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Thread: Is the Future Open?

  1. #91
    Over 6000 post club intojoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    So before He came down to the earth He knew the day and the hour but while on the earth he developed a case of amnesia and no longer knew it?

    No

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    No
    Then how do you explain the idea that before He came to the earth He knew the day and the hour and then while on the earth He no longer knew it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Then how do you explain the idea that before He came to the earth He knew the day and the hour and then while on the earth He no longer knew it?

    Easy

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    He placed a self limitation upon Himself

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    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    He placed a self limitation upon Himself
    Did that self limitation of which you speak include being able to forget things He already knew?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    Did that self limitation of which you speak include being able to forget things He already knew?

    The fact is that Yeshua was in submission to his mother and step father, two inferiors had authority over Him. When Yeshua was young he had to learn to walk, talk, eat drink.

    Yeshua had to learn the scriptures as a man. The adding of humanity was as real as it could get, He was fully man. The omniscience of the Father was not with the Son during His earthly ministry because Yeshua had to be taught the Word of God. This is what was revealed by Isaiah the prophet:

    The Lord G od has given Me the tongue of disciples, That I may know how to sustain the weary one with a word. He awakens Me morning by morning, He awakens My ear to listen as a disciple. The Lord G od has opened My ear; And I was not disobedient Nor did I turn back. (Isaiah 50:4, 5 NASB)

  7. #97
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    The fact is that Yeshua was in submission to his mother and step father, two inferiors had authority over Him. When Yeshua was young he had to learn to walk, talk, eat drink.

    Yeshua had to learn the scriptures as a man. The adding of humanity was as real as it could get, He was fully man. The omniscience of the Father was not with the Son during His earthly ministry because Yeshua had to be taught the Word of God. This is what was revealed by Isaiah the prophet:

    The Lord G od has given Me the tongue of disciples, That I may know how to sustain the weary one with a word. He awakens Me morning by morning, He awakens My ear to listen as a disciple. The Lord G od has opened My ear; And I was not disobedient Nor did I turn back. (Isaiah 50:4, 5 NASB)
    OK, I can agree with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    The fact is that Yeshua was in submission to his mother and step father, two inferiors had authority over Him. When Yeshua was young he had to learn to walk, talk, eat drink.

    Yeshua had to learn the scriptures as a man. The adding of humanity was as real as it could get, He was fully man. The omniscience of the Father was not with the Son during His earthly ministry because Yeshua had to be taught the Word of God. This is what was revealed by Isaiah the prophet:

    The Lord G od has given Me the tongue of disciples, That I may know how to sustain the weary one with a word. He awakens Me morning by morning, He awakens My ear to listen as a disciple. The Lord G od has opened My ear; And I was not disobedient Nor did I turn back. (Isaiah 50:4, 5 NASB)
    Eureka! Jerry agrees with someone.
    Eph 2:8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift --
    Eph 2:9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
    Eph 2:10 For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them. [HCSB]

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    The verse I quoted demonstrates that God is not bound by time, as we are. After all, would we not be foolish to say that a day with us is as a thousand years but concurrent to that a thousand years with us is as one day?
    The verse demonstrates no such thing and claiming it does does not make it so.

    I can honestly say that I have experienced hours that seemed to last mere minutes and other minutes that seemed to last five. God can say that about a millennium vs a day because He has been around for eternity, not because He is outside of time, which doesn't even exist physically so as to be something which one can be outside of.

    No, it is not irrational but instead according to Scriptures:
    "He has saved us and called us to a holy lifeónot because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time" (2 Tim. 1:9).

    Look at the original language: the word translated here as time does not translate as such. The translator assumed that before the world began there was no time and thus translated his own bias into it.
    In fact, the word in the original Greek is αἰώνιος which is defined as:



    1. without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
    2. without beginning
    3. without end, never to cease, everlasting


    Which shows that any translation that insinuates that time began at some point is in error.


    This shows God existing in the eternal state, before the beginning of time. You have not yet even provided one verse which demonstates that the Lord has always existed concurrent with "time."
    I never said God didn't exist in an eternal state. My argument is that time does as well, as a result of God's existence.

    Here is another verse that demonstates that God's exists outside of time:
    "in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time" (Titus 1:2).
    Again the same word was used by Paul here.

    And you can see on this page that it does not translate into "before time began." It's the second word down.

    P.S.
    "demonstrate/s" has an 'r' in it.


  10. #100
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    Yea he probably spelled that word wrong so many times that his tablet auto spells it wrong for him now

  11. #101
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    the word translated here as time does not translate as such.
    It is translated in the KJV as "time" on 33 different occasions.

    In fact, the word in the original Greek is αἰώνιος
    WRONG!

    The Greek word translated as "time" at 2 Timothy 1:9 is χρόνος.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    It is translated in the KJV as "time" on 33 different occasions.
    That doesn't make it right.

    WRONG!

    The Greek word translated as "time" at 2 Timothy 1:9 is χρόνος.
    Did you follow the link? The word is translated as "the world began," in that verse. And, FYI, 2 Timothy 1:9 KJV reads "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began..,"

    And after looking up the passage in Greek it appears that it actually refers to time eternal, not before time.

    P.S.
    "Before time" is an oxymoron.


  13. #103
    TOL Legend Jerry Shugart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    That doesn't make it right.
    Richard Trench writes, "Χρόνος is time, contemplated simply as such; the succession of moments" (Trench's New Testament Synonyms of the New Testament).

  14. #104
    Silver Member Totton Linnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intojoy View Post
    He placed a self limitation upon Himself
    Well...you say, He submitted to the Father and we read that FULNESS of the Godhead dwelled in Him.
    One lavished upon in the Beloved
    http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/blog.php?u=10603

  15. #105
    Over 2000 post club journey's Avatar
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    I disagree with the OP. God has FOREKNOWLEDGE of all things. I also disagree with limiting God with any man-made rules about time or anything else. The future is OPEN for us, but God does know what the future holds.
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    Romans 10:9-10 KJV That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

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