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Thread: One-on-One: AMR and God's Truth — The Holy Trinity

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    I am asking you to debate what I have said so far.
    GT,

    You merely repeat some Scripture posts, highlight some words and declare everything to be self-evident. Again, that is insufficient. Back up your use of Scripture with even a hint of exegesis and I will take you seriously.

    Also, you need not quote my entire post to respond to it. You can quote a small portion or extract specific portions you wish to respond to.

    AMR
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    It should be obvious that God’s Truth (GT) is not quite grasping the concept of the One-on-One. Rather than meet me here to discuss the topic she prefers to carry on elsewhere. So I have extracted some comments she has made to others in the parallel discussion thread as grounding for my next response.

    GT on the nature of the Godhead:
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    I believe Jesus is God; therefore, he is the Father, because God is the Father. I believe Jesus is the Holy Spirit, because Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.
    I believe the three are One and the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Their personalities are the same.
    Jesus says he only does what the Father does.
    Jesus says he only says what the Father says.
    How do you get that it means they are different and separate?
    GT’s obvious confusion about Trinitarian doctrine:
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    The trinity doctrines says they cannot explain how Jesus is God but not the Father who is God.
    The trinity doctrine says they cannot explain how Jesus is God but not the Holy Spirit who is God.
    I will not believe something just because you say so. Show me how Jesus is God but not the Father who is God.
    The trinity doctrine also says that God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit are different and separate.
    God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit are not different and separate, they are always together and the same.
    Study these scriptures harder: John 16:13-14; John 5:19; John 8:28; John 12:49; and, John 12:50.
    While I am disappointed that GT prefers to say more about her views in other threads than in this one I am grateful to have these unsubstantiated assertions to work with in our One-on-One. I have asked several times for GT to explain her position in detail, yet she continues to deflect and merely reassert when asked. Fortunately earlier above, GT wondered, If Jesus is God, and he is, then he must also be the Father who is God, also the Holy Spirit. You have not explained how Jesus is God but not the Father and the Holy Spirit .

    From the above quotations GT’s confusion lies in confusing ontology and distinctions with respect to the Godhead. Ontologically, there is no difference between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not three, separate, divine essences (or beings). The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are co-equal, co-participants of the one divine essence. When speaking of the Godhead in formal theological terms, we would properly say that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three personal subsistences of the one, divine, essence. I will explain what I mean by this later below.

    The essence of something is that something’s being. In the Greek, the word is ousia. The word essence has its root in the Latin, to be. When speaking of God, the question arises as to how God’s essence makes its existence known, for God is more than having being or existence. Indeed, God is being , for He declared this to be so to Moses in Exodus 3:14-15:

    14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM .” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”
    15 Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’
    In the passage above (see also John 5:26; Acts 17:24-25) God declares His self-existence (aseity), importing a boundless, ineffable, absolute, and transcendent being.

    If we study in Scripture aspects of the composition of God’s essence, that is, His nature, several important attributes of God’s nature emerge:

    1.God is spirit’ (John 4:24) possessing
    - personality (Genesis 3:9-23; Genesis 18:17; Exodus 3:3-6; Exodus 19:9-19)
    - self-consciousness (Exodus 3:14; 1 Corinthians 2:9, 10)
    - self-determination (Isaiah 40-66; Ephesians 1:5, 9, 11; Deuteronomy 29:29)
    - life (Deuteronomy 5:26; Jeremiah 10:10, 11; 1 Thessalonians 1:9)
    - activity (Psalms 84:1-2; Ecclesiastes 12:14; Mark 9:41)
    - intelligence (Psalms 104:24; 1 Samuel 1:3; Isaiah 11:2; Job 38-41)

    2.the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath, there is no other’ (Deuteronomy 4:39)
    - Scriptural doctrines of monotheism (Deuteronomy 4:35; Deuteronomy 6:4-5; Isaiah 44:6-7; James 2:19)

    3.our God is greater than all gods’ (2 Chronicles 2:5)
    - self-existence (Exodus 3:14; John 5:26; Jeremiah 2:13; Psalms 36:9)
    - eternity (Psalms 90:2; Isaiah 57:15; Hebrews 1:2; 1 Timothy 1:17)
    - immensity (1 Kings 8:27; Romans 8:38, 39)
    - omnipresence (Psalms 139:7-10; Jeremiah 23:23-24)
    - omniscience (Hebrews 4:13; 2 Chronicles 16:9; Isaiah 46:9-11)
    - omnipotence (Matthew 19:26; Genesis 17:1; Jeremiah 32:17; Isaiah 40:28; Ephesians 1:11; Revelations 19:6)
    - incomprehensibility (Psalms 36:5-6; Romans 11:33, cf. 34-35; Job 11:7)
    - absoluteness (1 Timothy 6:15; Romans 1:25)
    - infinity (Ephesians 1:23; Jeremiah 23:23-24; Psalms 139:7-12; Psalms 147:5; Job 11:7-9)
    - transcendence and immanence (Isaiah 57:15; Psalms 139:7-10; John 8:23)
    - time and space, [i]time-space[i] (Psalms 90:1-2; 1 Corinthians 2:7; Romans 8:39; 1 Kings 8:27)

    4.Oh give thanks to the Lord, for he is good ’ (Psalms 107:1)
    - holiness (Psalms 99:9; Psalms 51:11; Isaiah 57:15; Psalms 105:42; Psalms 89:35)
    - righteousness (Psalms 11:7; Titus 1:2; 2 Timothy 2:13; Psalms 89:14; Psalms 119:137; Romans 3:21; Revelations 16:4-7)
    - truth (John 17:3; Jeremiah 33:6; 2 Samuel 2:6; Exodus 34:6; John 1:17; Romans 3:4)
    - [i]faithfulness[i] (Deuteronomy 7:9-11; Deuteronomy 32:4; Jeremiah 16:19; Psalms 89:18; Psalms 19:7; Deuteronomy 6:26)
    - love (1 John 4:19; 1 John 4:12; John 4:8)
    - mercy (Psalms 145:15-16; Psalms 106:1; Psalms 136:11; Acts 14:17)

    5.the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit’ (Matthew 28:19)
    Here we come to the “essence” of the discussion with GT and anyone else who would deny the Trinitarian nature of the Godhead. In this baptismal command, we find the distinctions of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being made within the Godhead. As I noted in a previous post, it is in the New Testament where we find the Trinitarian truths within the Old Testament perfected, extended and enlarged.

    I have spoken about the essence of God above. How does essence make its existence known? If we were in one of my past Jesuit philosophy classes we would examine in the abstract how essence individuates with respect to existence and the means of this individuation. Fortunately we are not, so we look to Scripture to learn how the essence of God exercises existence, that is, how the essence of God subsists. When something really exists we say this something possesses subsistence. And when we speak of the characteristics of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, we are speaking about the individuated subsistences of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. These subsistences do not divide the essence of God. God’s essence is common to the three subsistences, each possessing the essence as one undivided nature—‘as all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Christ’, so in the Holy Spirit; and of the Father.

    Contrary to Scripture, GT apparently believes that there is but one subsistence of God’s essence, for on the nature of the Godhead she writes:

    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    I believe Jesus is God; therefore, he is the Father, because God is the Father. I believe Jesus is the Holy Spirit, because Jesus is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.
    I believe the three are One and the same .
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Their personalities are the same.
    Jesus says he only does what the Father does.
    Jesus says he only says what the Father says.
    How do you get that it means they are different and separate?
    In my next post I will discuss GT’s erroneous conclusions in greater detail.

    AMR
    Last edited by Ask Mr. Religion; November 30th, 2013 at 11:40 PM. Reason: changing pronouns to reflect GT's gender
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    I will be happy to do so. Stay tuned.
    I am still waiting.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    GT,

    You merely repeat some Scripture posts, highlight some words and declare everything to be self-evident. Again, that is insufficient. Back up your use of Scripture with even a hint of exegesis and I will take you seriously.

    Also, you need not quote my entire post to respond to it. You can quote a small portion or extract specific portions you wish to respond to.

    AMR
    I do not have to post your entire post. You repeat nonsense too much.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    -
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Fortunately earlier above, GT wondered, If Jesus is God, and he is, then he must also be the Father who is God, also the Holy Spirit. You have not explained how Jesus is God but not the Father and the Holy Spirit .

    From the above quotations GT’s confusion lies in confusing ontology and distinctions with respect to the Godhead. Ontologically, there is no difference between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not three, separate, divine essences (or beings). The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are co-equal, co-participants of the one divine essence. When speaking of the Godhead in formal theological terms, we would properly say that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three personal subsistences of the one, divine, essence. I will explain what I mean by this later below.

