I do not believe God will allow for a debate. Revelation 20:7-15.
BRXII Battle talk
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This verse has been debated all over this thread if you took the time to scroll back, and if there's no room for a debate then I can only presume that you now believe in eternal torment? :think:
1 Timothy 4:10
Why would i want to reject that? :idunno:
Oh ya, i forgot, 'especially' means 'only'......
:dizzy:
PKevman
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Talk about views on a passage being debunked. You have never yet given a reasonable explanation for why "especially of believers" is even in the text.
You know that we have never once denied that Jesus is the Savior of all men do you? He died for all. But not all will receive the benefits of His sacrifice because God Himself made the condition:
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18
Would you care to address how your interpretation of 1 Timothy 4:10 can be true, and the direct words of the Lord also be true?
Or could it be that you (and Universalism) are wrong, and that verse doesn't mean what you wildly claim it means?
My guess is you will dance, twist, and do whatever else you have to in order to hold onto the false beliefs of Universalism, because you have personally decided this in your heart and you actually refuse to examine or consider anything that refutes your position.
I was completely and totally responsive to the questions and arguments of Stephen in the Battle Royale. There are a host of questions that I asked in that debate that were not answered in a responsive way. Right now Bob Enyart is doing a one on one with a Calvinist who thinks he can respond to Bob's questions in his debate better than the Calvinist who debated Bob. Maybe down the line I will offer the same type of opportunity to any Universalist who thinks he could do better than Logos did. I personally think Logos is as bright a mind as you will be able to find, and think it is sad that he has fallen into the false teachings of hardheaded folks like you and Redfin!
PKevman
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You reject all of the many verses that refute your interpretation of that verse, however.
What do you mean an explanation of why 'especially of believers' is even in the text? It's there because it's there!
The verse you attempt to use to refute it doesn't even mention a condemnation to eternal torment, it has to be translated for you to attempt to warp the meaning of Tim 4:10 which stands clear in it's own right!
And it's a bit subjective of you to claim total responsiveness and lack of Stephen's because thats not how I saw the debate, I saw both sides addressing the other's points in that battle
i don't NEED to try and dance and twist my way around verses, does it occur to you that it is in fact YOU who do so and try to limit God to your own limits of doctrine? i'm sorry that you believe the horrendous doctrine that you do and if i am hard headed I certainly aren't hard hearted....
The point is there isn't any interpretation of the verse required, it says what it says and abundantly clear at that! How is it possibly not clear?! :dizzy:
Redfin
New member
Right.... you followed your 3 proof-texts with 3 sets of two-liners.
If you consider that "in depth" discussion, the problem is obvious, and you are oblivious.
:think:
Redfin
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So please by all means quote from the PKV translation of the New Testament. Oh, wait.... there is no such translation, whereby your argument of "YOUR translations" just went out the window.
Your preferred translations. You knew what I meant. :yawn:
Redfin
New member
You should've saved that comment for a PM.
Everyone here who has gotten to know you, knows that you're relishing the bragging rights to that.
More than once you've resurrected this otherwise "dead thread."
:think:
PKevman
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Redfin said:
Really? To whom?
Lots of people on here know me quite well and better than you. You would love to silence me from continually pointing out the flaws in Universalism would't you? Why don't you repent and turn from your evil theology and embrace the God of the Bible and not your made up one from Universalism?
I participated in this Battle Royale. I think I have a right to make posts in the Battle Talk thread without having to get your permission. Who died and made you king?
Keep doing that, and maybe you will realize what garbage theology Universalism really is. :wave:
Redfin
New member
Why, to us "boneheads," of course! :chuckle:
No permission issues here, just an observation.
:think:
Redfin
New member
Kev's Projection Issues
Kev's Projection Issues
First, Kev projects his favorite fantasy into the discussion.
Next, Kev projects his own inner desire on me, personally.
Finally, Kev projects his megalomania on me as well.
:think:
Kev's Projection Issues
First, Kev projects his favorite fantasy into the discussion.
Next, Kev projects his own inner desire on me, personally.
Finally, Kev projects his megalomania on me as well.
:think:
PKevman
New member
More irrelevance from Redfin.
All fluff and no substance. Do you actually have anything relating to the Scriptures on this topic? You are still dodging Redfin. You can take what I say personally all you like. Universalism is unBiblical and hokie nonsense. Plain and simple.
PKevman
New member
And Redfin you misquoted my response to this:
My response was NOT:
"You would love to silence me... would't you?" As you stated above with yet another of your lying and false accusations.
My response was really:
Seems you left out the whole "You would love to silence me from continually pointing out the flaws in Universalism wouldn't you" part of the statement.
But then again, your whole theological system of Universalism is built on a pack of lies and deceit, and your mind has been deceived by the deceiver, Satan so it is no wonder that you cannot even rightly quote someone you are having a discussion with who is exposing those lies.
Redfin said:
My response was NOT:
"You would love to silence me... would't you?" As you stated above with yet another of your lying and false accusations.
My response was really:
PastorKevin said:
Seems you left out the whole "You would love to silence me from continually pointing out the flaws in Universalism wouldn't you" part of the statement.
But then again, your whole theological system of Universalism is built on a pack of lies and deceit, and your mind has been deceived by the deceiver, Satan so it is no wonder that you cannot even rightly quote someone you are having a discussion with who is exposing those lies.
Never thought otherwise. The only consideration is what form it will take. God said it will happen. I'll take His side. You?
Uh, so you never said anything about annihilationism did you not....? :liberals:
God said he came to save the world, I reckon he can. You?
PKevman
New member
Red how many times do your arguments have to be exposed? You continually restate them and they have been shown to be wrong.
Newsflash:
JESUS DIED FOR EVERYONE!
We don't deny this fundamental truth. There are FURTHER fundamental truths that you deny!
Such as that belief is the necessary ingredient for one to receive the benefit of that death!
Oh well, I'm sorry but 1 Timothy 4:10 would seem to take issue with you as well as plenty of other verses, I'm sorry if you have to "interpret" such a verse which is actually crystal clear........
Well it is disingenuous of you to say that only the universalists have kept this thread going as long as it has, Redfin is right, you've resurrected this thread plenty of times...
Pastor - why do you do this? You did the same with me in another thread saying I bet I'd love it if you just talked about how the weather was instead of anything meaty.....I'll say the same as then, no I wouldn't, I don't fear any type of debate with you or anyone else on this subject or otherwise, neither I very much doubt will Redfin or anyone else, say what you want, noone is scared of addressing your own conceptions
God being 100% succesful and nobody being senselessly tormented is an 'evil theology', good grief...... :rain: how hard hearted do we have to be to think that senseless agonising suffering is right pastor?
Nobody said you didn't have the right.....
Yes, lets all embrace families, loved ones and friends being fried for eternity instead, there's only one 'garbage' theology that would promote such evil......
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