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Thread: Are you Going to Heaven?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
    The Bible that speak about those things is called NT. Read it and you will see the huge amount of Greek Mythology.
    I have read the collection of books commonly called the New Testament in English and in Greek and I have not seen any claim in it that dead Christians live forever as ghosts in cloud mansions in the sky. If you know of any passages that say this in the NT, please show me where. I don't take anybody's word for anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timotheos View Post
    I have read the collection of books commonly called the New Testament in English and in Greek and I have not seen any claim in it that dead Christians live forever as ghosts in cloud mansions in the sky. If you know of any passages that say this in the NT, please show me where. I don't take anybody's word for anything.
    Good! Don't take the word of any Christian affirming that dead Christians live forever even if it is down in the gospels. Yea, read about the last judgment in Mat. 25:31-46. Christians will be separated into two groups one represented as sheep on the right hand and the goats on the left hand. Those on the right side will be called into heaven for eternal life and those on the left for eternal punishment. This goes against the Torah that says no one can live forever. (Gen. 3:22) Also against resurrection which the Tanach claims will never happen. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
    Good! Don't take the word of any Christian affirming that dead Christians live forever even if it is down in the gospels. Yea, read about the last judgment in Mat. 25:31-46. Christians will be separated into two groups one represented as sheep on the right hand and the goats on the left hand. Those on the right side will be called into heaven for eternal life and those on the left for eternal punishment. This goes against the Torah that says no one can live forever. (Gen. 3:22) Also against resurrection which the Tanach claims will never happen. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21)
    So God was not preserving the mind of Abel after Cain had slain him. What a sense of justice your "god" hasn't!
    John 1:1-2
    1 εν αρχη ην ο λογος At the beginning, it was a word; και ο λογος ην προς ο θεος and a word, it was unto a God; και θεος ην ο λογος and the God, it was.. A word 2 ουτος a-such... 2 ην εν αρχη προς ο θεος ... it was at the beginning unto a God.

    "Yahweh" is a word, not just Christ!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
    Good! Don't take the word of any Christian affirming that dead Christians live forever even if it is down in the gospels. Yea, read about the last judgment in Mat. 25:31-46. Christians will be separated into two groups one represented as sheep on the right hand and the goats on the left hand. Those on the right side will be called into heaven for eternal life and those on the left for eternal punishment. This goes against the Torah that says no one can live forever. (Gen. 3:22) Also against resurrection which the Tanach claims will never happen. (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21)
    I believe Jesus Christ who said that the dead would be resurrected and those who follow him would inherit eternal life and those who reject him would not have eternal life. Genesis 3:22 does NOT say that no one can live forever. It actually says the opposite of that, if man would eat from the tree of life, he would live forever. As a Christian, I believe that the tree of life represents Jesus Christ, God Himself. He is the only way to have eternal life. But this eternal life is not being a dead angel ghost spirit in heaven. This eternal life is real life.
    (Isa. 26:14; II Sam. 12:23; Job 10:21)
    These verses are referring to the wicked who do NOT inherit eternal life. These verses do not deny that those who put their faith in God will inherit eternal life from the Eternally Living God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omniskeptical View Post
    So God was not preserving the mind of Abel after Cain had slain him. What a sense of justice your "god" hasn't!
    What do you mean by "sense of justice" the reward of heaven if you behave well in life? Omni, I am sorry to rain on your parade but, to behave well in exchange of a reward in heaven is no different from the reward promised to dogs to behave well or to perform funny. You know, those treats that dog owners give their dogs if they behave. Laws are obeyed to keep us out of trouble. God owes us nothing to show us His sense of justice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timotheos View Post
    I believe Jesus Christ who said that the dead would be resurrected and those who follow him would inherit eternal life and those who reject him would not have eternal life. Genesis 3:22 does NOT say that no one can live forever. It actually says the opposite of that, if man would eat from the tree of life, he would live forever. As a Christian, I believe that the tree of life represents Jesus Christ, God Himself. He is the only way to have eternal life. But this eternal life is not being a dead angel ghost spirit in heaven. This eternal life is real life.