    The essence of something is that something’s being. In the Greek, the word is ousia. The word essence has its root in the Latin, to be. When speaking of God, the question arises as to how God’s essence makes its existence known, for God is more than having being or existence. Indeed, God is being , for He declared this to be so to Moses in Exodus 3:14-15:

    14 And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM .” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”
    15 Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’
    In the passage above (see also John 5:26; Acts 17:24-25) God declares His self-existence (aseity), importing a boundless, ineffable, absolute, and transcendent being.

    If we study in Scripture aspects of the composition of God’s essence, that is, His nature, several important attributes of God’s nature emerge:

    1. ‘God is spirit’ (John 4:24) possessing
    - personality (Genesis 3:9-23; Genesis 18:17; Exodus 3:3-6; Exodus 19:9-19)
    - self-consciousness (Exodus 3:14; 1 Corinthians 2:9, 10)
    - self-determination (Isaiah 40-66; Ephesians 1:5, 9, 11; Deuteronomy 29:29)
    - life (Deuteronomy 5:26; Jeremiah 10:10, 11; 1 Thessalonians 1:9)
    - activity (Psalms 84:1-2; Ecclesiastes 12:14; Mark 9:41)
    - intelligence (Psalms 104:24; 1 Samuel 1:3; Isaiah 11:2; Job 38-41)

    2. ‘the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath, there is no other’ (Deuteronomy 4:39)
    - Scriptural doctrines of monotheism (Deuteronomy 4:35; Deuteronomy 6:4-5; Isaiah 44:6-7; James 2:19)

    3. ‘our God is greater than all gods’ (2 Chronicles 2:5)
    - self-existence (Exodus 3:14; John 5:26; Jeremiah 2:13; Psalms 36:9)
    - eternity (Psalms 90:2; Isaiah 57:15; Hebrews 1:2; 1 Timothy 1:17)
    - immensity (1 Kings 8:27; Romans 8:38, 39)
    - omnipresence (Psalms 139:7-10; Jeremiah 23:23-24)
    - omniscience (Hebrews 4:13; 2 Chronicles 16:9; Isaiah 46:9-11)
    - omnipotence (Matthew 19:26; Genesis 17:1; Jeremiah 32:17; Isaiah 40:28; Ephesians 1:11; Revelations 19:6)
    - incomprehensibility (Psalms 36:5-6; Romans 11:33, cf. 34-35; Job 11:7)
    - absoluteness (1 Timothy 6:15; Romans 1:25)
    - infinity (Ephesians 1:23; Jeremiah 23:23-24; Psalms 139:7-12; Psalms 147:5; Job 11:7-9)
    - transcendence and immanence (Isaiah 57:15; Psalms 139:7-10; John 8:23)
    - time and space, [i]time-space[i] (Psalms 90:1-2; 1 Corinthians 2:7; Romans 8:39; 1 Kings 8:27)

    4. ‘Oh give thanks to the Lord, for he is good ’ (Psalms 107:1)
    - holiness (Psalms 99:9; Psalms 51:11; Isaiah 57:15; Psalms 105:42; Psalms 89:35)
    - righteousness (Psalms 11:7; Titus 1:2; 2 Timothy 2:13; Psalms 89:14; Psalms 119:137; Romans 3:21; Revelations 16:4-7)
    - truth (John 17:3; Jeremiah 33:6; 2 Samuel 2:6; Exodus 34:6; John 1:17; Romans 3:4)
    - [i]faithfulness[i] (Deuteronomy 7:9-11; Deuteronomy 32:4; Jeremiah 16:19; Psalms 89:18; Psalms 19:7; Deuteronomy 6:26)
    - love (1 John 4:19; 1 John 4:12; John 4:8)
    - mercy (Psalms 145:15-16; Psalms 106:1; Psalms 136:11; Acts 14:17)

    5. ‘the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit’ (Matthew 28:19)
    Here we come to the “essence” of the discussion with GT and anyone else who would deny the Trinitarian nature of the Godhead. In this baptismal command, we find the distinctions of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being made within the Godhead. As I noted in a previous post, it is in the New Testament where we find the Trinitarian truths within the Old Testament perfected, extended and enlarged.

    I have spoken about the essence of God above. How does essence make its existence known?
    Use words the Bible uses. Where in the Bible does it say what you say? Where in the Bible does it say God is essence? State plainly what you believe God’s essence is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    If we were in one of my past Jesuit philosophy classes we would examine in the abstract how essence individuates with respect to existence and the means of this individuation. Fortunately we are not, so we look to Scripture to learn how the essence of God exercises existence, that is, how the essence of God subsists. When something really exists we say this something possesses subsistence. And when we speak of the characteristics of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, we are speaking about the individuated subsistences of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. These subsistences do not divide the essence of God. God’s essence is common to the three subsistences, each possessing the essence as one undivided nature—‘as all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Christ’, so in the Holy Spirit; and of the Father.
    You have explained nothing. You say God is essence, yet you have no scripture that says that. You say God is essence, but you do not state what kind of essence. Spirit and soul are essences. Why cannot you state plainly what essence you believe God is? Here, I will help you.
    God is Spirit.
    Here is the scripture that tells us that:
    John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
    Is that the essence you are attributing to God, yes or no?
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    -
    Use words the Bible uses. Where in the Bible does it say what you say? Where in the Bible does it say God is essence? State plainly what you believe God’s essence is.

    You have explained nothing. You say God is essence, yet you have no scripture that says that. You say God is essence, but you do not state what kind of essence. Spirit and soul are essences. Why cannot you state plainly what essence you believe God is? Here, I will help you.
    God is Spirit.
    Here is the scripture that tells us that:
    John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
    Is that the essence you are attributing to God, yes or no?
    GT,

    I am sorry, but you may not understand what essence means.

    You claim God is a Spirit so God cannot have essence. You need to understand that the word essence is not restricted to physical properties.

    The essence of God is the full nature of what God is. It is also proper to say that the being of God is His essence.

    AMR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    GT,

    I am sorry, but you may not understand what essence means.

    You claim God is a Spirit
    The Bible SAYS that God is Spirit. That is why I say God is Spirit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    so God cannot have essence.
    The Bible does NOT say God is essence.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    You need to understand that the word essence is not restricted to physical properties.

    The essence of God is the full nature of what God is. It is also proper to say that the being of God is His essence.

    AMR
    I know what essence means. Look it up in the dictionary.
    The synonyms for essence is spirit or soul.
    The Bible does NOT say God is essence.
    The Bibles says God is Spirit.
    Speak according to the word.

    Isaiah 8:20 NASB To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    The Bible SAYS that God is Spirit. That is why I say God is Spirit.
    The Bible does NOT say God is essence…
    …I know what essence means. Look it up in the dictionary.
    The word “essence” need not be in Scripture for Scripture to teach us about the being of God, which is His essence! You need to release this wooden literalism approach to Scripture. If you know what essence means then you know very well that statements in Scripture about God’s nature are statements about God’s essence. Your petulant refusal to agree is embarrassing.

    In John 4:24 we read that God’s essential nature is spirit. Likewise in 1 John 1:5, God is light, and 1 John 4:8, God is love. God is not material and Jesus emphatically states God is Spirit to make the point that since God is essentially spirit it necessarily follows that worship of Him must be spiritual in kind. Jesus here, reminding us of his intimate knowledge (Matthew 11:27), declares God’s essence transcends that of all other spirits—human or angelic.
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    GT’s position is that there are no personal distinctions between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit:
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    Their personalities are the same.


    GT asks:
    Quote Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
    How do you get that it means they are different and separate?


    In Scripture we read that God described as blessed forever. When we consider the time before God created anything, then if God is blessed forever all the necessary conditions for this blessedness must exist within Himself alone. God did not need to create the universe to have an object to know, express joy, to love. If God existed alone without creation He would still be a Trinitarian God. Within the essence of God exists society of communion, blessedness, and self-knowledge independent of the created universe. I do not imply the Godhead is composed of separate substances, but rather distinctives of one substance—a unity that is trinal. Scripture supports these statements for we read of “filled with all the fullness of God” (Ephesians 3:19) and “the fullness of the Godhead” (Colossians 1:19; 2:9). A fullness of being implies a variety of existence. Consider the distinctions of God who judges out of which comes the sense of sin and guilt. God atones to pay for sin and guilt. God regenerates and converts to remove sin and guilt. There is but one God we owe for all these things, but the personal distinctions of our one God at work in these things. But I am getting ahead of myself with these conclusions.

