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Thread: toldailytopic: You are what you eat. How do you feel about genetically modified organ

  1. #61
    Over 3000 post club gcthomas's Avatar
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    Gurucam: you are entirely wrong on MSG on every level.

    MSG is a flavour enhancer, AND IS NOT A PRESERVATIVE, so your main problem with it is false. It is a salt made from glutamate and sodium, so when it dissolves in prepared food it does not stay as MSG, but becomes sodium and glutamate separately.

    The glutamate you absorb from MSG is IDENTICAL chemically to natural glutamates, so it is a proper food nutrient in a diet.

    There are no known side effects of glutamate from MSG. Your worries are therefore, thankfully, groundless.
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    Over 750 post club Doormat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alate_One View Post
    I recall reading about that particular study and it's instructive to read the letter to the editor to which your quote is replying.
    It would be more instructive to read the reply to the criticisms from the study authors that I posted previously. Here it is again:

    Answers to critics: Why there is a long term toxicity due to a Roundup-tolerant genetically modified maize and to a Roundup herbicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Alate_One View Post
    Also the original abstract (the paper the letter addresses) appears to be poorly written from first look,
    Perhaps you should have several looks until you are convinced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alate_One View Post
    plus the study used only ten animals per group when at least fifty is typical.
    They were conducting the experiment according to the standards.

    Necessity to have sensitive strains, recommended by the US National Toxicology Program (King-Herbert et al. 2010). Rats and mice have been preferred experimental models because of their susceptibility to tumor induction (OECD guidelines) ...

    OECD 408 (90-day toxicity study) 10 animals per group OECD 452 (Chronic toxicity study) 20 animals per group but at least 10 animals per group are studied for hematological and clinical biochemical function.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alate_One View Post
    Both round up and round-up ready crops have been already extensively tested.
    Prove your claim.

    Some critics have emphasized that no adverse effects have been reported on either farm animals or in the human population of the USA who have consumed an unknown mixture GMO crop derived food. Such claims are scientifically unsound for the following reasons. First, it is important to note that there have been neither epidemiological studies of the human population nor monitoring of farm animals in an attempt to correlate any ill-health observed with the consumption of a given GM crop. Second, it should be recalled that farm animals are not reared to live for the entire duration of their natural lifespan, and thus usually do not live long enough to develop long-term chronic diseases, which contrasts with the rats in our life-long experiment. If any studies in lactating cows are conducted, biological analyses performed are far less complete than those done in regulatory tests using rodents including in our study. Third, as there is no labeling of GMO food and feed in the USA, the amount consumed is unknown, and no “control group” exists. Thus, without a clear traceability or labeling, no epidemiological survey can be performed.

    .....

    We recall that in the regulatory assessment of GMOs, chemicals and medicines, tests are conducted by the applying companies themselves, often in their own laboratories. As a result, conflicts of interest exist in these cases. These are even not claimed by authors from the company defending the safety of the tested products (Hammond et al., 2012). Our study does not aim to request commercialization of a new product. In contrast, we wanted to estimate the health risk of these products.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alate_One View Post
    I wonder why anyone would even be interested in round-up ready maize as weed control is usually achieved by canopy cover relatively rapidly.
    You will have to ask the developers of Roundup ready corn. Are you wanting to imply that GMO is unnecessary?
    Last edited by Doormat; May 19th, 2013 at 02:01 PM.
    So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.

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    Over 750 post club Doormat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcthomas View Post
    There are no known side effects of glutamate from MSG. Your worries are therefore, thankfully, groundless.
    Excitotoxicity is the pathological process by which nerve cells are damaged and killed by excessive stimulation by neurotransmitters such as glutamate and similar substances.
    So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.

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    Over 3000 post club gcthomas's Avatar
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    Doormat, that is not a side effect of dietary glutamates, but is the result of injury and caused by the body's own supply of glutamates.

    As I wrote, glutamates are a essential nutrient. The body uses them as nuerotransmitters. Your link reinforces this, and lays no blame on glutamates from MSG.

