Acts 15:1-41 NASB - 1 Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." 2 And when Paul and Barnabas had great dissension and debate with them, the brethren determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue. 3 Therefore, being sent on their way by the church, they were passing through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and were bringing great joy to all the brethren. 4 When they arrived at Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses." 6 The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter. 7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." 12 All the people kept silent, and they were listening to Barnabas and Paul as they were relating what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. 13 After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, "Brethren, listen to me. 14 "Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. 15 "With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, 16 'AFTER THESE THINGS I will return,AND I WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID WHICH HAS FALLEN,AND I WILL REBUILD ITS RUINS,AND I WILL RESTORE IT, 17 SO THAT THE REST OF MANKIND MAY SEEK THE LORD,AND ALL THE GENTILES WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME,' 18 SAYS THE LORD, WHO MAKES THESE THINGS KNOWN FROM LONG AGO. 19 "Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, 20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21 "For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath." 22 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them to send to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas--Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren, 23 and they sent this letter by them, "The apostles and the brethren who are elders, to the brethren in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles, greetings. 24 "Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls, 25 it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 "Therefore we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: 29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell." 30 So when they were sent away, they went down to Antioch; and having gathered the congregation together, they delivered the letter. 31 When they had read it, they rejoiced because of its encouragement. 32 Judas and Silas, also being prophets themselves, encouraged and strengthened the brethren with a lengthy message. 33 After they had spent time there, they were sent away from the brethren in peace to those who had sent them out. 34 But it seemed good to Silas to remain there. 35 But Paul and Barnabas stayed in Antioch, teaching and preaching with many others also, the word of the Lord. 36 After some days Paul said to Barnabas, "Let us return and visit the brethren in every city in which we proclaimed the word of the Lord, and see how they are." 37 Barnabas wanted to take John, called Mark, along with them also. 38 But Paul kept insisting that they should not take him along who had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not gone with them to the work. 39 And there occurred such a sharp disagreement that they separated from one another, and Barnabas took Mark with him and sailed away to Cyprus. 40 But Paul chose Silas and left, being committed by the brethren to the grace of the Lord. 41 And he was traveling through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.
 

Ben Masada

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Don't forget Galatians 2:21

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Not really! Parting from the principle that the Prophets say that no one can die for the sins of another, Jesus died when his time arrived. Perhaps fully in years wherever he went after he recovered from the wounds of the crucifixion. He just did not die on the cross. He suffered the stages of crucifixion but he didn't die on the cross. When Joseph of Arimathea took him off the cross with the help of another Pharisee, Nicodemus, they took care of Jesus and soon they left the Land of Israel and lived the rest of his life somewhere else: Jesus, Joseph and Jesus' wife Mary Magdalene. They could not remain in the Land under the fear to be rearrested and crucified over.
 

dodge

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Not really! Parting from the principle that the Prophets say that no one can die for the sins of another, Jesus died when his time arrived. Perhaps fully in years wherever he went after he recovered from the wounds of the crucifixion. He just did not die on the cross. He suffered the stages of crucifixion but he didn't die on the cross. When Joseph of Arimathea took him off the cross with the help of another Pharisee, Nicodemus, they took care of Jesus and soon they left the Land of Israel and lived the rest of his life somewhere else: Jesus, Joseph and Jesus' wife Mary Magdalene. They could not remain in the Land under the fear to be rearrested and crucified over.


Typical God rejecting , Messiah rejecting Jewish response. Maybe you should get serious and ask God and read His word...Even the OT testifies of Jesus unless of course you seek to serve yourself and not God.
 

Clete

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May you know God's peace. :)

1 Corinthians 9:23 NASB - 23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.

Philippians 2:14 NASB - 14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing;

What's your bible tell you about being rude and wasting other people's time by ignoring their efforts to answer questions that you asked on a discussion forum that you had no intention of discussing and don't even want the answers too?
 

Tambora

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When you hear a command of God, say in the New Testament... do you think that obeying it would be legalism or do you believe you ought to do what God has said?