    If we are to prove from Scripture there is such a thing as a Trinity we need to identify Scripture mentioning the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as well as Scripture that teaches the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

    The following text examples from Scripture mention the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: Matthew 3:16-17; Matthew 28:19; John 14;16; John 15:26; 1 Corinthians 12:4–6; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Ephesians 2:18; Ephesians 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; Jude 20-21; Revelation 1:4-5.

    Before looking at Scriptures teaching the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, we need to face head on the issues with the word “person” when used in Trinitarian discussions. Up until now I have avoided using the word in favor of subsistence. Understanding the Trinity is not helped by the plethora of terms that have been used to describe the personal distinctions within the Godhead. In the Greek we will encounter, hypostasis (Hebrews 1:3), hypokeimenon , or prosopon (Luke 12:56). In the Latin, we find substantia and persona used. Lastly, in the English, hypostasis, subsistence, distinction, person, relation, and mode.

    In Philippians 2:6 the Apostle defines what a Trinitarian Person is: a form of God. These forms of God are three. The first person is the whole divine ousia (essence) subsisting (hyparchon) in the paternal form (morphe)—God the Father. The second person is the whole divine essence subsisting in filial form (John 5:26)—God the Son. The third person is the whole divine essence subsisting in the spirated (spirit) form (John 15:16)—God the Holy Spirit.

    In other words, one simple essence (substance), three modes of subsistence (not modes as in the sense used by Unitarianism or Sabellianism), which are often called “persons”, which do not divide the essence of the one absolute God. Instead God’s essence is common to the three Persons in God, not communicated from one to another; each of them partake of the essence, and possess it as one undivided nature—“as all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Christ”, so in the Holy Spirit; and of the Father. One God who eternally exists in three different persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, all of whom are fully God, all of whom are equal (Romans 16:26; Revelations 1:17; Matthew 28:20; Acts 17:28-29; John 14-16).

    GT, in particular note that God the Son, one of the above forms of God, took the form of a servant, a likeness of men while not giving up His original divine form. Here from the Apostle we learn that a Person of the Trinity is invisible in form or more of divine essence. To be material or bodily, an incarnation would be required. In other words, contrary to your views, the Son of God possessed no body and was invisible, just like the Father and Holy Spirit, before the incarnation.

    Contrary to your position, GT, that these persons of the Trinity are different, having clear distinctions is clear from Scripture. We cannot claim the actions of one person of the Trinity can be equally assigned to another person of the Trinity. For example, we know from Scripture that God the Father sends God the Son. We cannot say that God the Son sends God the Son. We read in Scripture that God the Father loves God the Son. We cannot say that God the Son loves God the Son. Rather Scripture teaches us that each of the persons of the Trinity are objective to one another: Phil. 2:5–11; Heb. 2:9; Gen. 16:7; John 14:26; Isa. 9:6; Gen. 1:26; 11:7; John 17:5; Luke 3:22; John 14:6; Heb. 1:8; Matt. 11:27; Zech. 13:7; John 14:10–11; John 3:35.

    That each of these persons of the Trinity are divine and possess distinctive personalities can be seen from the following:
    Spoiler

    1. There is only one true God:
    OT: Exod 8:10; 9:14; 15:11; Deut 4:35,39; 6:4; 10:14; 32:39; 33:26; Josh 2:11; 1Sam 2:2; 2Sam 7:22; 1Ki 8:23,60; 2Ki 5:15;1Chr 16:26; 17:20; Neh 9:6; Ps 18:31; 71:19; 86:8-10; 96:5; 113:4f; Isa 37:16,20; 43:10f; 44:6,8; 45:5f,14,18,21f; 46:5,9f; Jer 10:6-10; Hos 13:4; Zech 14:9; Mal 2:10.

    NT: Mark 12:29,32; John 5:44; 17:3; 1Cor 8:4-6; Gal 3:20; Eph 4:6; 1Tim 2:5.

    Nevertheless, the one true God existence is Trinitarian given:

    2. The Father is God:
    OT: Deut 32:6; Ps 89:26; Isa 63:16; 64:8; Mal 1:6; 2:10.

    NT: Matt 6:9; John 6:27; 20:17; Rom 1:7; 1Cor 1:3; Eph 1:2; 4:6; 5:20; 6:23; Phil 1:2; 2:11; 4:20; Col 1:2; 3:17; 1Thes 1:1,3; 3:11,13; 2Thes 1:1f; 2:16; 1Tim 1:2; Phlm 1:3; Jude 1:1.

    3. The Son is God:
    A) Called God or Ascribed Deity:
    OT: Gen 19:24; Ps 45:7; Isa 7:14; 9:6; Jer 23:5f; Zech 2:8-3:2; 12:1,10

    NT: Matt 1:22f; John 1:1; 5:18; 20:28; Acts 20:28; Rom 8:9; 9:5; Phil 2:5-9; Col 2:9; 1Tim 3:16; Titus 2:13; Heb 1:3,8-12; 2Pet 1:1; 1John 5:20.

    B) Possess the Attributes of God.
    1) Personal: All of Jesus' interactions with people in the Gospels are proof of His personhood (e.g, Matt 3:13-15; 4:18-22; 8:1-22; 9:1-38). Jesus is also specifically said to possess wisdom (Luke 2:52), a will (Luke 22:42), and a mind (1Cor 2:16; Phil 2:5).

    2) Creator and Sustainer: John 1:3; Col 1:16f; Heb 1:2 (cp. Job 9:8; Isa 44:24).

    3) Live Giver: John 1:4; 4:10-14; 5:21; 6:40, 44; 11:25; Acts 3:15; 1Cor 15:45; 1John 5:11; Rev 1:18.

    4) Spirit/ Invisible: Not applicable due to the incarnation. Jesus now has a real physical body.

    5) Omnipresent: Matt 18:20; 28:20; John 1:48; 3:13; Eph 1:22f; 4:10.

    6) Omniscient: Matt 9:4; 11:27; 12:25; Mark 2:8; 12:15; Luke 5:22; 6:8; 9:47; 11:17; John 2:23-25; 4:16-18; 16:30; 21:17; Rev 2:23.

    7) Knows the Future: Matt 16:21; 17:22f; 20:17-19,22f; 24:1-25; 26:21-25,31-35; Mark 8:31; 9:31; 13:1-23; 14:27-30,72; Luke 9:22,44; 18:31-33; 21:5-24; 22:10-13; John 2:19; 6:64,70f; 13:11,36-38; 21:18f.

    8) Omnipotent: Matt 28:18; Phil 3:20f; Rev 1:8; 3:7.

    9) Sovereign: Dan 7:13f; Matt 17:24-27; 28:18; Acts 10:36; Eph 1:20-22; Heb 1:3.

    10) King over all the earth/ King of kings: Psalm 45:1-7; Dan 7:13f; Matt 25:34,40; John 18:37; Heb 1:8; Rev 11:15; 17:14; 19:16.

    11) Lord of all the earth/ Lord of lords: Matt 11:27; Phil 2:9-11; Acts 10:36; Rom 10:12; Rev 17:14; 19:16.

    12) God over all false gods/ God of gods: John 10:31-39; Acts 17:18,31; 1Cor 8:5f.

    13) Incomprehensible: Matt 11:27; Eph 3:19.

    14) Eternal (The First and the Last/ The Alpha and Omega/ The Beginning and End): Isa 9:6; Micah 5:2; John 1:1; 17:5,24; Col 1:17; Heb 1:8,10f; 7:3; Rev 1:8,11,17f; 2:8; 11:15; 22:12-16.

    15) Self-Existent (I Am/ The Living God): I Am! Matt 14:27; Mark 6:50; 14:62; John 6:20; 8:24,58; 13:19; 18:5f,8 (Note: Some versions have "It is I" in these verses, but the literal phrase is "I Am!") Other: John 5:26; 1Cor 15:45.

    16) Immutable/ Faithful/ Worthy of Trust: Phil 2:24; 1Thes 5:24; 2Thes 3:3; 2Tim 2:13; Heb 1:8-12; 2:17; 3:2; 10:23; 13:8; Rev 3:14,17; 19:11.

    17) Perfect/ Incomparable/ Awesome/ Great: Judg 13:6; Luke 13:32; John 6:68; Heb 2:10; 5:9; 12:2; 2Pet 1:16 (cp. Luke 9:43).

    18) Good/ Goodness: John 7:12; 10:32; Acts 10:38; Eph 2:7.

