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Thread: IRS Admits Targeting Conservative Groups; Apologizes

  1. #16
    Over 5000 post club The Barbarian's Avatar
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    It's not surprising that a Bush appointee would abuse his power. Remember that federal prosecutors were expected by the Bush WH to use their discretionary power "loyally."

    WASHINGTON, March 13 — Late in the afternoon on Dec. 4, a deputy to Harriet E. Miers, then the White House counsel and one of President Bush’s most trusted aides, sent a two-line e-mail message to a top Justice Department aide. “We’re a go,” it said, approving a long-brewing plan to remove seven federal prosecutors considered weak or not team players.

    The message, from William K. Kelley of the White House counsel’s office to D. Kyle Sampson, the chief of staff to Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales, put in motion a plan to fire United States attorneys that had been hatched 22 months earlier by Ms. Miers. Three days later, the seven prosecutors were summarily dismissed. An eighth had been forced out in the summer.

    The documents provided by the Justice Department add some new details to the chronicle of the fired prosecutors but leave many critical questions unanswered, including the nature of discussions inside the White House and the level of knowledge and involvement by the president and his closest political aide, Karl Rove...

    In rating the prosecutors, Mr. Sampson factored in whether they “exhibited loyalty to the president and attorney general,” according to documents released by the Justice Department.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/14/wa...2&oref=slogin&

    Given the moral climate in which this person was hired and judged, it might be that he believed he should be considering political factors in his job.

    Might be time for the president to see how many other Bush holdovers have the same ideas.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    All true, but this isn't exactly news. This is the most corrupt government in American history. They do not have America's interets at heart. They are trying to destroy it. As already told over and over and over. They target any group that is conservative, tea party, constitutionalists, everything right and good. He profanes Government in inbelievable ways.
    The government has ALWAYS hated the Ron Paul movement, of course, and has always been attacking it. Whoever is in power.

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    Over 5000 post club The Barbarian's Avatar
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    You can't expect government to love someone who wants to trim it way back. I don't agree with Paul on everything, but we need people like him, just because government tends to expand and become corrupt.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    It's not surprising that a Bush appointee would abuse his power. Remember that federal prosecutors were expected by the Bush WH to use their discretionary power "loyally."

    WASHINGTON, March 13 — Late in the afternoon on Dec. 4, a deputy to Harriet E. Miers, then the White House counsel and one of President Bush’s most trusted aides, sent a two-line e-mail message to a top Justice Department aide. “We’re a go,” it said, approving a long-brewing plan to remove seven federal prosecutors considered weak or not team players.

    The message, from William K. Kelley of the White House counsel’s office to D. Kyle Sampson, the chief of staff to Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales, put in motion a plan to fire United States attorneys that had been hatched 22 months earlier by Ms. Miers. Three days later, the seven prosecutors were summarily dismissed. An eighth had been forced out in the summer.

    The documents provided by the Justice Department add some new details to the chronicle of the fired prosecutors but leave many critical questions unanswered, including the nature of discussions inside the White House and the level of knowledge and involvement by the president and his closest political aide, Karl Rove...

    In rating the prosecutors, Mr. Sampson factored in whether they “exhibited loyalty to the president and attorney general,” according to documents released by the Justice Department.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/14/wa...2&oref=slogin&

    Given the moral climate in which this person was hired and judged, it might be that he believed he should be considering political factors in his job.

    Might be time for the president to see how many other Bush holdovers have the same ideas.
    Definition of a liberal: Still blaming former President Bush for all of the deficiencies of the Obama regime!

  5. #20
    TOL Legend serpentdove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
    All true, but this isn't exactly news...
    Jihad.... Constitution... Jer 7:6

    What's new?
    PlastikBuddah [aka Gamera] make-believer. Kmoney [aka Count Iblis] make-believer. Alate_One deceives students in the classroom. Arthur Brain wants answers. Eph 5:11

    "Being a square keeps you from going around in circles." ~ J Vernon McGee Ro 3:23, 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:13.

  6. #21
    TOL Legend serpentdove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandPaulfor2016 View Post
    The government has ALWAYS hated the Ron Paul movement...
    He's still talking about Ron Paul.

    What's new?
    PlastikBuddah [aka Gamera] make-believer. Kmoney [aka Count Iblis] make-believer. Alate_One deceives students in the classroom. Arthur Brain wants answers. Eph 5:11

    "Being a square keeps you from going around in circles." ~ J Vernon McGee Ro 3:23, 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:13.

  7. #22
    Over 5000 post club The Barbarian's Avatar
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    Definition of a liberal: Still blaming former President Bush for all of the deficiencies of the Obama regime!
    Bush appointed him. But he's now Obama's employee. And Obama was remiss in not making sure that everyone understood that the old way wasn't acceptable anymore.

    The climate of corruption was sufficiently well-documented that he should have known this sort of thing would happen, without some effort to prevent it.

    Unless, of course, Obama or his immediate staff knew that the employee was doing this. Then, it's more than an oversight; it's corruption.

    I'm guessing, since no one has drawn that kind of line yet, there's no evidence for it.
    Let's say that I suffer from a delusion. I will call this delusion "Fact-check Syndrome." I respond by citing facts.

    Most people online don't want to be corrected. They do not care about anything that does not agree with them.

