User Tag List

Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst ... 2345678 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 119

Thread: toldailytopic: In your opinion what are some of the most convincing pieces of evidenc

  1. #61
    Over 1000 post club Dena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    1,087
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    4560
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehmill View Post
    He says you are a sinner and you are, He says you will die and you will.
    You haven't given me any proof God said those things. Yes, obviously I will die. All animals die. It's a fact of life. That isn't proof of the existence of one or more deities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehmill View Post
    The exactness with which Christ is foretold in scripture is stunning. I laugh me when see the mutterings of Nostradamus but Christ is told with exactitude.
    First, I have to disagree with you that the exactness is stunning. Much of what Christians use as proof of Jesus in the Hebrew Bible is warped interpretation and makes little sense.

    Secondly, even if it did matched...exactly how difficult would it be to copy one document into another? It isn't.

    Say my holy books describes a future hero to born in Jamaica. His mother will have dark hair. She will give birth on a warm night in the middle of the summer. The child's father will be a fair skinned man who works as an electrician. The people know this story.

    400 years later there is a cult who believes a man, Phillip Pedro, is a hero among the people. He can save them from their suffering. They come together to write about him. His story? He was born in Jamaica. His mother had dark hair. He was born at 3am in July. His father worked as an electrician.

    Now today, a couple thousand years later, we read both stories. Wow!!! How did they know? It must have been him. There isn't any other explanation. There isn't any way they were aware of the details of the hero, the details that had been passed down for generations and then wrote their own book to match those details. I mean, that just wouldn't be possible.

    It appears you are trying to use the Bible to prove the Bible. That just doesn't cut the mustard for any halfway serious conversation of the validity of Biblical accounts and certainly not as proof for the existence of God.

  2. #62
    Over 1500 post club Vaquero45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,616
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 138 Times in 129 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    348077
    Quote Originally Posted by Dena View Post
    Why is it irrational?



    It is not impossible that god/s do not exist. Therefore, that is not evidence. All you provided here was some circular logic. This won't convince anyone.
    Dena I edited my post #59 in this thread and added a much more easily accessible article on explaining what Guysmiley said. (It's up a page, so you might have missed my edit )
    Marge: "Aren't you going to give him the last rites?"
    Rev. Lovejoy: "That's Catholic, Marge - you might as well ask me to do a voodoo dance."



    "Oh bother" said Pooh, as he chambered the next round.

    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. - Benjamin Franklin

  3. #63
    Over 5000 post club WizardofOz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5,356
    Thanks
    2,148
    Thanked 2,603 Times in 1,452 Posts

    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    1380201
    Quote Originally Posted by Son of Jack View Post
    The fact that there something at all is kind of working against your argument.
    He has an argument? Cynics and naysayers always have so much trouble making those.

    They like to assert what isn't but rarely want to speak of what they assert is.
    “To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

    ― Theodore Roosevelt

    Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem

  4. #64
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    2,936
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 97 Times in 90 Posts

    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    1. The real distinction between existence and essence in all creatures necessitates the existence of a God for whom existence and essence are the same, a God who is the very cause of existence in creatures.

    2. The essential multiplicity of every creature necessitates the existence of an absolutely unitary cause.

    And...you get the idea.

  5. #65
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    970
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    The Incarnation
    and

    The Resurrection

  6. #66
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    970
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts

    Blog Entries
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by xAvarice View Post
    This is a great question too, although I think it strays towards evidentialist Christianity... I suppose you have to seek it at some point, eh?

    I thought the whole point of faith was having no evidence or certainty, or the evidence was revelation or influence from God?

    If I were Christian the best way for me to defend it would be to say that all the evidence is personal and subjective.
    Some do say that. Here is what the Catholic Church says:


    II. WAYS OF COMING TO KNOW GOD

    31 Created in God's image and called to know and love him, the person who seeks God discovers certain ways of coming to know him. These are also called proofs for the existence of God, not in the sense of proofs in the natural sciences, but rather in the sense of "converging and convincing arguments", which allow us to attain certainty about the truth. These "ways" of approaching God from creation have a twofold point of departure: the physical world, and the human person.

    32 The world: starting from movement, becoming, contingency, and the world's order and beauty, one can come to a knowledge of God as the origin and the end of the universe.

    As St. Paul says of the Gentiles: For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made.7

    And St. Augustine issues this challenge: Question the beauty of the earth, question the beauty of the sea, question the beauty of the air distending and diffusing itself, question the beauty of the sky. . . question all these realities. All respond: "See, we are beautiful." Their beauty is a profession [confessio]. These beauties are subject to change. Who made them if not the Beautiful One [Pulcher] who is not subject to change?8

    33 The human person: with his openness to truth and beauty, his sense of moral goodness, his freedom and the voice of his conscience, with his longings for the infinite and for happiness, man questions himself about God's existence. In all this he discerns signs of his spiritual soul. The soul, the "seed of eternity we bear in ourselves, irreducible to the merely material",9 can have its origin only in God.

    34 The world, and man, attest that they contain within themselves neither their first principle nor their final end, but rather that they participate in Being itself, which alone is without origin or end. Thus, in different ways, man can come to know that there exists a reality which is the first cause and final end of all things, a reality "that everyone calls God".10

    35 Man's faculties make him capable of coming to a knowledge of the existence of a personal God. But for man to be able to enter into real intimacy with him, God willed both to reveal himself to man and to give him the grace of being able to welcome this revelation in faith. The proofs of God's existence, however, can predispose one to faith and help one to see that faith is not opposed to reason.


    -Catechism of the Catholic Church


  7. #67
    Journeyman StanJ53's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    215
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    81
    Life
    Giraffe
    eyeball

    just a few out of millions!