    19) Holy: Josh 5:13-15 (cp, Exod 3:5); Isa 53:9; Matt 26:59f; Luke 5:8; John 8:46; 2Cor 5:21; Heb 4:15; 7:26; Rev 1:17.

    20) Righteous and Just: Zech 9:9; Matt 12:20; 27:19,24; Luke 18:8; 23:47; John 5:20; 7:18; Acts 3:14; 22:14; 1Cor 1:30; 1Tim 3:16; 2Tim 4:8; Heb 1:9; 1Pet 3:18; 2Pet 1:1; 1John 1:9; 2:29; 19:11.

    21) Truth: Matt 22:16; Mark 12:14,32; John 1:14,17; 7:18; 8:40,45f; 14:6; 18:37; 2Cor 11:10; Eph 4:21; 1John 5:20; Rev 3:7,14; 19:11.

    22) Light: Matt 4:16; 17:2; 24:27; Luke 1:78f; 2:32; 17:24; John 1:4,9; 3:19-21; 8:12; 9:5; 12:35f,46; Acts 9:3f; 22:6-11; 26:12-18; Eph 5:14; Rev 21:23.

    23) Judge: Ps 2:7-9; Matt 16:27; 25:31-46 [cp. Ezek 34:17]; John 5:22-27; Acts 10:42; 17:31; Rom 2:16; 1Cor 4:5; 2Cor 5:10f; Eph 6:8; 2Tim 4:1,8; Jam 5:9; 1Pet 4:5; Rev 2:23; 19:11.

    24) Fire: Matt 3:10-12; Luke 3:16f; 2Thes 1:7f; Rev 1:14 (cp. Dan 7:9); 19:12.

    25) Wrath: Ps 2:12; Rev 6:15-17; 19:15.

    26) Grace, Mercy, Compassion, and Love: Matt 9:36; 14:14; 15:32; 20:28,34; Mark 1:41; 6:34; 8:2; Luke 7:13; John 1:14,17; 13:1; 15:9-13; Acts 15:11; Rom 5:21; 8:35; 16:20; 1Cor 16:23; 2Cor 5:14; 13:14; Gal 6:18; Eph 3:19; Phil 4:23; 1Thes 5:28; 2Thes 3:18; 1Tim 1:2; 2Tim 1:2,18; Tit 1:4; Phlm 1:25; 2John 1:3; Jude 1:21; Rev 22:21.

    27) Forgives Sin: Mark 2:5-11; Luke 7:47-50; Col 3:13; Jam 5:15.

    28) Redeems/ Redeemer: Rom 3:24; 1Cor 1:30 Gal 3:13; 4:4f; Eph 1:7; Col 1:14; Titus 2:14; Heb 9:12-15; 1Pet 1:18f; Rev 5:9; 14:3f.

    29) Saves/ Savior: Zech 9:9; Matt 1:21; 18:11; Luke 2:11; 9:56; 19:10; John 3:17; 4:42; 10:9; 5:34; 12:47; Acts 2:47; 4:12; 5:31; 13:23;16:30f; Rom 5:9f; 10:8-13; Eph 5:23; Phil 3:20; 1Tim 1:15; 2Tim 1:10; 2:10; 3:15; Titus 1:4; 2:13; 3:6; Heb 2:10; 7:25; 9:28; 2Pet 1:1,11; 2:20; 3:2,15; 1John 4:14; Rev 7:10; 9:28; 2Pet 1:1,11; 2:20; 3:2,15; 1John 4:14; Rev 7:10.

    30) Rock: Rom 9:33; 1Cor 10:4; 1Pet 2:7f.

    31) Shepherd: Mic 5:4; Matt 25:32; John 10:11,14-16; Heb 13:20; 1Peter 2:25; 5:4; Rev 7:16f.

    32) Father: Not applicable as Jesus is the Son, not the Father.

    33) Glorious/ Wonderful: Judg 13:18; Isa 4:2; 9:6; 11:10; Matt 21:15; 25:31; Luke 13:17; Titus 2:13.

    34) Hears and Answers Prayer: John 14:13f; Acts 7:59f; 2Cor 12:8f; 1John 5:13-15; Rev 5:8 (cp. 8:4).

    35) Worthy of Worship and All Praise: Josh 5:13f; Matt 14:33; 21:9,16f; 28:9,17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38; Phil 2:10f; 2Tim 4:18; Heb 1:6; 2Peter 3:18; Rev 5:8-14. While it is true that some of these attributes could be said about people or angels, no person or angel possesses almost all of them as Jesus Christ does. Thus putting all of them together is strong proof Jesus is fully God.

    C) Additional Attributes of Deity: Controls the weather: Matt 14:30-33; Mark 4:36-41; (cp. Job 38:25-38; Ps 135:7).
    Gives commandments: Matt 5:27f,31-48 (cp. Exod 20:1-17).
    Fills the hungry soul: John 6:48-51 (cp. Ps 107:9).
    Receives sacred service (Gr., latreuo): Rev 22:3 (cp. Matt 4:10).

    D) Theophanies = Christophanies:
    The NT teaches no on can see God (John 1:18; 6:46). But people did see the Lord in the OT (e.g., Isa 6:1-8). Appearances of the Lord in the OT are actually appearances of God the Son (John 12:37,41). It is God the Father that people cannot see (1Tim 6:16).

    E) The Angel of the Lord and the Lord:
    In the OT, the Angel of the Lord is both distinct from the Lord and identified with Him. The appearances of the Angel of the Lord are appearances of the pre-incarnate Christ.

    Distinct subsistences ("persons"): 2Sam 24:16f; 1Chr 21:15f,27; Zech 1:12. Same Person: Gen 22:1f,11f,15f; Gen 28:10-22 (cp. 31:11-13); 48:15f (Note: "bless" is singular). Exod 3:2,4 Exod 13:21; 14:19. Exod 20:1f; Deut 1:6-8; Judg 2:1-4; Judg 2:1-4; Judg 6:11-21 (cp. vv.11f with v.14) Judg 13:21f. Hosea 12:3-5.

    F) God and the Lamb: In the Revelation, God and the Lamb are distinct and from each other yet identified with each other. Rev 7:10,17; 21:22f; 22:1,3 (cp. Isa 60:19f).

    G) OT Passages in NT:
    Passages in the OT referring to God are quoted or alluded to in the NT as referring to the Son. Ps 8:2 / Matt 21:16. Ps 102:25-27 / Heb 1:10-12. Ps 130:8 / Matt 1:21. Isa 26:19; 60:1 / Eph 5:14. Isa 40:3/ Matt 3:3 Isa 43:10 / Acts 1:8. Isa 45:23 / Phil 2:10. Jer 2:13; 17:13 / John 4:13f; 7:37. Jer 9:24 / 2Cor 10:17f. Jer 17:10 / Rev 2:23. Joel 2:32 / Rom 10:13. Mal 3:1 / Mark 1:2.

    4. The Holy Spirit is a Person capable of thought, will, and interaction with others.
    A) Has a mind and a will. Rom 8:27; 1Cor 12:11.

    B) Acts 13:1-5: Speaks, commands, and calls: verse 2. Refers to Himself with personal pronouns: "to Me" and "I" - verse 2. Sends out missionaries: verse 4.
    C) Elsewhere in the Book of Acts: Inspires Scripture: Acts 1:16.
    Is lied to: Acts 5:3.
    Bears witness: Acts 5:32.
    Instructs: Acts 8:29.
    Comforts: Acts 9:31.
    Tells and sends: Acts 10:19f; 11:12.
    Knows what is good: Acts 15:28.
    Forbids: Acts 16:6f.
    Testifies: Acts 20:23.
    Appoints church officers: Acts 20:28.
    Prophesies: Acts 28:25.

    D) Elsewhere in the Bible: Hovers: Gen 1:2 (cp. Deut 32:11).
    Speaks: 2Sam 23:2; Ezek 2:2-3:14,24ff; 11:5-12; John 16:13; Acts 1:16; 21:11; 28:25; 1Tim 4:1; Heb 3:7; Rev 2:7,11,17,29; 3:1,6,13,22; 14:13; 22:17.
    Gives plans: 1Chr 28:11f.
    Instructs: Neh 9:20.
    Sends: Isa 48:16; Ezek 2:2f.
    Grieves: Isa 63:10; Eph 4:30.
    Inspires Scripture: Zech 7:12; 2Pet 1:21.
    Leads: Matt 4:1; Mark 1:12; Luke 4:1; Rom 8:14.
    Speaks for believers: Matt 10:19f.
    Can be blasphemed: Matt 12:31f; Mark 3:29; Luke 12:10.
    Teaches: Luke 12:12; John 14:26.
    Witnesses: John 15:26; Heb 10:15-17; Rom 8:16; Heb 10:15; 1John 5:6.
    Assures, leads, bears witness, and enables: Rom 8:14-17.
    Helps and makes intercession: Rom 8:26f (cp. v.34; 1Tim 2:5).
    Loves: Rom 15:30.
    Searches: 1Cor 2:10f.
    Justifies: 1Cor 6:11.
    Gives gifts: 1Cor 12:8-11; Heb 2:4.
    Fellowships: 2Cor 13:14; Phil 2:1.
    Reveals: Eph 3:5.
    Instructs: 1Tim 4:1; Heb 9:8.
    Is insulted: Heb 10:29.
    Commands: Rev 22:17.