    These verses are referring to the wicked who do NOT inherit eternal life. These verses do not deny that those who put their faith in God will inherit eternal life from the Eternally Living God.
    The text in Genesis 3:22-24 explains why Adam and Eve had to be banished from the Garden of Eden; so that they would not eat of the tree of life and live forever. The point here is that the Devine attribute of eternal life could not be shared with man. Only God is eternal.

    How could the tree of life represent Jesus if the man died? That's a contradiction in terms. There is no life eternal to inherit. But I understand you. Illusions are usually the last to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
    The text in Genesis 3:22-24 explains why Adam and Eve had to be banished from the Garden of Eden; so that they would not eat of the tree of life and live forever. The point here is that the Devine attribute of eternal life could not be shared with man. Only God is eternal.

    How could the tree of life represent Jesus if the man died? That's a contradiction in terms. There is no life eternal to inherit. But I understand you. Illusions are usually the last to go.
    I believe that Jesus Christ rose on the third day. He died, but he did not remain dead. He is alive. The man died, yet he is alive now.

    He represents the tree of life because if we are in Christ, we will also have the gift of eternal life. Read Romans 6:23
    For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    The divine attribute of eternal life CAN be shared with man. Read John 1, "But to whoever received him, whoever believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
    What do you mean by "sense of justice" the reward of heaven if you behave well in life? Omni, I am sorry to rain on your parade but, to behave well in exchange of a reward in heaven is no different from the reward promised to dogs to behave well or to perform funny. You know, those treats that dog owners give their dogs if they behave. Laws are obeyed to keep us out of trouble. God owes us nothing to show us His sense of justice.
    I am talking about the time Abel loses on Cain. Your "god" (i.e. your version) is weak. It can't even wake the dead. pathetic.
    John 1:1-2
    1 εν αρχη ην ο λογος At the beginning, it was a word; και ο λογος ην προς ο θεος and a word, it was unto a God; και θεος ην ο λογος and the God, it was.. A word 2 ουτος a-such... 2 ην εν αρχη προς ο θεος ... it was at the beginning unto a God.

    "Yahweh" is a word, not just Christ!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timotheos View Post
    I believe that Jesus Christ rose on the third day. He died, but he did not remain dead. He is alive. The man died, yet he is alive now.

    He represents the tree of life because if we are in Christ, we will also have the gift of eternal life. Read Romans 6:23
    For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    The divine attribute of eternal life CAN be shared with man. Read John 1, "But to whoever received him, whoever believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God".
    All the above is from the gospel of Paul who was a Hellenist former Jew. Nothing at all can be verified in the only Scriptures that Jesus used to refer to as the Word of God. The NT, Jesus never even dreamed would ever rise.

    Timotheos, Jesus was a Jewish man whose Faith was Judaism. Bodily resurrection is not an item in the Faith of Jesus. It was fabricated by Paul as he confessed it to his disciple Timothy. (2 Tim. 2:8) Prophet Isaiah says clearly that the dead will never rise again. (Isa. 26:14) King David said clearly that the dead will never return. (2 Sam. 12:23) We also have in Job 10:21 that from the grave one can never return. Throughout the Tanach there is nothing to endorse bodily resurrection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omniskeptical View Post
    I am talking about the time Abel loses on Cain. Your "god" (i.e. your version) is weak. It can't even wake the dead. pathetic.
    What do you mean by "Abel loses on Cain?" When Cain was planning to kill Abel, the Lord appeared to him in a dream and warned him not to carry out his plans because it was all up to his freewill. If he gave in to his intents, he would become a slave to an evil life. That's all. BTW, that was an allegory to indicate that God was sharing with man His attribute of freewill. It means that the event did not happen literally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
    What do you mean by "Abel loses on Cain?" When Cain was planning to kill Abel, the Lord appeared to him in a dream and warned him not to carry out his plans because it was all up to his freewill.
    Cain was unreformable at that point. Your story is a forgery.
    If he gave in to his intents, he would become a slave to an evil life. That's all. BTW, that was an allegory to indicate that God was sharing with man His attribute of freewill. It means that the event did not happen literally.
    It did happen literally, fool. Clement of 'Rome's LXX has a more accurate account which doesn't try to redeem Cain like the traditional hebrew text tries to.
    John 1:1-2
    1 εν αρχη ην ο λογος At the beginning, it was a word; και ο λογος ην προς ο θεος and a word, it was unto a God; και θεος ην ο λογος and the God, it was.. A word 2 ουτος a-such... 2 ην εν αρχη προς ο θεος ... it was at the beginning unto a God.