    But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect. 1 Peter 3:15 (NIV)
    Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15 (NIV)
    For this very reason, make every effort by your faith to produce virtue, by virtue knowledge, 6 by knowledge self-control, by self-control steadfastness, by steadfastness godliness, 7 by godliness brotherly affection, and by brotherly affection love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will make you effective and productive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:5-8 (NIV)

  8. #68
    Over 6000 post club Aimiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    6,516
    Thanks
    367
    Thanked 422 Times in 310 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    117556
    Quote Originally Posted by Dena View Post
    It appears you are trying to use the Bible to prove the Bible. That just doesn't cut the mustard for any halfway serious conversation of the validity of Biblical accounts and certainly not as proof for the existence of God.
    That is somewhat the thesis Dr. Simon Greenleaf attempted to make the most use of when he set out to use the evidence found in The Gospels to disprove Jesus. He was one of the world's foremost authorities on judiciary evidence, one of the founding professors of the Harvard Law School and during his research into the evidence of The Holy Scriptures came to the conclusion that not only do we have more evidence of Jesus having lived, died and rose from the dead but he also came to believe in Him as Saviour and Lord. His book, "Testimony of the Evangelists," is rather inexpensive on Amazon. It's a very lengthy book. You should at least read the summary of it found here...

    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...greenleaf.html

    The most convincing argument that I read was the part where he described how the apostles spoke of themselves as failures and didn't use glowing words about themselves, as most any other author would do to give himself credibility. This he took as evidence of their sincerity.
    "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

    If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

  9. #69
    Over 5000 post club quip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    5,776
    Thanks
    693
    Thanked 1,174 Times in 882 Posts

    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    744593
    [QUOTE=Nick M;3448916]A rock can not create it self out of nothing. But a supreme being can.

    This rocket is nowhere near as complex as the earth. Did it get here by magic, or did a creator (engineering team) create it?



    Nick, can you tell me why it's so obvious that this rocket was built by man?

  10. #70
    Journeyman
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    scarborough
    Posts
    62
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    8685
    the fine tuning of the universe and our planet,how atoms work etc.It then occured to me that there was something behind this.

  11. #71
    Over 5000 post club quip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    5,776
    Thanks
    693
    Thanked 1,174 Times in 882 Posts

    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    744593
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditio View Post
    1. The real distinction between existence and essence in all creatures necessitates the existence of a God for whom existence and essence are the same, a God who is the very cause of existence in creatures.

    2. The essential multiplicity of every creature necessitates the existence of an absolutely unitary cause.

    And...you get the idea.
    And praytell what essence may that be....you may speculate and apply spurious intuitions yet, you simply don't know! Wholly unlike the existing rocket above...but that won't deter Nick!

  12. #72
    Over 4000 post club IMJerusha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Appalachian foothills of Ohio
    Posts
    4,184
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 93 Times in 72 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    101134


    This does it for me!
    I AM the pie lady!!

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  13. #73
    TOL Legend Lon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    9,813
    Thanks
    2,753
    Thanked 4,783 Times in 2,865 Posts

    Mentioned
    87 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    2147736
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post

    toldailytopic: In your opinion what are some of the most convincing peices of evidence that God exists?

    Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.

    John 1:9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.
    10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him.
    11 He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him.
    12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, the gave the right to become children of God,
    13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
    14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.


    Romans1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to [all people], because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So [all people] are without excuse.
    Jesus, God's Word, is foremost for me. I believe He has made Himself clearly seen.
    My New Years Resolution: 1 Peter 3:15
    Omniscient without man's qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
    Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
    Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
    No possible limitation Isaiah 40:25 Joshua 24:15
    Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

    Is Calvinism okay? Yep

    Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

    1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. Titus 3:10 Ephesians 4:29-32; 5:11

    Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."

  14. #74
    Over 1000 post club Buzzword's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,284
    Thanks
    51
    Thanked 164 Times in 133 Posts

    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    116875
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    I don't believe in the empirical approach, so I'd say the only convincing evidence for any adherent is found in the experience of God. Before that it's either a gamble or utility or both.
    This.

    All I am sure of are my own experiences, especially the profound changes which have occurred in my personality since my wife and I have been together.

    I can interpret the changes (from selfish to selfless) as having a variety of causes, from "I really haven't changed, I'm just being manipulative" to "divine workings to bring about such a drastic reversal in my previous thought process and behavior".

    I choose the latter (in addition to giving my amazing wife credit), partially because I'm optimistic, but mostly because it makes me work harder daily to maintain a selfless attitude and behavior.
    God set me on this path, but I must choose to remain on it.

    All I can offer others is my personal experience, and what I have gained from it, and trust that God will reach them.
    I strive to always act in love toward others, especially those who have doubts or outright animosity toward religion or spirituality.

    Attempting to logic-bomb someone into a conversion just leaves emotional shrapnel and alienating wounds.

    I still consider "I wish there were more Christians like you" the greatest compliment I have ever received.
    “In many ways the evidence of our faith is found in our ability to control our tongue (or our keyboard)."
    -Adam Hamilton

    “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”
    -Ralph Waldo Emerson

  15. #75
    Journeyman Lost Comet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    94
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Blog Entries
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    1361
    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for May 9th, 2013 05:00 AM


    toldailytopic: In your opinion what are some of the most convincing peices of evidence that God exists?






    Take the topic above and run with it! Slice it, dice it, give us your general thoughts about it. Everyday there will be a new TOL Topic of the Day.
    If you want to make suggestions for the Topic of the Day send a Tweet to @toldailytopic or @theologyonline or send it to us via Facebook.
    My existence and felt relationship with the Whole.

    What more do I need?
    “Behind the barricades of pre-established structures, the foxes of the intellect may engage in clever reasoning, but the lion of Being continues to roar outside the gate.” ~ Tarthang Tulku

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us