    E) John 14:16: The Spirit is "another Counselor" (allos parakletos) besides Jesus (1John 2:1; the Greek word is also parakletos). Note also, allos indicates another of the same kind. It is distinct from heteros, which indicators another of a different kind (e.g., Gal 1:6f, "different" in v. 6 is heteros, "another" in v. 7 is allos). Since Jesus is a Person, the Holy Spirit must be of the same kind and thus a Person also.

    5. The Holy Spirit is God:
    A) Equated with God: Exod 29:45f; Haggai 2:5. 2Sam 23:2f Acts 5:3,4. Rom 5:5; 2Thes 3:5. 1Cor 12:6,11,18. 2Cor 3:17f.

    B) Possesses the Attributes of God:
    1) Personal: See previous section.

    2) Creator: Gen 1:2b; Job 26:13; Ps 104:30.

    3) Live Giver: Gen 2:7; Job 27:3; 33:4; Rom 8:2,11; 1Pet 3:18.

    4) Spirit/ Invisible: Self-evident.

    5) Omnipresent: Numb 11:25f; Ps 139:7-10; Joel 2:28f; John 3:34; Acts 4:31; 5:32; 8:15-17; 10:44; 19:6; Rom 5:5; 8:9; 1Cor 3:16; 6:19; Gal 4:6; 2Tim 1:14.

    6) Omniscient: Isa 43:10; 1Cor 2:10f.

    7) Knows the Future: Luke 2:26; John 16:13; Acts 1:16; 11:28; 20:22f; 21:11,33; 1Tim 4:1; 1Pet 1:11.

    8) Omnipotent: Luke 1:35-37; Rom 15:19.

    9) Eternal: Heb 9:14.

    10) Good/ Goodness: Neh 9:20; Ps 143:10.

    11) Holy: "Holy Spirit" appears 95 times. See also Rom 1:4.

    12) Truth: John 14:17; 15:26; 16:13; 1John 5:6.

    13) Fire: Acts 2:3f; Rev 4:5.

    14) Grace, Mercy, Compassion, and Love: Zech 12:10; Heb 10:29.

    15) Glorious/ Wonderful: 2Cor 3:8; 1Peter 4:14.

    16) Hears and Answers Prayer: Rom 8:26f; Eph 6:18; Jude 1:20. The number of attributes of God ascribed to the Spirit is not as all-encompassing as for the Son, but number is still significant and sufficient to establish His deity.

    C) Additional Attributes of God: Calls into ministry: Acts 13:2; 20:28.
    Inspires Scripture: Zech 7:12; 2Pet 1:20f; Rev 2:7.
    Gives eternal life: John 3:3-8; Titus 3:5.

    D) The Temple of God = The Temple of the Holy Spirit:
    The bodies of Christians are described as being the temple of God and as being the temple of the Holy Spirit since we are filled with the Holy Spirit, who is God. 1Cor 3:16; 6:19; 2Cor 6:16; Eph 3:19; 5:18.

    E) The Spirit's Words are Equated with God's Words: Lev 16:1-34 / Heb 9:7f. Isa 6:9f / Acts 28:25-27. Jer 31:33f / Heb 10:15f.

    6. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct from each other:
    A) In the OT: Gen 1:1-3,26f; 11:7; 19:24; Neh 9:20; Ps 2:1-9; Prov 30:4; Isa 6:8; 48:16; 63:11; Dan 7:13f; Zech 2:8-3:2.

    B) In the Gospels:
    Matt 3:16; 4:1,6; 11:25-27; 12:32f; 14:23; 16:16f; 17:5; 22:44; 26:39,42; 27:46; 28:18f; Mark 1:1,8; 12:36; 13:32; 15:34; 16:19; Luke 4:18; 6:12; 11:13; 20:42f; 23:34,46; John 1:1f; 3:16-18,34-36; 5:19-23,26f,30f,36-38,43-45; 6:27,37-46; 8:17f; 11:41f: 13:1; 14:6,16f,23-31; 15:26; 16:13-16,25-28,32; 17:1-28; 20:17,21f.

    C) In the Book of Acts:
    2:22-36; 3:13-15,19f,26; 4:24-30; 7:55f; 10:34-42; 13:33-37; 15:8; 17:30f; 20:21.

    D) In the Pauline Epistles:
    Rom 1:1-9; 1Cor 1:1-9; 2:10f; 15:23-28; 2Cor 1:1-3; 2:14f; 3:3-6; 5:18-21; 13:14; Gal 1:1-5; 4:4-6; Eph 1:2-23; 2:1-10,18; 3:14-21; 4:4-6; 5:1f; 6:23; Phil 1:2,11; 2:5-11; Col 1:2f,19f; 2:2; 3:1; 1Thes 1:1,3; 4:8; 5:9; 2Thes 1:2; 2:13-17; 1Tim 1:1f; 2Tim 1:1f; 4:1; Tit 1:4; Phlm 1:3.

    E) In the General Epistles and The Revelation:
    Heb 1:1-9,13; 2:9,17; 5:5-10; 7:25; 9:14,24; 10:5-13; 12:2; 13:20f; Jam 1:1; 1Pet 1:1-3,17-21; 2:4-6; 3:18,22; 5:10; 1John 1:3,7; 2:1; 4:7-10; 5:6,11; 2John 1:3,9; Jude 1:1,20f; Rev 1:1-6; 5:9f,13; 21:22f; 22:1,17.

    GT, I have provided my answer to your question concerning the differences that can be seen in the persons of the Trinity. I await your detailed explanation to the contrary.

    AMR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    The word “essence” need not be in Scripture for Scripture to teach us about the being of God, which is His essence! You need to release this wooden literalism approach to Scripture. If you know what essence means then you know very well that statements in Scripture about God’s nature are statements about God’s essence. Your petulant refusal to agree is embarrassing.
    You went against me for saying God is Spirit. You should be embarrassed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post

    In John 4:24 we read that God’s essential nature is spirit. Likewise in 1 John 1:5, God is light, and 1 John 4:8, God is love. God is not material and Jesus emphatically states God is Spirit to make the point that since God is essentially spirit it necessarily follows that worship of Him must be spiritual in kind. Jesus here, reminding us of his intimate knowledge (Matthew 11:27), declares God’s essence transcends that of all other spirits—human or angelic.
    If you stop saying what the Bible does not say, maybe you can learn something.

    Stop saying, “God is essence”. Speak what the scriptures say. Say God is Spirit. Then I will show you how God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit are One and the same.


    P.S. Stop putting all those hidden links in your posts.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    GT’s position is that there are no personal distinctions between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit:
    Their personalities are the same. They are not different. God is the Father. The Father is God, and He came as a Son of Man, a Son of God. The Son is exactly like the Father, and both are the same God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post

    In Scripture we read that God described as blessed forever. When we consider the time before God created anything, then if God is blessed forever all the necessary conditions for this blessedness must exist within Himself alone. God did not need to create the universe to have an object to know, express joy, to love.
    Give scripture that says “God did not need to create the universe to have an object to know, express joy, to love.”
    Jesus brought the Father glory on earth by finishing the work He gave him to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post


    If God existed alone without creation He would still be a Trinitarian God.

    Within the essence of God exists society of communion, blessedness, and self-knowledge independent of the created universe. I do not imply the Godhead is composed of separate substances, but rather distinctives of one substance—a unity that is trinal. Scripture supports these statements for we read of “filled with all the fullness of God” (Ephesians 3:19) and “the fullness of the Godhead” (Colossians 1:19; 2:9). A fullness of being implies a variety of existence. Consider the distinctions of God who judges out of which comes the sense of sin and guilt. God atones to pay for sin and guilt. God regenerates and converts to remove sin and guilt. There is but one God we owe for all these things, but the personal distinctions of our one God at work in these things. But I am getting ahead of myself with these conclusions.