    "Yahweh" is a word, not just Christ!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ABMF View Post
    Purpose: Wake up the sinner who thinks they are a good person and that good deeds will outway the bad. Bring a conviction of sin. Wake up the believer who has sin as a practice. Wake up the unsaved to the condition they are in. Remind those who walk in victory over sin of what they were saved from. ALL to the power and glory of Jesus Christ.

    You think you are going to heaven?Take this test. In taking the test do it in the light of the principle of the question being asked and apply it to your own life circumstances. Lust: (married) persons: Have you had sexual or inappropriate relations with a person you were not married to, while married to someone else? Have you had sexual lustful thoughts( fantasies) of desire toward a person when you looked at them while married to someone else? Looked to long at, because a person of the opposite sex was attractive or good looking? Decided you could look as long as you don't touch? Married a person who got divorced apart from Gods permission? If yes to any of those God says you are guilty of adultery.

    (to the unmarried or ((married person pertaining to their past before marriage): Have you had sexual or inappropriate relations with a person you were not married to? Have you had sexual lustful thoughts (fantasies) of desire toward a person when you looked at them ? Looked to long at, because a person of the opposite sex was attractive or good looking? If yes you are guilty of fornication.

    Have you ever committed morally questionable acts and conduct toward others or yourself? Ever enjoy "a good" dirty joke?Then God says you are guilty of uncleanness.Played magic games? Visited a psychic or medium or palm reading? Had your fortune told? Followed a horoscope? Played with a ouija board? Read books with topics of magic, wizards and witchcraft? Followed tv shows of people doing strange and paranormal/supernatural things? Witchcraft? Occult? Twilight? Harry Potter ? Bewitched? If yes to any of those you according to God are unclean.

    You ever committed lustful or sexually offensive actions toward others such as hitting on someone with a sexually explicit pick up line or publicly showed actions in order to attract sexual attention? Posed in a picture as to show sexy? Walked or carried your body, or dressed to attract sexual attention? Hows your beach swim attire? If yes to any God says you are guilty of lewdness.

    Do you put your trust for your health finances and well being in anyone or anything other then God alone? Do you put anyone or anything first foremost and greatest place and part of your life other then God? Do you devote or dedicate your time, effort, ability and skill to anyone or anything other then God or what is of Him?(that includes yourself) Do you esteem, love, give devotion or time over to things that are not Godly or approved of by Him? If yes then you are guilty of the sin of idolatry.

    Ever do drugs? Legal or other? Smoke? If yes then you are guilty before God of sorcery.

    Ever have a serious dislike or distaste with actions or feelings of being hostile or seriously unfriendly toward someone or anyone even if a enemy or opponent? If yes you are guilty of hatred.

    Really ever get angry with a person? If yes then you are before God guilty of murder. Ever shoot anyone even in a war? Or in self defense? Same guilt before God. Murder.

    Ever had strife debate or controversy with a person with animosity wrong intentions or dislike toward them? Sue anyone? Take them to court? Argue with ill will? Get in a fight? If yes then you are guilty of the sin of contentions.

    Ever not like the fact that someone is enjoying success or an advantage like being paid or given more or got attention for his or her accomplishment more then someone you thought deserved it, like yourself? Or even wished you got it or had it and not, or instead of, that person? Wish you got that present or money that so and so got given instead of them? If yes you are guilty of jealousies. If you do these things with covetousness of wanting of the advantages successes and wealth then the guilt of envy comes.

    Ever lash out in anger physically or verbally? punch a wall or beat a person our animal or go into a verbal shouting yelling and screaming fit, have road rage or anger at another driver or person who upset you and you let them know through your actions or in some way that you are mad angry and upset? If yes then you are guilty of out bursts of wrath.

    Ever wish everyone would recognize how good you are and wanted your own personal agenda to be the goal of everyone around you regardless of others? Ever work hard to get accomplished the thing you have always wanted without consideration to the cost of others around you? Career goal that was sacrificed greatly for even if by stealing time or hurting those around you? You are guilty of selfish ambitions.

