User Tag List

Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 456789 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 130

Thread: toldailytopic: Generally speaking does the Islamic religion encourage or discourage t

  1. #91
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    637
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
    Can you quote the passages where it does so?

    Can you quote the passages where it does so?

    Can you quote the passages where it does so?

    Didn't think so.
    I also answer my own questions before people can respond, it's the most reliable path to truth.

  2. #92
    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    21,063
    Thanks
    457
    Thanked 1,397 Times in 1,177 Posts

    Blog Entries
    10
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    873243
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulla Sadra View Post
    How did you acquire sureness of the whole History of Islam ?
    you don't need the whole history

    you just need to look at all the wars that have involved Islam

    have you looked at them?
    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

  3. #93
    Journeyman Mulla Sadra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Iraq
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    look at all the wars that have involved Islam
    So it is a warfare history (not WHOLE history, I am going to let that go for you).

    So you are sure of the WHOLE warfare history of Islam ? (look at bolded)
    in houses which Allah has ordered to be raised and that His name be mentioned therein; exalting Him within them in the morning and the evenings

  4. #94
    TOL Legend chrysostom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    21,063
    Thanks
    457
    Thanked 1,397 Times in 1,177 Posts

    Blog Entries
    10
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    873243
    I may have missed a few
    but
    that is not important

    we have enough of them to see the trouble Islam has caused
    a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:

  5. #95
    Journeyman Mulla Sadra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Iraq
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    I may have missed a few
    but
    that is not important

    we have enough of them to see the trouble Islam has caused
    Please, Don't change your answers too much, I don't like to do conclusion on an answer you don't mean (I don't want to be unjust with you).

    How Battles you have read of relate to Islam ?
    in houses which Allah has ordered to be raised and that His name be mentioned therein; exalting Him within them in the morning and the evenings

  6. #96
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Within a whisper of rivers...
    Posts
    21,045
    Thanks
    3,923
    Thanked 8,441 Times in 4,930 Posts

    Blog Entries
    15
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147840
    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    you don't need the whole history

    you just need to look at all the wars that have involved Islam

    have you looked at them?
    You mean like the Crusades?

    What about the Christian 30 Years War that decimated the population of Europe like a plague? It's not the faith, but certain adherents in certain concentrations.

    Again, do the math. It isn't hard, only inconvenient for you.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







  7. #97
    Journeyman Mulla Sadra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Iraq
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    You mean like the Crusades?

    What about the Christian 30 Years War that decimated the population of Europe like a plague? It's not the faith, but certain adherents in certain concentrations.

    Again, do the math. It isn't hard, only inconvenient for you.
    Wait ..........

    He might have some right within .
    in houses which Allah has ordered to be raised and that His name be mentioned therein; exalting Him within them in the morning and the evenings

  8. #98
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    637
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    You mean like the Crusades?

    What about the Christian 30 Years War that decimated the population of Europe like a plague? It's not the faith, but certain adherents in certain concentrations.

    Again, do the math. It isn't hard, only inconvenient for you.
    But if they do not share the same God as you (since both can't be true), then their religion only serves as an excuse waiting for anyone to oppress and to fleece.

    If their religion doesn't grant any supernatural morality or benefit - then what purpose does it truly have or advantage over any other book?

  9. #99
    Journeyman moparguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    153
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    96192
    Yes, the quran, hadith, sira, and sunnah all encourage jihad by the sword.

    This is even more obvious when you learn of naskh/abrogation and learn which verses came last and abrogated the most earlier verses.

    The hadiths, sunnah, and sira merely serve to nail the coffin shut on the topic.

    The bare bones of the pro-terrorist view of the islamic teachings, as I understand it, springs from the fact that in the holy texts of islam, EVERYONE is born as a muslim - so those who are not currently muslims have apostatized, and apostates under sharia can never be considered innocents, so the death of non-muslims is perfectly ok.

  10. #100
    Journeyman Mulla Sadra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Iraq
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by moparguy View Post
    Yes, the quran, hadith, sira, and sunnah all encourage jihad by the sword.

    This is even more obvious when you learn of naskh/abrogation and learn which verses came last and abrogated the most earlier verses.

    The hadiths, sunnah, and sira merely serve to nail the coffin shut on the topic.

    The bare bones of the pro-terrorist view of the islamic teachings, as I understand it, springs from the fact that in the holy texts of islam, EVERYONE is born as a muslim - so those who are not currently muslims have apostatized, and apostates under sharia can never be considered innocents, so the death of non-muslims is perfectly ok.
    1- Naskh actually deleted some of the War verses not visa-versa.
    2-You are making a loud fallacy of mixing "Islam" as supplication to God, and "Islam" as a religion.
    3- BTW, Sira if not authenticated by Hadeeth is not a proof in Islamic Traditional Sciences, to separate them is one of the known mis-understandings of those who share their hatred of Islam.
    in houses which Allah has ordered to be raised and that His name be mentioned therein; exalting Him within them in the morning and the evenings

  11. #101
    Journeyman moparguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    153
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    96192
    Quote Originally Posted by Mulla Sadra View Post
    1- Naskh actually deleted some of the War verses not visa-versa.
    What of 9:6 and 9:29?