    If we are to prove from Scripture there is such a thing as a Trinity we need to identify Scripture mentioning the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as well as Scripture that teaches the deity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

    The following text examples from Scripture mention the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: Matthew 3:16-17; Matthew 28:19; John 14;16; John 15:26; 1 Corinthians 12:4–6; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Ephesians 2:18; Ephesians 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; Jude 20-21; Revelation 1:4-5.

    Before looking at Scriptures teaching the diety of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, we need to face head on the issues with the word “person” when used in Trinitarian discussions. Up until now I have avoided using the word in favor of subsistence. Understanding the Trinity is not helped by the plethora of terms that have been used to describe the personal distinctions within the Godhead. In the Greek we will encounter, hypostasis (Hebrews 1:3), hypokeimenon , or prosopon (Luke 12:56). In the Latin, we find substantia and persona used. Lastly, in the English, hypostasis, subsistence, distinction, person, relation, and mode.

    In Philippians 2:6 the Apostle defines what a Trinitarian Person is: a form of God. These forms of God are three. The first person is the whole divine ousia (essence) subsisting (hyparchon) in the paternal form (morphe)—God the Father. The second person is the whole divine essence subsisting in filial form (John 5:26)—God the Son. The third person is the whole divine essence subsisting in the spirated (spirit) form (John 15:16)—God the Holy Spirit.

    In other words, one simple essence (substance), three modes of subsistence (not modes as in the sense used by Unitarianism or Sabellianism), which are often called “persons”, which do not divide the essence of the one absolute God. Instead God’s essence is common to the three Persons in God, not communicated from one to another; each of them partake of the essence, and possess it as one undivided nature—“as all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Christ”, so in the Holy Spirit; and of the Father. One God who eternally exists in three different persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, all of whom are fully God, all of whom are equal (Romans 16:26; Revelations 1:17; Matthew 28:20; Acts 17:28-29; John 14-16).

    GT, in particular note that God the Son, one of the above forms of God, took the form of a servant, a likeness of men while not giving up His original divine form. Here from the Apostle we learn that a Person of the Trinity is invisible in form or more of divine essence. To be material or bodily, an incarnation would be required. In other words, contrary to your views, the Son of God possessed no body and was invisible, just like the Father and Holy Spirit, before the incarnation.

    Contrary to your position, GT, that these persons of the Trinity are different, having clear distinctions is clear from Scripture. We cannot claim the actions of one person of the Trinity can be equally assigned to another person of the Trinity. For example, we know from Scripture that God the Father sends God the Son. We cannot say that God the Son sends God the Son. We read in Scripture that God the Father loves God the Son. We cannot say that God the Son loves God the Son. Rather Scripture teaches us that each of the persons of the Trinity are objective to one another: Phil. 2:5–11; Heb. 2:9; Gen. 16:7; John 14:26; Isa. 9:6; Gen. 1:26; 11:7; John 17:5; Luke 3:22; John 14:6; Heb. 1:8; Matt. 11:27; Zech. 13:7; John 14:10–11; John 3:35.

    That each of these persons of the Trinity are divine and possess distinctive personalities can be seen from the following:
    Spoiler
    GT, I have provided my answer to your question concerning the differences that can be seen in the persons of the Trinity. I await your detailed explanation to the contrary.

    Your writing is lengthy, but you still have not explained anything.


    God created Himself the physical, Spiritual Body of the Man Jesus Christ before the creation of anything. God SPOKE and there was light. So then, we can see that God creates with HIS WORD. God spoke and created a body for HIM, this is the same person who spoke in the Old Testament. That is God. Jesus is the Word of God. Jesus was the Word of God before Jesus’ name as ‘Jesus’ was revealed.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    GT is obviously ill-equipped to defend her beliefs. All she has done is continue to make assertions without offering anything that resembles exegesis of Scripture. I have shown how Scripture supports the fact that the Godhead consists of three personal subsistences-Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I have shown that these three persons are possessive simultaneously of the one divine essence. And that these persons possess distinctive personalities. To date GT is left mute, only able to say "No!" to my arguments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    GT is obviously ill-equipped to defend her beliefs.
    That is not true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    All she has done is continue to make assertions without offering anything that resembles exegesis of Scripture.
    I have explained my beliefs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post

    I have shown how Scripture supports the fact that the Godhead consists of three personal subsistences-Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
    You have stated falseness. You will not even use words supported by scripture. You use the word ‘essence’ instead of Spirit, or Light. You use words that support your false doctrine and hide the Truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    I have shown that these three persons are possessive simultaneously of the one divine essence.
    Again, state what the essence is according to scripture---so we can speak of what is written in the Bible, and not merely what your false teachers have written.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    And that these persons possess distinctive personalities. To date GT is left mute, only able to say "No!" to my arguments.
    That is all you do.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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    GT,

    Let’s recap on several important aspects of the Trinity. This will be important, even if you refuse to read the content. GT, you deny the Trinity, claiming it makes for a three-headed God. One cannot willfully deny the Trinity and be a true Christian. It is an essential of the faith. Yet, you claim to believe Jesus is God. This means you have fallen into one of the various heresies related to the nature of the Incarnation that I described in my opening post in this One-on-One.

    From your denial I am forced to assume you consider appearances of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Scripture to be but mere manifestations, wherein the divine essence is at one time entirely manifest as the Father (but not in or as the Son or Holy Spirit), and then at another moment manifest exclusively as the Son, and yet again at another time solely as the Spirit. This is the denounced heresies of [b]Modalistic Monarchianism or Sabellianism, a characteristic of the United Pentecostal Church. Your denial sounds very familiar: “One God in three eternal manifestations.” (Src: T.D. Jakes)

    As discussed in my previous posts, all three persons of the Godhead exist simultaneously and are not mere manifestations. The Persons of the Trinity are not three separate divine essences. They are co-equal and co-sharers of the one divine essence of God. The only thing that is different from the Father to the Son to the Holy Spirit are their personal properties: unbegottenness, filiation, procession. Hence we say, in theological terms, the three Persons of the Trinity are three personal subsistences of the one, divine, essence. The word "Person" is unfortunately become overtaken by contemporary meanings, versus what the word meant when the doctrine of the Trinity was formulated from Scripture many, many, years ago. From Scripture prosopon is used of God the Father, so do not fall into the error of thinking person equals human being in discussions of the Trinity. GT, I think if you can agree with this caveat then some of your objections to the Trinity may just start to melt away.

    God is a simple and uncompounded spiritual being. We can say the same by stating, God is a simple and uncompounded spiritual essence. Essence is that by which something is what it is, that is, its nature. Generally speaking, essence and being are interchangeable in most discussions of God. Some also use nature and essence interchangeably.

    GT continues to irrationally complain that the word essence is not to be used when discussing God. She says the word is not in the Bible so its use is forbidden. The objection “the word does not appear in the Bible” is specious. In fact it is a degringolade—admitting defeat without even knowing it.

    The word essence used of God signifies the divine nature with all its attributes, which exists but once in the Three Persons. By the term "essence" is meant the divine nature as it is in itself, all of which, with its attributes, is most simply one and singular, and thus also of the Three Persons the essence is only one. The term "essence" is therefore applied to God in a unique sense. When we apply it to men, namely, to denote something which is common to all men, the word is used as a generic term or as an abstract noun, which denotes something that does not exist concretely, but is merely abstracted from the concretely existing human beings. For example, "It is the essence of man to think or to will". However, when we speak of the divine essence which is common to the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, the term "essence" is neither generic nor abstract, but concrete, denoting something that exists actually and concretely and belongs to the three divine Persons as one in number. In other words, the term "essence" denotes God Himself as He divinely exists as One in Three. The essence of God is God's spiritual and independent nature, common to the three divine Persons.

    While there is but one essence of God, there are three distinctly different modes of subsistence in that essence, which we call Persons. Unfortunately, as I stated above, in this modern era the word person carries much more baggage than it did when the Trinitarian doctrines were being formulated. We tend to think of a person as a separately existing beings from other beings. It is generally admitted that the word person is but an imperfect expression of the idea of the Persons of the Godhead. Hence, in God there are not three individuals alongside of, and separate from, one another, but three personal self-distinctions within the single divine essence, i.e., three modes of subsistence. Thus we can say that the divine essence does not exist independently along with the three Persons. The divine essence has no existence outside of and apart from the three Persons. For if the divine essence did, there would be no true unity, but a division that would lead into tetratheism.

    As stated, a divine person is not the same thing as a human individual. This is however, the closest analogy we have in our finite experience. As you will find in aBrakel and elsewhere, whenever we start to conceive of God, we must resort to the via negative, that is discussing, as I have been, what God is not when speaking of what God is.