Perhaps struggling with why people don't obey New Testament commands causes a person to want to find out what they are and where they came from.
There were many times in scripture that God commanded a person to do something He did not ask anyone else to do.

Even you have admitted you have no idea what the new covenant laws are.
So you have no list of the laws you think you are supposed to keep in order to reach the goal.
Which means you have no way of knowing if you ever reach the goal.

Instead of trying to come up with your own list to check off, why not just let God do the work in you when and where and how He want to?
It might even be something that is totally bizarre and out of character for you at the time, and you might even wonder why you did it.
What God does or says through you might be the spark that gets another to seek God, and it might just be something that is not even on your list of dos and don'ts.
Many men have tried to bring about God's wishes with their own efforts, such as Abraham using his wife's bondservant to have his child.

Let go and let God.
He has a far better handle on what needs to be done or said than you ever will.
And if He uses you to spark anyone else, it will happen despite your efforts, and you may be unaware that what you just did was His purpose.
 

Danoh

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Not really! Parting from the principle that the Prophets say that no one can die for the sins of another, Jesus died when his time arrived. Perhaps fully in years wherever he went after he recovered from the wounds of the crucifixion. He just did not die on the cross. He suffered the stages of crucifixion but he didn't die on the cross. When Joseph of Arimathea took him off the cross with the help of another Pharisee, Nicodemus, they took care of Jesus and soon they left the Land of Israel and lived the rest of his life somewhere else: Jesus, Joseph and Jesus' wife Mary Magdalene. They could not remain in the Land under the fear to be rearrested and crucified over.

Well, Willem Dafoe (Last Temptation of Christ) IS a good actor; his success in his chosen profession: make believe; demands it :chuckle:
 

Jacob

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What's your bible tell you about being rude and wasting other people's time by ignoring their efforts to answer questions that you asked on a discussion forum that you had no intention of discussing and don't even want the answers too?

Clete,

I have nothing against you. I am probably learning just as much as you.

I enjoy learning in the forums. I hope I can help others to see something in scripture they haven't seen before.

Shalom.
 

Jacob

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There were many times in scripture that God commanded a person to do something He did not ask anyone else to do.

Even you have admitted you have no idea what the new covenant laws are.
So you have no list of the laws you think you are supposed to keep in order to reach the goal.
Which means you have no way of knowing if you ever reach the goal.

Instead of trying to come up with your own list to check off, why not just let God do the work in you when and where and how He want to?
It might even be something that is totally bizarre and out of character for you at the time, and you might even wonder why you did it.
What God does or says through you might be the spark that gets another to seek God, and it might just be something that is not even on your list of dos and don'ts.
Many men have tried to bring about God's wishes with their own efforts, such as Abraham using his wife's bondservant to have his child.

Let go and let God.
He has a far better handle on what needs to be done or said than you ever will.
And if He uses you to spark anyone else, it will happen despite your efforts, and you may be unaware that what you just did was His purpose.

We who are born of the Spirit are to live by the Spirit. God's Law probably covers everything. Jeremiah communicated God's word about the new covenant. God said He would write His law upon our hearts.

Growing up in a Christian church I was taught that we are not saved by the Law but that in the New Testament we have Nine of the Ten Commandments. I don't believe that is true. We have more than Nine of the Ten Commandments. But it might be better to say we are not saved by the Law but that God gave Israel Ten Commandments, much more, and that we have even more commands in the New Testament writings (scriptures) though it doesn't spell out what the new covenant commands are if there are any.
 

Tambora

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We who are born of the Spirit are to live by the Spirit.
The Spirit, not the flesh.
Your nasty ol decaying flesh is not in the BOC (Body of Christ).



God's Law probably covers everything.
The thing about the Good Ship Probably is that it has leaks.


Jeremiah communicated God's word about the new covenant. God said He would write His law upon our hearts.
The new covenant was made with Israel, and upon their hearts His law will be written.
Jeremiah also goes on to describe what it will be like at that time, none of which has happened yet.


