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Thread: toldailytopic: Which requires the greater faith, atheism or theism?

  1. #16
    Over 6000 post club PureX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    I think there's something built into us - it's a cliché, I know, but that idea of a God-shaped hole that keeps us always searching for Him.
    I think that "God-shaped hole" is our endless quest to know the unknown. We humans survive and thrive by our ability to understand and control our environment, rather than by our speed, or power, or stealth, etc., so that the unknown presents a big threat to us. And we fear it deeply. That fear of the unknown looms so large for us that it becomes an "all-powerful entity": one which we cannot understand and control.

    Religions are at their most base level a method of imagining that we have a way of controlling that "entity". It's the 'virgins in the volcano' phenomena. Having 'personified' that all-powerful unknown into an 'entity', we imagine that if we can somehow appease it, maybe it will not cause us harm.

    This is the root of human superstition, and is where most religions begin. From that, however, it can be advanced to a much more sophisticated conceptual level that is no longer based in fear and superstition, but on our real relationship with ourselves, each other, and the world around us.
    Quote Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
    Belief can be simple - and yet, doubt can really complicate it. There are times when I've thought, "what if this is all nothing, just a human construct to make sense of the world?" and it's a scary thought. It's faith that carries me through those times. Reason can only take us so far. I think sometimes the reasoning is where all the work is at, and we work so hard at it - while faith is a gift.
    It is both "just a human construct" and something far more. Because human constructs are themselves much more than we realize.

    Consider this: the universe 'thinks' through us. It becomes aware of itself, through us. It loves, through us. This is how amazing, wonderful, and powerful those "human constructs" are. Through us, the universe contemplates it's own creation, and it's own Creator. Wow!

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    Over 4000 post club alwight's Avatar
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    As an atheist, as the cliché goes, I only disbelieve in one more god than most theists here do, no faith is required for any of them. I simply live this life as though there are no gods, even if I'm wrong which I could be. However I think that Darwinian evolution has probably arranged things so that a tendency to have a godly faith more often than not exists in humans. Theistic faith is probably nothing more than an evolutionary naturally selected device.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ps82 View Post
    I think humanity (especially since God allowed us to have freewill) has a natural inclination to reject God rather than to accept him; therefore, I think it takes less faith to be an atheist, because all they have to do is just be themselves and think in human ways.

    In order to perceive God, LORD, and savior it takes divine enlightenment to take us beyond human contemplations into enlightenment, and then we must trust in the revelation. That's what faith is.
    And do all the enlightened ones then receive the very same message?
    Or instead do they not perceive their very own individual and often conflicting "enlightenment", with each other, each with their own differing version of faith and/or religion?

  3. #18
    . Eeset's Avatar
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    I have never regarded my relationship with God to be a matter of faith. I was born this way.

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    Censorship is the height of vanity Rusha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
    I have never regarded my relationship with God to be a matter of faith. I was born this way.
    So what age did you realize your God existed? Three mos. old? Six months old? One/three/five/ten/fifteen years old?
    TRUST
    is a fragile thing.

    Easy to break, Easy to lose
    and one of the hardest things to
    ever get back.








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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    So what age did you realize your God existed? Three mos. old? Six months old? One/three/five/ten/fifteen years old?
    Always.

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    I do not have any faith that their isn't a God (although I can see why you think I should seeing the punishments and charges that have been drummed up) I live in a world where Zeus, Yahweh or Jehovah haven't contacted me, and I don't trust the hallucinations of my fellow brother and sister.

    Of course, Christians shouldn't have a problem with atheism due to the fact that a lot of their arguments state that god is beyond the material realm and quite hard to perceive, or so I've heard.

    If God had contacted me, it'd take greater faith to be atheist... but currently it takes none. I believe there isn't a god due to the lack of evidence I personally see, that's not my problem.

  7. #22
    Censorship is the height of vanity Rusha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
    Always.
    Explain ...

    Did you take your bottle or rattle and point it to the sky as a way of confirming you knew your God existed?

    At the age of 9 months, did you toddle down the hallway, find the family Bible and confirm that you understood it? What did you say?

    I am asking these questions because I do NOT for a moment believe that anyone is born as a believer or nonbeliever. We all develop our beliefs as our mentality and understanding progresses.

    The first time the subject of God came about was when I asked my mother when I was five ... "mom, how did we all get here?"

    When told God created the first human beings, my question was "Who is God? Who created God? What is God? How do you know He exists?"

    Feel free to explain how *you* would answer these questions.