    So, while we can think of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as distinct modes of subsistence or as distinct persons, we must deny the separateness these distinct modes of subsistence will always imply when it comes to the human analogy. We must think of God as one in essence, but we must deny that this unity precludes a diversity of modes of subsistence, again as it would with the human analogy. When speaking of the mind, like will, both are attributes of the nature and are not personal distinctions. God is of one will, and one mind. Each person of the Godhead has access to, use of, the entire extend of the mind. Yet, in the ultimate sense, we cannot make these separations for God does not have a mind or a will-- God is His mind and His will. The will of each person of the Godhead is always unified, for to be otherwise would mean that God is double-minded. May it never be!

    Whenever we think about God our thinking will be partial, discursive, successive, and limited. The church has been careful to keep these limitations and qualifications in mind and still be precise and definite.


    GT, I have found that accepting the Scriptural testimony of the deity of Jesus Christ is an important stepping stone to acknowledging the Trinity:
    1- There is one and only one God, eternal, immutable.
    2- There are three eternal Persons described in Scripture—the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. These Persons are never identified with one another - that is, they are carefully differentiated as Persons.
    3- The Father, the Son, and the Spirit, are identified as being fully deity—the Scriptures teach the Deity of Christ and the Deity of the Holy Spirit.


    GT, unless we think of God as Trinitarian, we have no true knowledge of God.

    That Jesus Christ is fully divine was shown to be clear from Scripture (see my earlier posts). From a few of these passages I have listed we observe:

    Old Testament calls the Messiah God

    Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

    Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

    Matthew 1:23 "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").


    Jesus' opponents understand Jesus as claiming to be God.

    John 8:54-59
    54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.

    55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word.
    56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
    57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
    58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

    59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

    John 10:31-33
    31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him,

    32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
    33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”


    These statements of Jesus are seen as blasphemy--a claim to be God. Jesus said he was God. When quizzed about how He has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am"—invoking and applying to himself the personal name of God—"I Am" (Ex. 3:14). The reaction of His audience clearly indicates that they understood exactly what Jesus was claiming about himself.

    Jesus' approach was to reveal His identity inductively. The Pharisees' problem was not their logic in understanding the implications of Jesus' statements; it was their rejection of the conclusion and its implications. Jesus could have simply denied their conclusion as He did when they make false statements about Him. GT, you and I would deny the statement of anyone who asked us if we are God. You and I would tell people not to worship us. But Jesus readily accepted worship.

    Jesus allows Thomas to call Him God without rebuke

    John 20:26-29
    26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”

    27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
    28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
    29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

    NOTE: Paul (Acts 14:11-15), Peter (Acts 10:2-26) and angels (Rev. 22:8-9) rebuke those who call them gods.


    Jesus commands baptism in the names of the persons of the Godhead

    Jesus tells the Apostles to baptize "in the name [notice, singular, not plural] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19). This is a proof-text—three distinct Persons united in the one divine name. In 2 Corinthians 13:14, Paul writes, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all." We see this same unity of divine Persons in 1 Corinthians 12:4–11, Ephesians 4:4–6, and 1 Peter 1:2–3.

    Also significant are passages that apply the title "the First and the Last" to Jesus. This is one of the Old Testament titles of LORD: "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, LORD of armies: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god’" (Isaiah 44:6; cf. 41:4, 48:12).

    It should be obvious by now that the Scriptures teach that Jesus is God (cf. John 8:58, 10:38, 14:10; Col. 2:9). The Scriptures also teach that the Holy Spirit is God (cf. Acts 5:3–4, 28:25–28; 1 Cor. 2:10–13). Now few would dispute that the Father is God. Yet there is only one God (Mark 12:29, 1 Cor. 8:4–6, James 2:19). How can we hold these four truths except to say all three are One God? GT, can you explain how you deny the Trinity yet would hold to these four truths?

    GT, given the ample evidence of the deity of Christ, and that you affirm Jesus was fully God, I would appreciate your answers to the following questions:

    1. Was Jesus’ divinity a different substance than that of God the Father?
    2. Did Jesus possess a rational human soul?
    3. Was the divinity of Jesus a distinct person of the Trinity?
    4. Was Jesus God acting in the form of the Son?
    5. Were the divine and human natures of Jesus mixed together?
    6. Did the union of the divine and human natures in Jesus change the divine nature?
    7. Were the divine and human natures of Jesus two distinct persons?
    8. Did Jesus possess a true humanity?
    9. Did God the Son set aside any of his divine attributes during the Incarnation? For example, was God the Son still omnipresent while Jesus was walking the roads of Palestine?
    10. Did the divinity of Jesus communicate any of the divine attributes to the humanity of Jesus?
    11. Did Jesus exist independently as a human before God the Son assumed his humanity?


    AMR

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  18. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    GT,

    Let’s recap on several important aspects of the Trinity. This will be important, even if you refuse to read the content. GT, you deny the Trinity, claiming it makes for a three-headed God.
    I deny the trinity doctrine. I do not deny that there are three.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    One cannot willfully deny the Trinity and be a true Christian.
    I know I am a true Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    It is an essential of the faith. Yet, you claim to believe Jesus is God. This means you have fallen into one of the various heresies related to the nature of the Incarnation that I described in my opening post in this One-on-One.
    I believe that God came to us in the flesh. You say another God other than the Father came in the flesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post

    From your denial I am forced to assume you consider appearances of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Scripture to be but mere manifestations, wherein the divine essence is at one time entirely manifest as the Father (but not in or as the Son or Holy Spirit), and then at another moment manifest exclusively as the Son, and yet again at another time solely as the Spirit.
    It sounds as if you are describing modalism. Modalists do not believe the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit exist at the same time. I do not believe like that. I know they exist at the same time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    This is the denounced heresies of [b]Modalistic Monarchianism or Sabellianism, a characteristic of the United Pentecostal Church. Your denial sounds very familiar: “One God in three eternal manifestations.” (Src: T.D. Jakes)
    How many times do I have to explain to you how my beliefs are different from that of modalism? I could not care less about your false teachers declaring something as heresy. It does nothing for your defense to bring up what your false teachers say about what you think I believe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post

    As discussed in my previous posts, all three persons of the Godhead exist simultaneously and are not mere manifestations.
    Why did you choose the word ‘manifestations’? That is kind of an odd choice of word. How exactly do you get that Jesus coming in the flesh is a manifestation?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    The Persons of the Trinity are not three separate divine essences.
    Now you say they are not separate. That is an improvement. You say here again ‘essences’. Are you willing to admit that the essence is Spirit? If yes, then you just admitted that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the same Spirit. That would be the truth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    They are co-equal and co-sharers of the one divine essence of God. The only thing that is different from the Father to the Son to the Holy Spirit are their personal properties: unbegottenness, filiation, procession. Hence we say, in theological terms, the three Persons of the Trinity are three personal subsistences of the one, divine, essence. The word "Person" is unfortunately become overtaken by contemporary meanings, versus what the word meant when the doctrine of the Trinity was formulated from Scripture many, many, years ago. From Scripture prosopon is used of God the Father, so do not fall into the error of thinking person equals human being in discussions of the Trinity.
    I do not think they are three humans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    GT, I think if you can agree with this caveat then some of your objections to the Trinity may just start to melt away.
    I think you finally understand the error of the trinity doctrine and are moving away from it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    GT continues to irrationally complain that the word essence is not to be used when discussing God. She says the word is not in the Bible so its use is forbidden. The objection “the word does not appear in the Bible” is specious. In fact it is a degringolade—admitting defeat without even knowing it.
    You do not want to say what essence God is because then you think you can better defend your false doctrine. If you are forced to speak according to the word, then you would have to stop calling God an essence, you would have to say that God is Spirit. Once you are forced to say God is Spirit, you will have to admit that there is only one Spirit. Once you admit there is only one Spirit, then you will have to admit that God is Spirit, and that same Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, and the Holy Spirit. However, you fight against the truth and deny it. Since you cannot be forced, we then spend much time with you arguing about nonsense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    The word essence used of God signifies the divine nature with all its attributes, which exists but once in the Three Persons. By the term "essence" is meant the divine nature as it is in itself, all of which, with its attributes, is most simply one and singular, and thus also of the Three Persons the essence is only one. The term "essence" is therefore applied to God in a unique sense. When we apply it to men, namely, to denote something which is common to all men, the word is used as a generic term or as an abstract noun, which denotes something that does not exist concretely, but is merely abstracted from the concretely existing human beings. For example, "It is the essence of man to think or to will". However, when we speak of the divine essence which is common to the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, the term "essence" is neither generic nor abstract, but concrete, denoting something that exists actually and concretely and belongs to the three divine Persons as one in number. In other words, the term "essence" denotes God Himself as He divinely exists as One in Three. The essence of God is God's spiritual and independent nature, common to the three divine Persons.
    I prove my case. Read above.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post