    Do you regularly get in disagreements and arguments and be that person who certain topics can never be discussed with but you enjoy that? Political and social issues that you argue about and take a stubborn stand on your views and no one better present anything that opposes it or else? If yes you are guilty of dissensions.

    Do you hold beliefs or ideas or thoughts that you believe are true, that are contrary to God and His word? Example do you believe in evolution or other "scientific" explanations of biblical accounts, views, world events along with ethical and moral conduct of society? Be it historical or present? If yes you are guilty of heresies.

    Ever get drunk? Take part in a party with loud music dancing games food fun drinking getting high making out with all the actions and activities of sexual perversion drunkenness ect? If yes you are guilty of the sin of drunkenness and revelries.

    Ever tell a lie?little white lie? Half truth? Explain something in order to give the wrong perception or impression to deceive or keep someone believing an untruth? If yes you are guilty of being a liar.

    Ever steal anything? Take anything that did not belong to you without asking because if you did, someone might object, not wanting you to do so? If yes you are guilty of stealing.

    Ever lie tell a half truth or present a obscure view about someone you knew to someone else as to cause that person you lied about trouble or to look bad and win people over to your point of view about that person? Does that sound like gossip? You are guilty of false witness.

    Ever look at someone’s house and want it? How about wanting some ones wife or husband? Wanting some ones laborer who contracted with them to break that contract and come work for you? Wish you had someone else's horse cows chickens cat or dog? lawn or farm tractor? Truck car boat RV sport utility vehicle? Wanting a painting or musical instrument that is one of a kind or exclusively made but belongs to someone else?If you did any of these type of things with a seriousness then you are guilty of covetousness.

    Ever take the Lord's name in vain? Use it to curse or swear? Even if someone scared you and in surprise expression say oh Jes@$&$? You are guilty of blasphemy.

    Ever want to exert your will over someone else? Ever wish you were the boss so you could show them a thing or to? Ever boast about your abilities and achievements as to present yourself as being someone smart and great or better than others? Ever inflate your achievements to seem greater then what they actually are? Ever try to put yourself at the top and make it seem like your most valuable one in the group as to not be laid off, fired, thought badly about or looked down on or excluded and rejected? Guilt of selfishness and pride of life belongs to you.

    To the person without God: You said no to all the above and say that you have not done any of those things? Or that your good deeds will out weigh the bad? If yes you are guilty of self righteousness and lying. Hypocrite! Look at our own (good part) justice system. Would a good judge acquit a man who was a horrific murderer ( go ahead and create a really bad crime rap sheet list in your own mind) just because he donated large sums of money to charity, helped the poor, saved some one from drowning, doing all that now and then to balance out his crime? To the person "with God" but have any of the above as a regular thing in your life but deny it you are guilty of lying and hypocrisy with self-righteousness.

    You said yes to most of the above and are without God? Here then is the title you have.

    adulterator Fornicating unclean lewd idolater sorcerer hatful Murderer contentious jealous envying wrathful selfish dissentious* heretical drunken reveler lying stealing false witness ( slanderer) covetous selfish prideful blasphemer

    And you are going to stand before a sinless perfect pure holy righteous God and expect Him to let you into heaven?Go ahead and add arrogant to your title. Humans are not worthy to be saved with absolutely no value in or of themselves to ever attract God to love or save them. Humans are to Him of themselves deserving of the very depths of hell with all it's endless horrors and tortures along with all the other demonic creatures and beings who rebelled against Him because they are as them! A rebellious creation who loves the sin they are in and are always pron to do evil! God is so righteous so holy so perfect that He cannot and will not tolerate warm up to be desensitized about or talked into permitting sin. He demands of His creation that they walk before Him and be perfect! If they won't do it then the place prearranged for that sort is where they will go. It is not His desire that they go, but they of their own will not to obey and therefore putting themselves under His wrath and judgment. God is not a humanist. He is not begging you and pleading with you to stop sinning repent, get a new nature to be made perfect by the blood of His Son Jesus Christ who died on a cross and three days later He raised Him from the dead, and by His blood, atonement can be made for your sins. No instead it’s a gentle invitation to all, that whoever will hear can receive forgiveness for their sin and be changed from being a sinner to saved. Anyone who will believe and receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior can be made into a new person and be the perfection through Christ, the work of The Holy Spirit, that God demands. It's the pure Holy blood of Jesus Christ that God shed for the forgiveness of sin that enables you to be made into a new person free from sin and it's desires. You must be born again! Without it you can never be free from sin. With it you will not continue to commit as a practice, sin.