    Please read through your own linked Wiki article - it makes this quite clear.
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    Over 750 post club Doormat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcthomas View Post
    Doormat, that is not a side effect of dietary glutamates, but is the result of injury and caused by the body's own supply of glutamates.
    You say.

    If not for the blood brain barrier, glutamate would cause destruction to certain brain cells in concentrations normally found in the diet. However, there are certain limitations to that protection.

    A recent study suggests that dietary glutamate may be contributing to fibromyalgia symptoms in some patients.

    Quote Originally Posted by gcthomas View Post
    As I wrote, glutamates are a essential nutrient.
    Glutamate is a non-essential amino acid.

    Quote Originally Posted by gcthomas View Post
    The body uses them as nuerotransmitters.
    Yes, in miniscule quantities.
    So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.

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    Over 750 post club Doormat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alate_One View Post
    I'll take a novel, well tested protein over pesticide residue any day.
    Are you wanting to imply that spraying pesticides on crops renders the produce unsafe for your consumption?
    So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doormat View Post
    You say.

    If not for the blood brain barrier, glutamate would cause destruction to certain brain cells in concentrations normally found in the diet. However, there are certain limitations to that protection.

    A recent study suggests that dietary glutamate may be contributing to fibromyalgia symptoms in some patients.

    Glutamate is a non-essential amino acid.

    Yes, in miniscule quantities.


    So you've moved from brain nerve cell damage, now you've got a 'might aggravate irritable bowel syndrome, but more research is needed' (to paraphrase your link).
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    Over 750 post club Doormat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gcthomas View Post
    So you've moved from brain nerve cell damage, now you've got a 'might aggravate irritable bowel syndrome, but more research is needed' (to paraphrase your link).
    My first paragraph was regarding the central nervous system, my second the enteric nervous system. The original point was that "nerve cells are damaged and killed by excessive stimulation by neurotransmitters such as glutamate." It is known that plasma glutamate levels increase with consumption of MSG. Unlike you, I'm not convinced that an increase in a nuerotransmitter in the blood has no effect on the body.

    You have made false statements, claiming there are no known side effects of glutamate from MSG and that glutamate is an essential nutrient. I have shown you one example that there are known side effects to MSG consumption, to the extent that more research is needed. I have also shown you that glutamate is not a an essential nutrient and that it is a non-essential amino acid.
    So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gcthomas View Post
    Gurucam: you are entirely wrong on MSG on every level.

    MSG is a flavour enhancer, AND IS NOT A PRESERVATIVE,
    Seems that they are both.

    Quote Originally Posted by gcthomas View Post
    There are no known side effects of glutamate from MSG. Your worries are therefore, thankfully, groundless.
    Yes there are.

    To avoid headache (possible death of brain cells) and stomach discomfort after eating restaurant Chinese food, I do not put msg in my home cooked Chinese food and eat only that Chinese food. It works.

    Many times I was given to observe sets of the same food after they sat in the summer air for 8 or so hours. Always the set which had msg did not spoil. Guess what? The other always spoil.

    I simply postulated that if that was the circumstances of those food outside my stomach, then that must be same circumstance of these food within my stomach. Food that is inhibited from spoiling cannot be digested.

    Get real my friend.

    "Do not believe every thing that you read in books" (sound like letters killeth) . . . so said Daniel Shectman after his Nobel prize winning Chemistry discovery totally dismissed past accepted scientific wisdom about crystals. But not before being persecuted, side lined, dismissed and ridiculed, by his equally prestigious peers, for coming forth with this discovery earlier.

    Click here for more on Daniel Shectman after his Nobel prize winning Chemistry discovery and his advise to others seeking to be scientific:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...-quasicrystals

    Daniel Shectman is an Israelite. He must know, first hand, that 'the letter killeth where as the Spirit giveth life'. Now he might be a Christian.
    Last edited by Gurucam; May 19th, 2013 at 04:46 PM.

  10. #70
    Journeyman moparguy's Avatar
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    I think it's hilarious that people are upset about this stuff.

    Hello, what do you think we've been doing with animals and plants for MILLENIA? ... Selecting for certain "genetic" traits to create things that *didn't exist in nature.*

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    Quote Originally Posted by moparguy View Post
    I think it's hilarious that people are upset about this stuff.