    While there is but one essence of God, there are three distinctly different modes of subsistence in that essence, which we call Persons. Unfortunately, as I stated above, in this modern era the word person carries much more baggage than it did when the Trinitarian doctrines were being formulated. We tend to think of a person as a separately existing beings from other beings. It is generally admitted that the word person is but an imperfect expression of the idea of the Persons of the Godhead. Hence, in God there are not three individuals alongside of, and separate from, one another, but three personal self-distinctions within the single divine essence, i.e., three modes of subsistence.
    Thus we can say that the divine essence does not exist independently along with the three Persons. The divine essence has no existence outside of and apart from the three Persons. For if the divine essence did, there would be no true unity, but a division that would lead into tetratheism.
    That was nothing but falseness and contradictions when you say that they are not separate, but then say they are distinct. Distinct means different. They are not distinct. They are not different. God came in the flesh. Jesus only says what the Father says. The Holy Spirit only says what Jesus says.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    As stated, a divine person is not the same thing as a human individual. This is however, the closest analogy we have in our finite experience. As you will find in aBrakel and elsewhere, whenever we start to conceive of God, we must resort to the via negative, that is discussing, as I have been, what God is not when speaking of what God is.
    You can say God is Spirit, but you will not say it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    So, while we can think of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as distinct modes of subsistence or as distinct persons, we must deny the separateness these distinct modes of subsistence will always imply when it comes to the human analogy. We must think of God as one in essence, but we must deny that this unity precludes a diversity of modes of subsistence, again as it would with the human analogy.
    Again, if you are forced to say that the essence of God is Spirit, then your trinity doctrine is forced to admit error. Since the essence of God is Spirit, then you have to admit that the same Spirit is in Jesus, and is the Holy Spirit. All three are the same Spirit.
    The trinity doctrine will only say God is essence, but will not say what the essence is; thus the illusion of teaching something as if truth. When trinitarians are asked to explain some consequences to their beliefs, they merely deny them. When questioned about some consequences to their beliefs, they also say it is unexplainable. If it is not explainable, then there is no way you can defend it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    When speaking of the mind, like will, both are attributes of the nature and are not personal distinctions. God is of one will, and one mind. Each person of the Godhead has access to, use of, the entire extend of the mind. Yet, in the ultimate sense, we cannot make these separations for God does not have a mind or a will-- God is His mind and His will.
    More contradictions, more confusion; you cannot say that God does not have a will, and then say He is a will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    The will of each person of the Godhead is always unified, for to be otherwise would mean that God is double-minded. May it never be!

    Whenever we think about God our thinking will be partial, discursive, successive, and limited. The church has been careful to keep these limitations and qualifications in mind and still be precise and definite.

    GT, I have found that accepting the Scriptural testimony of the deity of Jesus Christ is an important stepping stone to acknowledging the Trinity:
    1- There is one and only one God, eternal, immutable.
    2- There are three eternal Persons described in Scripture—the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. These Persons are never identified with one another - that is, they are carefully differentiated as Persons.
    You are in error. Jesus says when you see him you see the Father. Jesus says he only says what the Father says. Jesus only does what the Father does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post

    GT, unless we think of God as Trinitarian, we have no true knowledge of God.
    There are three, and the three are One and the same. I do not believe you have true knowledge of God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post

    That Jesus Christ is fully divine was shown to be clear from Scripture (see my earlier posts). From a few of these passages I have listed we observe:
    When you debate someone, you should try to remember what his or her beliefs are. Where have I ever said that Jesus was not Divine?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post

    Old Testament calls the Messiah God

    Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

    Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

    Matthew 1:23 "The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" (which means "God with us").

    Jesus' opponents understand Jesus as claiming to be God.

    John 8:54-59
    54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.
    55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word.
    56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
    57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
    58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
    59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

    John 10:31-33
    31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him,
    32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
    33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

    These statements of Jesus are seen as blasphemy--a claim to be God. Jesus said he was God. When quizzed about how He has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am"—invoking and applying to himself the personal name of God—"I Am" (Ex. 3:14). The reaction of His audience clearly indicates that they understood exactly what Jesus was claiming about himself.

    Jesus' approach was to reveal His identity inductively. The Pharisees' problem was not their logic in understanding the implications of Jesus' statements; it was their rejection of the conclusion and its implications. Jesus could have simply denied their conclusion as He did when they make false statements about Him. GT, you and I would deny the statement of anyone who asked us if we are God. You and I would tell people not to worship us. But Jesus readily accepted worship.

    Jesus allows Thomas to call Him God without rebuke

    John 20:26-29
    26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”
    27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
    28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
    29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

    NOTE: Paul (Acts 14:11-15), Peter (Acts 10:2-26) and angels (Rev. 22:8-9) rebuke those who call them gods.
    AMR, is this a copy and paste post? It is as if you are just throwing in ‘GT’occasionally to pretend this is a personal post to me. How do you expect me to read this long irrelevant post if you did not care enough to read it and edit it just for me? You did not take out the part where you say that Jesus is Divine that Jesus is God. I understand most people against the trinity doctrine need to understand that, and it proves that this is nothing more than a copy and paste.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    Jesus commands baptism in the names of the persons of the Godhead

    Jesus tells the Apostles to baptize "in the name [notice, singular, not plural] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19). This is a proof-text—three distinct Persons united in the one divine name. In 2 Corinthians 13:14, Paul writes, "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all." We see this same unity of divine Persons in 1 Corinthians 12:4–11, Ephesians 4:4–6, and 1 Peter 1:2–3.

    Also significant are passages that apply the title "the First and the Last" to Jesus. This is one of the Old Testament titles of LORD: "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, LORD of armies: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god’" (Isaiah 44:6; cf. 41:4, 48:12).

    It should be obvious by now that the Scriptures teach that Jesus is God (cf. John 8:58, 10:38, 14:10; Col. 2:9). The Scriptures also teach that the Holy Spirit is God (cf. Acts 5:3–4, 28:25–28; 1 Cor. 2:10–13). Now few would dispute that the Father is God. Yet there is only one God (Mark 12:29, 1 Cor. 8:4–6, James 2:19). How can we hold these four truths except to say all three are One God? GT, can you explain how you deny the Trinity yet would hold to these four truths?

    GT, given the ample evidence of the deity of Christ, and that you affirm Jesus was God, I would appreciate your answers to the following questions:



    1. Was Jesus’ divinity a different substance than that of God the Father?
    Your lazy editing is showing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post

    2. Did Jesus possess a rational human soul?
    Jesus had a flesh body and his Spirit is the Holy Spirit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post

    3. Was the divinity of Jesus a distinct person of the Trinity?
    Jesus is not distinct from God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post

    4. Was Jesus God acting in the form of the Son?
    Is not that what the trinitarians also believe?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    5. Were the divine and human natures of Jesus mixed together?
    Jesus had an earthly side and a Divine side.
    Romans 1:3
    who, as regards His human descent, belonged to the posterity of David,
    Romans 1:4
    but as regards the holiness of His Spirit was decisively proved by His Resurrection to be the Son of God--I mean concerning Jesus Christ our Lord,
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    6. Did the union of the divine and human natures in Jesus change the divine nature?
    There is weakness in being a human.
    2 Corinthians 13:4 For though it is true that He was crucified through weakness, yet He now lives through the power of God. We also are weak, sharing His weakness, but with Him we shall be full of life to deal with you through the power of God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post

    7. Were the divine and human natures of Jesus two distinct persons?
    God came as a man.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post

    8. Did Jesus possess a true humanity?
    Jesus came in the flesh, but he was no mere man.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
    9. Did God the Son set aside any of his divine attributes during the Incarnation? For example, was God the Son still omnipresent while Jesus was walking the roads of Palestine?
    Jesus is God come in the flesh. God did not stop existing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post

    10. Did the divinity of Jesus communicate any of its attributes to the humanity of Jesus?
    You speak as if God over took a man’s body.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post

    11. Did Jesus exist independently as a human before God the Son assumed his humanity?
    You are speaking as if God just took over a man.
    AMR, stop copying and pasting; discuss and debate my beliefs or concede.
    Oh how I love the Word of God!
    Do not just read the word do it.

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