  8. #23
    TOL Legend serpentdove's Avatar
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    What's new?
    PlastikBuddah [aka Gamera] make-believer. Kmoney [aka Count Iblis] make-believer. Alate_One deceives students in the classroom. Arthur Brain wants answers. Eph 5:11

    "Being a square keeps you from going around in circles." ~ J Vernon McGee Ro 3:23, 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:13.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    You can't expect government to love someone who wants to trim it way back. I don't agree with Paul on everything, but we need people like him, just because government tends to expand and become corrupt.
    Yep, government does absolutely do that, and itsgood to know that you're one of the few around here who actually appreciates people who want to roll back government.

    Government exists to serve itself, whether "Conservative" or "Liberal" its all the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by bybee View Post
    Definition of a liberal: Still blaming former President Bush for all of the deficiencies of the Obama regime!
    I agree that its annoying when some liberals do this, but that's only becuase they pretend Obama is somehow not responsible. Bush, however, is responsible for his own bad policies. Obama is responsible for keeping said policies, as well as his own bad policies.

    Quote Originally Posted by serpentdove View Post
    He's still talking about Ron Paul.
    I'm not talking about Ron Paul, I'm talking about the Ron Paul MOVEMENT. The true patriots are hated by both sides because government exists to parasite off the productive. BOTH sides want big government, whether its nation building and regime changing or handouts to everyone.

  10. #25
    Over 1500 post club This Charming Manc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 99lamb View Post
    I guess then, we are at a point of saying 'What is fair' and 'how much of one's income are they allowed to keep?'
    .
    To my mind there are two question on that in a democracy.

    What do they have a mandate for?
    What do you get for your money?

    I've just looked at the stats, the USA government spends just over 25% of GDP, the UK government spends about 40% of GDP.

    But we get

    • a decent education system for all our kids
    • decent healthcare for all
    • decent welfare system


    We all think our taxes should come down a bit, but I think the average Brit is happier with there taxes than the average American

    True, and I sometimes forget my bias, as one who is American, and sees the founding of this country based on individual liberties, sees 'No Taxation without Representation' as having moral underpinnings,and not just a political slogan.
    A low tax position is a perfectly valid one to hold, its just not more moral than one than takes a more 'were all in this together' stance.

    Your right than individualism is the key to the viewpoint, does the bible anywhere suggest individualism is a virtue?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by This Charming Manc View Post
    To my mind there are two question on that in a democracy.
    ...Except that we are not talking about a democracy. We are talking about a Constitutional Republic. I suppose that if you really wanted to wedge "democracy" in there you could say that we are a Constitutional Representative Democracy , but a "Representative Democracy" is just another form of "Republic" so you're really just playing semantics.

    Now...before you decide to "pooh-pooh" the "Constitutional" aspect of that; please be aware that it's significance is quite as important there as it is in a Constitutional Monarchy. If you catch my drift.



    Quote Originally Posted by This Charming Manc View Post
    Your right than individualism is the key to the viewpoint, does the bible anywhere suggest individualism is a virtue?
    Does it suggest collectivism should be mandatory?
    Last edited by TomO; May 13th, 2013 at 06:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by This Charming Manc View Post
    To my mind there are two question on that in a democracy.

    What do they have a mandate for?
    What do you get for your money?

    I've just looked at the stats, the USA government spends just over 25% of GDP, the UK government spends about 40% of GDP.

    But we get

    • a decent education system for all our kids
    • decent healthcare for all
    • decent welfare system


    We all think our taxes should come down a bit, but I think the average Brit is happier with there taxes than the average American



    A low tax position is a perfectly valid one to hold, its just not more moral than one than takes a more 'were all in this together' stance.

    Your right than individualism is the key to the viewpoint, does the bible anywhere suggest individualism is a virtue?
    Its one thing to say "We're all in this together", its another thing to say "We're all in this together, and we'll kill you if you try to maintain control of your own property."

    The latter is an absolutely disgusting position to hold, but its a position that most people hold without even thinking about it because of state indoctrination.

    "Thou shall not steal" seems pretty darn explicit to me.

    And yeah, the US gets a bloated defense budget and an unsustainable entitlement system for its money. That, and the highest prison population in the world. Its DEFINITELY not worth the price. If I had a red button that would instantaneously make FedGov disappear from the planet, I'd push it, and we'd be better off.

    The same is true for the UK government, but your government may well waste less money than ours, simply because its smaller. Same reason the states do a better job than the Feds over here, but what they do still isn't "Good", just less bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomO View Post
    Does it suggest colectivism should be mandatory?
    This is the bottom line. Peter never told Annanias and Saphira they HAD to give to the poor. As such, I don't think Peter would have advocated a government who told them they had to either...

    VOLUNTARY collectivism is not only fine, but excellent. Its coercive collectivism that's the problem.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandPaulfor2016 View Post
    This is the bottom line. Peter never told Annanias and Saphira they HAD to give to the poor. As such, I don't think Peter would have advocated a government who told them they had to either...

    VOLUNTARY collectivism is not only fine, but excellent. Its coercive collectivism that's the problem.
    Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
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  15. #30
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    What's new?
    PlastikBuddah [aka Gamera] make-believer. Kmoney [aka Count Iblis] make-believer. Alate_One deceives students in the classroom. Arthur Brain wants answers. Eph 5:11

    "Being a square keeps you from going around in circles." ~ J Vernon McGee Ro 3:23, 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:13.

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