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Thread: toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they chan

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    Seems to me to be impossible to lose salvation. I know the standard arguments pro and con, but that is where I come out. I think the weight of scripture supports the view of eternal security.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zippy2006 View Post
    Yes:
    It's a pretty simple doctrine. What don't you get about eternal life being once and for all. Do you really believe that you can turn it on and off like a light switch?
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    It's a pretty simple doctrine.
    That's true. The scriptures are also pretty simple. Take 'em or leave 'em.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zippy2006 View Post
    That's true. The scriptures are also pretty simple. Take 'em or leave 'em.
    Yep, they are. Why were Adam and Eve banished from the Garden.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.

    Jim Elliot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 10th, 2013 05:00 AM


    toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they change their mind about wanting to be with God in heaven?






    Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
    If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.
    So, my Brother, you found a big spoon today, eh? The answer to your question as I have been given to understand God's word is yes and no.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inzl Kett View Post
    The theory looks good on paper, but Christ will never reject you.

    There are those out there that attend church and become instructed inthe way of Christianity. They become 'enlightened' and 'tasted' the gift as Hebrew 6:4-6 says.

    4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
    5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
    6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

    They had a taste but they were not transformed by the experience. These are non-committal believers--and the churches are full of them. They have even made a profession of faith, but did not experience genuine saving faith.

    In my own life I was transformed. I am the atheist that never will happen because of my life experiences as a believer. I see the world through the eyes of a Christian because of this transformation. It isn't just a taste--it's complete submersion. It is a change that cannot be reversed.

    John 5:24 -Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
    Inzl, if I may present another translation more closely related to the original texts:

    "For how can those who abandon their faith be brought back to repent again? They were once in God's light; they tasted heaven's gift and received their share of the Holy Spirit; they knew from experience that God's word is good, and they had felt the powers of the coming age. And then they abandoned their faith! It is impossible to bring them back to repent again, because they are again crucifying the Son of God and exposing him to public shame."

    In both translations, there is no mention of never having been transformed.

    Consider 2Peter 3:17-18 "Therefore dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen."

    In the parable of the sower and the seed, there is also no mention of the seed not being good seed or seed that has been transformed but rather seed that grew or didn't based on the nourishment provided ie. grace and knowledge of Yeshua. Yeshua states that only those who do His Father's will will have entrance into the kingdom of heaven. His statement does not negate what he is about to endure for the sake of all humanity, wanting no one to perish, and He did not revise His statement following His resurrection. What Yeshua did stands for all time; He will never reject any who come to Him nor can anyone take His away from Him. What we do, however, in the face of God's grace and knowledge of Yeshua will also stand. Yeshua's words to John are clear: "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." And John is clear as well, "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll." What do we say to Yeshua, John, Peter and Paul, that we know better? I won't, but each one must be fully convinced in his own mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
    It doesn't matter if they can reject salvation. Christ CANNOT reject them. This is the issue. One thing remains: His love NEVER fails!

    I couldn't have said it better

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 10th, 2013 05:00 AM

    toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they change their mind about wanting to be with God in heaven?


    "If salvation was but a mindful decision, was such a one saved?"

    However, for those who have been BORN ANEW there is a big "if"!

    "And you, who were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has He reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, blameless and above reproach in His sight.

    IF you continue in The Faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from The Hope of The Good News, which you have heard, and which WAS preached to every creature which is under Heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister". (Col 1:21-23)

    Father Help! and HE does......

    Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
    If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post

    toldailytopic: Once a person is saved can they reject that salvation should they change their mind about wanting to be with God in heaven?

    What if someone rejects their spouse but the other person, who is in authoritarian charge of the court system, refuses to divorce?

    Similar? No?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
    While some may argue that it is at least theoretically possible, in that we have the freedom of will, I find it impossible to believe anyone who has God in their life would ever desire to leave Him.
    Sad, but true...the reality is that some do apostasize contrary to sanity.

    Exhibit A: http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/...esus/?comments

    The OSAS loop hole will be to say they were never really saved (some vs all cases) or that they are still saved despite rejecting the person and work of Jesus?!
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
    It doesn't matter if they can reject salvation. Christ CANNOT reject them. This is the issue. One thing remains: His love NEVER fails!

    Using this logic, Christ should unconditionally save everyone despite their rejection of Him?

    Heb. 6:4-6 the stern warning about the possibility of apostasy cannot be rationalized away.

    Just as the saving power/grace of the Spirit can be rejected before conversion (vs universalism), so the keeping power/grace of the Spirit can be rejected after conversion (vs OSAS/POTS).

    OSAS only makes sense in a deterministic/monergistic system like Calvinism. Free will relational theism based on love and relationship does not cause, coerce salvation or perseverance.

    Death seals destiny, though, so I don't think it is possible post-mortem to change one's mind about heaven. The sinful, fleshly influences will be gone and we will have full light, unlike now.
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Glory Land View Post
    If I am Saved, how can I get lost again? Now if I am lost, than I am or was always lost, and never was Saved.


    false dichotomy...the other possibility is that you were saved, but no longer are so. Salvation is based on continued relationship/faith, not reversion to godless unbelief (possible if we are not robots).
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

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    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tambora View Post
    If you are granted eternal life, then you cannot lose it; because if you could, it was never eternal to begin with.
    Eternal life is conditioned on being in the Son and remaining in the Son. It is not inherent in us nor continuous if we renounce/reject Him.

    Using your logic, those who are experiencing eternal death as lost ones, cannot lose it and get eternal life or it was not eternal death, blah blah.

    You fail to see the conditional element in the security verses and are ignoring the apostasy warning verses.
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

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    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
    The simple answer No. We are eternally secure in Christ. As said earlier, How do you become unsaved?
    If one can become saved from unsaved, why cannot one be unsaved from saved. Neither salvation nor perseverance are unconditional. You wrongly assume there is an irreversible change instead of seeing a relational element to salvation.
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
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    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimfoxy View Post
    Seems to me to be impossible to lose salvation. I know the standard arguments pro and con, but that is where I come out. I think the weight of scripture supports the view of eternal security.
    The Bible teaches conditional vs unconditional eternal security. Believers are secure. God is faithful, but this does not preclude the possibility of us becoming faithless and reverting to godless unbelief (apostates are unbelievers by definition). Fake converts were never true believers, but apostates fall from truth.

    Just as there are verses about sovereignty and free will, God as one and God as three, so there are verses about security of the believer, but also warnings about the possibility of believers falling away and forfeiting the promises and privileges that only apply to those who believe and continue to believe (ceasing faith is unbelief, a unique sin).
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

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    The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zippy2006 View Post
    That's true. The scriptures are also pretty simple. Take 'em or leave 'em.
    http://www.amazon.com/Life-Son-Rober.../dp/1556610912


    The appendix has verses claimed by OSAS and ones claimed by non-OSAS. It also lists verses claimed by both views, so there are paradigm, exegesis, proof texting issues here.

    Shank was Calvinistic, but gives arguments and exegesis for a biblical view of POTS/eternal security (not OSAS).

    I think the verses are simple too, but come to different conclusions (same with most Arminians/Open Theists vs Calvinists).
    Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

    They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
    I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

    Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

    "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

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