    Frankly, I think it is rather silly to make suggest that infants, toddlers and small children have this knowledge.
    TRUST
    is a fragile thing.

    Easy to break, Easy to lose
    and one of the hardest things to
    ever get back.








  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PureX View Post
    I think that "God-shaped hole" is our endless quest to know the unknown. We humans survive and thrive by our ability to understand and control our environment, rather than by our speed, or power, or stealth, etc., so that the unknown presents a big threat to us. And we fear it deeply. That fear of the unknown looms so large for us that it becomes an "all-powerful entity": one which we cannot understand and control.

    Religions are at their most base level a method of imagining that we have a way of controlling that "entity". It's the 'virgins in the volcano' phenomena. Having 'personified' that all-powerful unknown into an 'entity', we imagine that if we can somehow appease it, maybe it will not cause us harm.
    I was going to jump in and say the same thing until the third paragraph where you stole the words from my mouth, fine then - have it your way, tea party on your lonesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    I am asking these questions because I do NOT for a moment believe that anyone is born as a believer or nonbeliever. We all develop our beliefs as our mentality and understanding progresses.
    I only very slightly disagree, I think an infant has the ability to imagine anything as true, they know no bounds. You cannot teach a side of metaphysics to a 2 year old, nor should you try.

    But you're right, a child cannot be born with a specific impulse towards rejecting a specific god or accepting them.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    Explain ...

    Did you take your bottle or rattle and point it to the sky as a way of confirming you knew your God existed?

    At the age of 9 months, did you toddle down the hallway, find the family Bible and confirm that you understood it? What did you say?

    I am asking these questions because I do NOT for a moment believe that anyone is born as a believer or nonbeliever. We all develop our beliefs as our mentality and understanding progresses.

    The first time the subject of God came about was when I asked my mother when I was five ... "mom, how did we all get here?"

    When told God created the first human beings, my question was "Who is God? Who created God? What is God? How do you know He exists?"

    Feel free to explain how *you* would answer this question.

    Frankly, I think it is rather silly to make the suggest infants, toddlers and small children have this knowledge.
    You seem to not understand the word "always". You want me to place a date on my earliest memories? I have no idea how to do that accurately. No one taught me that God exists. No one needed to. You may scoff at what I am telling you but I was honestly putting forth a simple fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
    You seem to not understand the word "always". You want me to place a date on my earliest memories? I have no idea how to do that accurately. No one taught me that God exists. No one needed to. You may scoff at what I am telling you but I was honestly putting forth a simple fact.
    How did you know it was the Christian god? Cross-referencing ability didn't come to me at 3.

  11. #26
    Censorship is the height of vanity Rusha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
    You seem to not understand the word "always".
    Actually I understand the word just fine.

    You want me to place a date on my earliest memories?
    Being that your *suggestion* insinuates that from the time we come into this world, we all KNOW that your God exists, that request is not unreasonable.

    I have no idea how to do that accurately. No one taught me that God exists. No one needed to. You may scoff at what I am telling you but I was honestly putting forth a simple fact.
    I don't believe it. It is not normal to question our existence and the beginning of everything around us.
    TRUST
    is a fragile thing.

    Easy to break, Easy to lose
    and one of the hardest things to
    ever get back.








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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
    I have never regarded my relationship with God to be a matter of faith. I was born this way.
    Me too. It's as if I looked up at the sky one day and said "look what God made". I can not remember a time when I did not associate the God of the Bible as the one who created everything.

    That was the beginning of faith. How I got it I don't know but I thank God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusha View Post
    Being that your *suggestion* insinuates that from the time we come into this world, we all KNOW that your God exists, that request is not unreasonable.
    Rusha I made no such insinuation. I simply stated what is true for me. What is true for you or anyone else is actually of little concern to me. And that is probably why I sometimes run afoul with certain "believers" when I say things they consider heresy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sky. View Post
    Me too. It's as if I looked up at the sky one day and said "look what God made". I can not remember a time when I did not associate the God of the Bible as the one who created everything.

    That was the beginning of faith. How I got it I don't know but I thank God.
    I also collect non-sequiturs.

  15. #30
    Censorship is the height of vanity Rusha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eeset View Post
    Rusha I made no such insinuation. I simply stated what is true for me. What is true for you or anyone else is actually of little concern to me. And that is probably why I sometimes run afoul with certain "believers" when I say things they consider heresy.
    So why are you incapable of placing an age on when you knew outside of *always*?
    TRUST
    is a fragile thing.

    Easy to break, Easy to lose
    and one of the hardest things to
    ever get back.








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