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Thread: Real Science Radio: Deep Wells--Deep Time? 14c There Too?

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    Real Science Radio: Deep Wells--Deep Time? 14c There Too?

    Deep Wells--Deep Time? 14c There Too?

    This is the show from Friday January 3rd, 2014



    Summary:

    * CRS Makes John Doughty Paper Publicly Available: The Creation Research Society, upon request from Real Science Radio, has made available to the general public a 2007 paper previously only accessible to subscribers of their peer-reviewed journal. That paper, Deep Wells—Deep Time?, presents the results of testing natural gas from a deep well for Carbon 14. RSR now interviews 14c researcher John Doughty, aerospace and mechanical engineering Ph.D. and former Lt Col program director of a U.S. military space laser program.

    * Three Related Lines of Evidence Shoring Up the Young Earth Interpretation: The interaction between dinosaur soft tissue, unracemized left-handed amino acids, and Carbon 14 must all be explained to understand the true age of the geologic column. (1) Significant amounts of short-lived 14c is measured in diamonds, dinosaur fossils, natural gas, and coal. (2) There's mostly left-handed amino acids (not yet decayed to a 50/50 right-to-left ratio) in chert and dinosaur eggshells. (3) There's flexible and even transparent blood vessels, cells, and even T. rex and hadrosaur DNA (with a half-life of ~521 years) in dinosaur soft tissue fossils. Many such lines of evidence (multiplying as at youngearth.com) undermine the claim by old-earth geologists that the plentiful 14c in "ancient" specimens must come from contamination or neutron capture (see below), and this evidence helps to confirm the young earth interpretation of the data below.



    * A Less Familiar Source of 14C: Though it may be an extremely negligible source, of the various emissions from radioactive decay (alpha particles, beta particles, etc.), from a particular decay chain, it is possible that an entire 14c atom (6P, 8N, 6E) can be emitted as a unit in a single step. If you know of a web page where this is described, please email that link to Bob@kgov.com. Thanks!

    * 14C in Dinosaur-layer Bones: RSR offered famed paleontologists Jack Horner and Dr. Mary Schweitzer a grant of $23,000 to carbon date their biological dinosaur tissue (YouTube video below), which money RSR saved thanks to Hugh Miller (above) and the rare studies that are just beginning to be reported finding significant quantities of modern carbon in allegedly ancient fossils that still contain original soft tissue! A Mosasaur shown by researchers to have original biological material and not contamination, also contained five percent modern carbon! See more at Round Four of our RSR debate with atheist AronRa. We have a young earth!

    * Earth's Decaying Magnetic Field Affects 14C Dating: Long-term, authoritative, and worldwide measurements show that the Earth's magnetic field is decaying rapidly (as NASA's data shows is also true of Mercury). Our planet's more powerful magnetic field in the past better shielded Earth from cosmic rays, resulting in less Carbon-14 production. This means that carbon ages of specimens from past millennia and even from only centuries ago need to be adjusted downward. So apart from adjustment for the exponentially decaying magnetic field, specimens are therefore younger than their radiocarbon age indicates. For, living with a stronger field, plants and animals absorbed less radiocarbon. So, in addition to the evidence for rapid radioactive decay at the time of the global flood, the Earth's decaying magnetic field means that specimens are generally younger than claimed by Carbon-14 dating. This effect may be significant going back even only to the time of Christ, and might also be a factor in why 14c dating of the artifacts of the Pharaohs were not as helpful as had been hoped for in resolving debates in chronology among Egyptologists.

    * Amber 14C Dating Prediction: RSR predicts that even allegedly 300-million-year-old amber will show significant quantities of modern carbon. See more at RealScienceRadio.com/predictions.

    * Left-handed Amino Acids: Scientists have been surprised to find primarily left-handed (i.e., unracemized) amino acids in specimens allegedly hundreds of millions of years old. Once an organism dies, its amino acids begin to return to their inanimate, 50/50 ratio of right- and left-handedness. Duane Gish, highly qualified to address the topic, points out that factors affecting a specimen, including variation in temperature and especially pH (acidity vs. alkalinity), can dramatically speed up the rate of racemization. Merely giving the old-age assumption the benefit of the doubt, however, by assuming the lowest reasonable alkalinity and temperatures for the life of the specimen, retains amino acid racemization as a powerful tool for falsifying million and billion year dates, especially when combined with extant soft tissue and plentiful radiocarbon. See more at RSF's List of Not So Old Things.



    Today’s Resources: Get the Spike Psarris DVD What You Aren't Being Told About Astronomy and Vol. II, Our Created Stars and Galaxies! Have you browsed through our Science Department in the KGOV Store? Check out especially Walt Brown’s In the Beginning and Bob’s interviews with this great scientist in Walt Brown Week! You also might enjoy Bob Enyart’s Age of the Earth Debate against a well-known geophysicist and a University of Colorado mathematician who are members of the Denver chapter of Reasons to Believe. And Bob strongly recommends that you subscribe to CMI’s tremendous Creation magazine!