Growing up in a Christian church I was taught that we are not saved by the Law
Good.
No one ever was or will be saved by the law.


but that in the New Testament we have Nine of the Ten Commandments. I don't believe that is true. We have more than Nine of the Ten Commandments. But it might be better to say we are not saved by the Law but that God gave Israel Ten Commandments, much more, and that we have even more commands in the New Testament writings (scriptures) though it doesn't spell out what the new covenant commands are if there are any.
Here's your answers in a nutshell ....

Do we have to obey the law?
Yes.
Do you have a list of the law?
No.
Is there a list of the law anywhere?
I don't have a clue.
How can you obey a list of law that you don't even know of?
:idunno:


You do see the futility, don't you?
 

Jacob

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The Spirit, not the flesh.
Your nasty ol decaying flesh is not in the BOC (Body of Christ).



The thing about the Good Ship Probably is that it has leaks.


The new covenant was made with Israel, and upon their hearts His law will be written.
Jeremiah also goes on to describe what it will be like at that time, none of which has happened yet.


Good.
No one ever was or will be saved by the law.


Here's your answers in a nutshell ....

Do we have to obey the law?
Yes.
Do you have a list of the law?
No.
Is there a list of the law anywhere?
I don't have a clue.
How can you obey a list of law that you don't even know of?
:idunno:


You do see the futility, don't you?

There are 613 commands in Torah so yes there is a list.

The new covenant came to the house of Israel and the house of Judah in Jesus Christ about 2000 years ago. He said, "this is the new covenant in My blood". His body was broken and He bled and He died, all for the forgiveness of your sins. He was murdered. The just died for the unjust. See Romans 5:8 NASB.

1 Peter 3:18 NASB - 18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

I don't know what you mean by the Good Ship Probably.

I also don't know if you refer to people often (I assume you are addressing me and not a general reader) with "Your nasty ol decaying flesh is not in the BOC (Body of Christ)."

I am a born again believer, a member of the body of Christ which is His church.
 

Clete

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Clete,

I have nothing against you. I am probably learning just as much as you.

I enjoy learning in the forums. I hope I can help others to see something in scripture they haven't seen before.

Shalom.

How do you intend to do that? By refusing to make affirmative arguments in favor of your position and by refusing to respond directly to any argument against your position, no matter how biblical it is?

Good luck with that.
 

Jacob

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How do you intend to do that? By refusing to make affirmative arguments in favor of your position and by refusing to respond directly to any argument against your position, no matter how biblical it is?

Good luck with that.

Is it okay if I have a position?

Some questions are to learn from. Some statements are to make a point. Some comments relate something that is true.

Have you heard no one can be argued into the kingdom of God? It's not true, but it does reflect that things that are spiritual are sometimes different than that which may come naturally. That is, God's Law describes that which is right and wrong, and if you live by the Spirit of God you do that which is right and not that which is wrong. Everything that we discuss using natural language can with spiritual eyes be appraised spiritually.
 

intojoy

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Shalom Jacob!
Great passages by the way.

On Rom3, the Gentiles are under the Noahic covenant and they will be condemned based on their failure to keep it.

What Paul does inR3 is proclaim that Gentiles will be damned by their own failures to keep God's laws as far as what was revealed to them.

A native who lived and died without hearing of Jehovah's laws is guilty of not responding to the evidence of God shown in creation. He will be lost in eternity apart from the God of Israel




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Jacob

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Shalom Jacob!
Great passages by the way.

On Rom3, the Gentiles are under the Noahic covenant and they will be condemned based on their failure to keep it.

What Paul does inR3 is proclaim that Gentiles will be damned by their own failures to keep God's laws as far as what was revealed to them.

A native who lived and died without hearing of Jehovah's laws is guilty of not responding to the evidence of God shown in creation. He will be lost in eternity apart from the God of Israel
Shalom. Your response is well thought out. Thank you for sharing your perspective. Shalom. Jacob.
 
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