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Thread: toldailytopic: Which requires the greater faith, atheism or theism?

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    . Eeset's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    So why are you incapable of placing an age on when you knew outside of *always*?
    Always means always. What's not to understand about that. You want a specific age? OK, at birth. Now you will probably say I am lying because people don't remember their own birth. Call me a liar but always means always. Surely we can debate each person's earliest memories but to what avail?

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    Over 6000 post club PureX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
    You seem to not understand the word "always". You want me to place a date on my earliest memories? I have no idea how to do that accurately. No one taught me that God exists. No one needed to. You may scoff at what I am telling you but I was honestly putting forth a simple fact.
    I don't doubt you. I had some sort of a god-concept from as far back as I can remember as well. But that's understandable having been raised in a religious household, I suppose.

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    Censorship is the height of vanity Rusha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
    Always means always. What's not to understand about that.
    Have you *always* existed? When did you not *always* exist? What's not to understand about this question?

    You want a specific age?


    OK, at birth.
    Cool. What else do you remember from birth? Did you mother cry from joy? Were you shocked at how cold the room was when you were delivered? Were you angry at the doctor and nurses working over you to make sure your color and breathing was fine? When the doctor slapped you on the rear (to make you cry), was your first impulse to slap him back?

    Now you will probably say I am lying because people don't remember their own birth. Call me a liar but always means always. Surely we can debate each person's earliest memories but to what avail?
    I *try* to avoid calling others liars ... let's just say I believe you made the *claim* prior to really thinking it through.
    TRUST
    is a fragile thing.

    Easy to break, Easy to lose
    and one of the hardest things to
    ever get back.








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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    I *try* to avoid calling others liars ... let's just say I believe you made the *claim* prior to really thinking it through.
    With all due respect Rusha why would I have to think through something I have always known. I am getting the impression that you want to argue what I know because you have no such knowledge. Why should that bother you? Shirley it is not important that everyone should know the same things.

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    TOL Legend john w's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xAvarice View Post
    I do not have any faith that their isn't a God (although I can see why you think I should seeing the punishments and charges that have been drummed up) I live in a world where Zeus, Yahweh or Jehovah haven't contacted me, and I don't trust the hallucinations of my fellow brother and sister.

    Of course, Christians shouldn't have a problem with atheism due to the fact that a lot of their arguments state that god is beyond the material realm and quite hard to perceive, or so I've heard.

    If God had contacted me, it'd take greater faith to be atheist... but currently it takes none. I believe there isn't a god due to the lack of evidence I personally see, that's not my problem.
    So, George Washington did not exist?
    Saint John W

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    Titan of the Wasatch Sherman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knight View Post
    The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for April 9th, 2013 05:00 AM


    toldailytopic: Which requires the greater faith, atheism or theism?
    Atheism. Athiesm requires that you believe that the universe exists without a God and that life evolved on its own without an intelligence behind it. It takes a great leap of faith to believe that something like the eye or the brain could evolve on its own.

    I used to intertain agnosticism during the years I hung with the intellectual crowd--mainly because it was fashionable among the intellectual set. I didn't want to be the oddball among the gifted talented students. It required more faith on my part to hold to the agnostic/atheist world view. I didn't have enough faith, so I abandoned my flirtation with atheisim.


    It is much easier to believe the account in the Bible--In the beginning God created.

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    Censorship is the height of vanity Rusha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
    With all due respect Rusha why would I have to think through something I have always known.
    You don't *have* to do anything.

    I am getting the impression that you want to argue what I know because you have no such knowledge.
    While I don't believe the *claim* you made, there is no reason to argue about it. You are free to claim whatever you will.

    Why should that bother you?
    Bother, no.

    Shirley it is not important that everyone should know the same things.
    So knowing what you claim to know since birth is not really important to you? Okay.
    TRUST
    is a fragile thing.

    Easy to break, Easy to lose
    and one of the hardest things to
    ever get back.








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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    So knowing what you claim to know since birth is not really important to you? Okay.
    Actually you are incorrect. But it seems to concern you a great deal. That I find strange.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bybee View Post
    I see it differently.
    Hello bybee,
    That's okay ... but I see it that the atheists are just doing what comes naturally.

    Now, I do think that they perhaps have more difficulty explaining why they believe the way they do than Christians. After all, the intricacy of creation reveals that there is a creator.

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    Censorship is the height of vanity Rusha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
    Actually you are incorrect..
    About the claim you made of knowing there was a creator since BIRTH?
    TRUST
    is a fragile thing.

    Easy to break, Easy to lose
    and one of the hardest things to
    ever get back.








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    Over 1000 post club Quincy's Avatar
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    I actully think Sky and Eeset have a point. Some of us just know what we believe. I've never believed in a personal god, I've thought at times there was a creator of some sort, based purely on logic but I never thought that the creator has personal relationships with humans. To me, when people would tell me the creator incarnated himself to a virgin and come to be a savior to all, I chalked that one up to being in the realm of Santa Claus. And I was the cause of many a classmate, as a child, going home to confront their parents about the Santa lie .
    I'm not a sinner, or preacher, all I have is slight of hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    About the claim you made of knowing there was a creator since BIRTH?
    Fact check. I never used the term creator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xAvarice View Post
    I also collect non-sequiturs.
    Well, isn't that special??

    Perhaps you should take a moment to consider her claim. Isn't it true that there are some things that you don't have to teach children? Things that they just know?

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    There is some evidence for a belief gene. I think this is why Esset and others have always believed while others, perhaps like Rusha have not.

    I struggle with belief. I have never found it easy. I can get to places where God gives me comfort. But I need to stay out of the weeds and arguments over finer details. Thus my quote from Proverbs in my signature.

    Faith has multiple meanings. In some instances it is straight belief. At this level the effort between atheism and theism are the same.
    But the full meaning of faith in religion goes way beyond atheism. It doesn't even make sense in atheism and I think that argument between a theist and atheist is two people talking past each other.
    Y ou probably have heard faith is like trusting your car will start in the morning and other comparisons. This is not religious faith. It is simple expectation. Faith however is demonstrated in the bible with Job and also with Jesus at Gethsemane. It is trusting God even when there is no evidence and worse contrary evidence. Trusting God even when every thing is going contrary to what you are saying. Thankfully it is not like this always, but I expect some Christians here have experienced those times.
    I don't believe Atheists have any relatable experience of this type of faith.

    I wish belief and faith were never used so interchangeably. It would certainly reduce quite a number of arguments.

    Faith in theism is far more challenging. Theism requires more of you. If not then imho it is not faith. It is probably just politics.

    Theism is a relationship to a personal God. Atheism is not a relationship with anyone. Relationships are not easy.
    Last edited by exminister; April 9th, 2013 at 07:16 PM. Reason: Added last sentence
    Proverbs 17:19 Whoever loves a quarrel loves sin

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    Over 1000 post club Dena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inzl Kett View Post
    [COLOR=DarkGreen]Atheism. Athiesm requires that you believe that the universe exists without a God and that life evolved on its own without an intelligence behind it. It takes a great leap of faith to believe that something like the eye or the brain could evolve on its own.
    Not when you study those things.

    My answer is theism. It takes a tremendous amount of faith for some and very little for others but on the whole, I think it wins in the "who has more faith" game.

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