    * YouTube Video of the RSR Offer to Jack Horner: Steven Spielberg had famed paleontologist Jack Horner on the set as a technical advisor during the filming of all three Jurassic Park blockbuster movies. This YouTube video presents the Real Science Radio phone call by which we offered Jack Horner a grant of $23,000 to carbon date either their Wankel T. rex or their pregnant (at the time of its death) B. rex.

    WARNING: Graphic video here.

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    So either Pastor Bob does not know much about C14 or he misrepresents on purpose. Take your pick.
    "Against stupidity, the gods themselves fight in vain", G. Smiley

    "Send money, guns and lawyers..." W. Zevon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jukia View Post
    So either Pastor Bob does not know much about C14 or he misrepresents on purpose. Take your pick.
    Evolutionists love false dichotomies.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

    Nominate POTYs. See this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jukia View Post
    So either Pastor Bob does not know much about C14 or he misrepresents on purpose. Take your pick.
    As Stripe pointed out...false dichotomy, also known as the fallacy of the excluded middle.
    Another choice, and I believe the correct one is that Bob knows about C14 and honestly represents it.
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    ... I believe ... that Bob knows about C14 and honestly represents it.
    Then you must believe that a pastor with rather limited scientific training and an openly-expressed disdain for much of science is more qualified in C14 than the vast majority of scientists who routinely actually use C14 in their work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavisBJ View Post
    Then you must believe that a pastor with rather limited scientific training and an openly-expressed disdain for much of science is more qualified in C14 than the vast majority of scientists who routinely actually use C14 in their work.
    Nope. There is no logical connection between what 6 said and your conclusion.

    We prefer a rational discussion.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

    Nominate POTYs. See this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Nope. There is no logical connection between what 6 said and your conclusion.

    We prefer a rational discussion.
    I fail to see what you are quibbling over. If 6 says that Bob knows about and honestly represents C14 dating, is it invalid for me to point out that the majority of the scientific community that uses C14 feels it is a valid tool for establishing dates?

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    Feel free to talk about something interesting.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

    Nominate POTYs. See this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Feel free to talk about something interesting.
    If you are not interested, I assume you are mature enough to know that you are not required to participate.

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    What was misrepresented? Surely any scientist would be willing to accept a $23,000 grant in exchange for performing a few tests.
    fidelis usque ad mortem

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    Quote Originally Posted by chatmaggot View Post
    What was misrepresented? Surely any scientist would be willing to accept a $23,000 grant in exchange for performing a few tests.
    Exactly!!
    But what was misrepresented was what I said. (Why do evolutionists do that so often?)

    REVIEW TIME
    Jukia "So either Pastor Bob does not know much about C14 or he misrepresents on purpose. Take your pick."

    6days "As Stripe pointed out...false dichotomy, also known as the fallacy of the excluded middle.
    Another choice, and I believe the correct one is that Bob knows about C14 and honestly represents it"

    DavisBJ "If 6 says that Bob knows about and honestly represents C14 dating, is it invalid for me to point out that the majority of the scientific community that uses C14 feels it is a valid tool for establishing dates?"

    Answer to BJ... See chatmaggots answer.
    Without Genesis, absolutely nothing makes sense in all of Scripture.

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    Do creationists accept any radiometric dating?
    "Against stupidity, the gods themselves fight in vain", G. Smiley

    "Send money, guns and lawyers..." W. Zevon

    "If it is possible for something to happen, that is evidence that it did happen." Stripe on TOL

    "There but for fortune...", P. Ochs

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6days View Post
    Answer to BJ... See chatmaggots answer.
    I saw chatmaggotís reply. I presume he is indicating the scientists Bob put his offer to were afraid somehow they would end up looking foolish. Whatever their reason for not taking Bob up, that is a completely separate question from what I asked. I am wondering why, if radiometric dating is seriously flawed, it is a pastor with limited scientific training that is more conversant with the weaknesses of such dating than the literally thousands of scientists who have advanced degrees and years of involvement with it that donít see those weaknesses. Can you elucidate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DavisBJ View Post
    I saw chatmaggotís reply. I presume he is indicating the scientists Bob put his offer to were afraid somehow they would end up looking foolish. Whatever their reason for not taking Bob up, that is a completely separate question from what I asked. I am wondering why, if radiometric dating is seriously flawed, it is a pastor with limited scientific training that is more conversant with the weaknesses of such dating than the literally thousands of scientists who have advanced degrees and years of involvement with it that donít see those weaknesses. Can you elucidate?
    Evolutionists love discussions that lead down rabbit holes.
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    When the world is a monster
    Bad to swallow you whole
    Kick the clay that holds the teeth in
    Throw your trolls out the door

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

    Nominate POTYs. See this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Evolutionists love discussions that lead down rabbit holes.
    If you are not interested, I assume you are mature enough to know that you are not required to participate.

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