    2-You are making a loud fallacy of mixing "Islam" as supplication to God, and "Islam" as a religion.
    I don't see how I could have, considering that I didn't define "islam."

    3- BTW, Sira if not authenticated by Hadeeth is not a proof in Islamic Traditional Sciences, to separate them is one of the known mis-understandings of those who share their hatred of Islam.
    I didn't claim that sira that are un-corroborated by bukhari/muslim/quran are authoritative. I am aware that there are sources that have more or less authority.

    I was simply listing all of the sources in Islam that I knew of.

    I gather it is the quran at the top, than bukhari, than muslim... who comes after that I have no idea.

  12. #102
    Journeyman moparguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    153
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    96192
    what the ... double post.

  13. #103
    Journeyman Mulla Sadra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Iraq
    Posts
    226
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Rep Power
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by moparguy View Post
    What of 9:6 and 9:29?



    I don't see how I could have, considering that I didn't define "islam."



    I didn't claim that sira that are un-corroborated by bukhari/muslim/quran are authoritative. I am aware that there are sources that have more or less authority.

    I was simply listing all of the sources in Islam that I knew of.

    I gather it is the quran at the top, than bukhari, than muslim... who comes after that I have no idea.
    1- You know that if the verse is before or after in the Uthamani Quran, doesn't mean anything to its timeline surely. (it might or mightn't)

    Also, Naskh is in an exact law, and not in whole state, means if the verse is in the timeline of War, it doesn't do "Naskh" for the other verse, it just mean it is the law when we are in War, and the verse when not in War is the law to be used when we aren't.


    The verses you talked about :

    9:6
    And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.

    9:29
    Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

    ------------------------------------------

    Both verses are in the same time (during the first war with polytheists), so there's no kind of "Naskh" whatsoever.

    The first means : if someone from your enemy DURING WAR came to seek peace in your land, then treat him well, but if he doesn't become part of your religion (country), then sent him out of the country to a place you are sure he's unharmed in from those whom he sought peace from.
    Hear Words of God might be 10 days, or 10 centuries, it is more to be identified by the one who came to seek peace.
    Means, Don't allow war-combatant enemies who come to your country in peace live permanently in your country. (So it is a legislation of POWs and defects, you are veteran, you should know about this).
    Note that the prophet added that, if a POW knows how to read and write, then he can teach that to 10 of the Muslims and then he can be allowed to stay or go wherever he wants.

    [If a non-muslim come to Country of Islam, not during a war with his country, he's allowed to stay, but in the terms that he accept Sharia Laws like any other muslim in the country of Islam, just like what is happening to American companies in Saudi Arabia]

    The second : is an order of the start of the first War with polytheists after they broke the treaty in attacking one of the tribes that allied the prophet, Check the context.

    Note : Naskh happened for instance, that Muslims weren't allowed to marry from people of scripture during war, but then it was allowed, not in the name of "No War" but in the name of "Always", because it was about Personal rights not Governmental laws, get it ?

    2- What would you say if I told you that Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim aren't fully right source to go to for me and other 350 million shia muslim (and God knows how much Sunni).

    in houses which Allah has ordered to be raised and that His name be mentioned therein; exalting Him within them in the morning and the evenings

  14. #104
    Toxic Adaptive Ninja Turtle Stripe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Taipei, Taiwan
    Posts
    19,143
    Thanks
    544
    Thanked 13,017 Times in 9,145 Posts

    Blog Entries
    2
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)


    Rep Power
    2147854
    Quote Originally Posted by xAvarice View Post
    I also answer my own questions before people can respond, it's the most reliable path to truth.
    See?
    Where is the evidence for a global flood?
    E≈mc2
    "the best maths don't need no stinkin' numbers"

    "The waters under the 'expanse' were under the crust."
    -Bob B.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Stripe For Your Post:

    Tambora (October 12th, 2017)

  16. #105
    Journeyman StanJ53's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    215
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Rep Power
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by moparguy View Post
    The bare bones of the pro-terrorist view of the islamic teachings, as I understand it, springs from the fact that in the holy texts of islam, EVERYONE is born as a muslim - so those who are not currently muslims have apostatized, and apostates under sharia can never be considered innocents, so the death of non-muslims is perfectly ok.


    Yes I have read that Islam considers ALL people born as Muslim and why they are so adamant about their Shahadah.

    It is a belief of course that ONLY exists with Islam. Christianity, Judaism, and Catholicism all teach different infant dedication but none of them believe a child is born into their faith, only that sooner or later they are baptized into their faith.


    But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect. 1 Peter 3:15 (NIV)
    Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 2 Tim 2:15 (NIV)
    For this very reason, make every effort by your faith to produce virtue, by virtue knowledge, 6 by knowledge self-control, by self-control steadfastness, by steadfastness godliness, 7 by godliness brotherly affection, and by brotherly affection love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will make you effective and productive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:5-8 (NIV)

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
Since 1997 TheologyOnline (TOL) has been one of the most popular theology forums on the internet. On TOL we encourage spirited conversation about religion, politics, and just about everything else.

follow us