    (The person who has sin as a practice in their lives, meaning as a regular occurrence of normal needs to repent and get right with God and do what it takes to live a life of victory over sin)

    But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8 NKJV)

    Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21 NKJV)

    Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever. (1 John 2:15-17 NKJV)

    Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10 NKJV)

    Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. (1 Corinthians 6:18 NKJV)

    But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was. (2 Timothy 3:1-9 NKJV)

    knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust. And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen. (apostle Paul speaking in 1 Timothy.)

    But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all. (Colossians 3:8-11 NKJV)

    But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit. But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. And on some have compassion, making a distinction; but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh. (Jude 1:5-23 NKJV)

    But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. (Revelation 21:27 NKJV)

    Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. (Revelation 22:14-17 NKJV)

    Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, uI will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.22 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ (Jesus Christ) Revelation 3
    I don't care about Heaven. Like Jesus, I believe it's in good shape. It can take care of itself. When I die, it will be either the most profound experience I will ever have, or it will be absolutely nothing.

    Salvation is something that is transformative in THIS life--"on Earth as it is in Heaven."

    And Jesus himself offered salvation to others before he even turned his face to Jerusalem.

    The real problems are on this earth, now. The marginalized, the destitute, the powers and principalities and the captives.
    ____________________________________
    ...terrorism is the war of the poor and war is the terrorism of the rich...




    (STILL trying to set up conservatives and fundamentalists on blind dates with Jesus...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    I am already seated in heavenly places.

    I have an easier question. Do you covet? Do you see what others have and think that would be nice? That is proof of being unrighteous, as sin increases with the law.
    Personally, I have coveted a flat-screen television and I eventually got one.

    I may be way off base, but doesn't capitalism thrive on coveting goods and services? The purpose of advertising seems to be to force us to covet.
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    (STILL trying to set up conservatives and fundamentalists on blind dates with Jesus...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omniskeptical View Post
    Cain was unreformable at that point. Your story is a forgery.
    It did happen literally, fool. Clement of 'Rome's LXX has a more accurate account which doesn't try to redeem Cain like the traditional hebrew text tries to.
    Omniskeptical, you have just proved to yourself to be a real fool. Unaware of what you are saying, you are implying that the Torah is a book of forgeries. I quoted Genesis 4:7 and you are implying that the text is a forgery. Psalm 14:1 applies to you as a hand fits into the glove.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
    All the above is from the gospel of Paul who was a Hellenist former Jew. Nothing at all can be verified in the only Scriptures that Jesus used to refer to as the Word of God. The NT, Jesus never even dreamed would ever rise.

    Timotheos, Jesus was a Jewish man whose Faith was Judaism. Bodily resurrection is not an item in the Faith of Jesus. It was fabricated by Paul as he confessed it to his disciple Timothy. (2 Tim. 2:8) Prophet Isaiah says clearly that the dead will never rise again. (Isa. 26:14) King David said clearly that the dead will never return. (2 Sam. 12:23) We also have in Job 10:21 that from the grave one can never return. Throughout the Tanach there is nothing to endorse bodily resurrection.
    there was even confusion about this among the disciples,

    if you read the accounts, when some saw Jesus he passed through walls, while others touched him in accounts of the same events!

    that being said the OP is way off, we should not praise or worship God for what we can get out of it (eternal life, heaven etc) but for Love of God.

    It's my understanding tho, Jesus did teach the spirit will return to God from which it came on physical death when asked about wives Matthew 22, I beleive this is consistent with Ecclesiastes 12:7.

    So what it appears Christians are doing is claiming God's spirit that was given to them is their own, that's how they are going back to God in heaven rather than the spirit.

    Will God be fooled? will he let their claim of that spirit being their own returning to Him ride?

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