    Hello, what do you think we've been doing with animals and plants for MILLENIA? ... Selecting for certain "genetic" traits to create things that *didn't exist in nature.*
    Not only man.

    The natural order of this is based on evolution of every living thing to meet the ever changing demands of time.

    In the past man's invasive intervention into this process of evolution was small and more tolerable.

    Recently mankind has taken a quantum leap into interfering with the process of evolution.

    Fact is those modern scientist simply do not know enough to be making these interventions.

    They are like nuclear scientists who while able to produce greater volumes of energy, with less effort are simultaneously creating crazy forces called nuclear waste which can easily be very destructive to all life on the planet.

    And these nuclear scientist do not know how to deal with, contain, dispose of or render harmless, this nuclear waste. This nuclear waste is essentially evil or frustrated spirits. These are just waiting to get out from their inadequate containment and attack every living thing at the level of their spirits.

    You should be aware that forces are spirits.

    Nuclear waste are frustrated spirit which has gone quite mad.

    The natural tendency of the nucleus force of any element is to keep the nucleus together. The job of the nuclear scientist is to frustrate this natural tendency of the nucleus force, through fission.

    Then anger, express as heat energy, is released as an expression of displeasure and frustration within the nuclear force or spirit. And the nuclear force or spirit goes crazy or destabilized. Its peaceful, natural and harmonious existence is frustrated by these modern nuclear scientists who do not have the slightest clue of what they have actually done.

    Now they fight to contain this crazy force which is really an evil spirit which they created.

    Interventions at the level of forces or spirit requires operatives to have a gift of the Spirit which is related to that area of endeavor. Gift of the Spirit comes only to right brain (intuitive) operatives. Our modern scientist (who includes nuclear scientists) are still left brain operatives. They are totally out of their element in this new science reality which is rooted in spirits or forces and which requires right brain operatives.

    DNA is at the final frontier of physical make up of all living things. Our dna is hardly differentiable from our own individual spirits be it humans animals or plants. Our dna (and that of all animals and plants) is a direct expression of our own individual inherent spirit or force. Our inherent spirits sustains our dna in a natural configuration with our individual spirits.

    Therefore when a genetic engineer mess with the dna of any living thing, he is actually unwittingly messing with the essential and natural spirits (or forces) of those living things. Genetic scientists are really very foolish. Their beliefs and actions are actually blasphemy of the Spirit by 'the dead'. A left brain operative is called 'the dead', in Jesus statement 'let the dead bury their dead'. This is exactly what genetic engineers are doing, they are burying their own kind.

    Hear a neuroanatammist on the right and left brain click on this:

    http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=92035
    Last edited by Gurucam; May 19th, 2013 at 08:24 PM.

  12. #72
    Over 750 post club Doormat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moparguy View Post
    I think it's hilarious that people are upset about this stuff.

    Hello, what do you think we've been doing with animals and plants for MILLENIA? ... Selecting for certain "genetic" traits to create things that *didn't exist in nature.*
    GM is completely different than natural breeding.
    So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.

  13. #73
    TOL Subscriber Lon's Avatar
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    I'm Okay with it as long as we each harvest our own vegetables growing out of our ears...

    ...well maybe not, mark me down as "undecided."

    Thanks
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    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

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    Over 3000 post club gcthomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doormat View Post
    GM is completely different than natural breeding.
    Almost completely the same. Both methods introduce novel genes, novel proteins and novel foods that have never been part of our diet.

    Some GM crops are herbicide resistant. Some crossbreed crops are herbicide resistant. Spot the difference?

    What is the functional difference between the two methods of making the same thing?
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    Moparguy,

    You will not come to know Truth (i.e. the way things realty are) by operating through your left side brain. You have to operate through your right side brain in order to know Truth. Truth can only be intuited, it cannot be intellectualized.

    What Jill Bolt Taylor recognized through her rights side brain was Truth (i.e. the way things really are). What we discern though our physical senses and our left side brain are always delusions. This is never what things really are.

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