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Thread: HOW ARE WE SAVED TODAY ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi , and in Rev 1:6 , there is the Greek word for KING/BASILEUS and see G935 !!

    PRIESTS/HIEREUS , G2409 !!

    Both words are in Rev 1:6 !!

    As far as Matt 25:32 , uses the Greek word NATIONS/ETHNOS !!

    As far as Rom 11 , goes , there are many Dispensationalists , that go every which way on Rom 11 !!

    How Rom 11:21-22 is believed !!

    Are we Grafted into an Olive Tree ??

    Or are BAPTIZO/PLACED into the Body of Christ , 1 Cor 12:13 ??

    I , OPT for 1 Cor 12:13 !!

    If you believe in GRAFTING you can not be Pre-mil , but A-mil !!

    dan p
    I see that our issues are hermeneutics. In Matthew 25:32 the term “nations” represents all the individual people living in the world. How do I know this? Because Jesus gives the reasons for their separations, starting with v35. The language is all personal. You visited, you gave me, you clothed me. These are personal acts of individuals not the acts of Governments. The government does not visit you in prison as a sign of a righteous attitude.

    In today’s world you are correct, there are many versions of dispensational theology. I happen to take six semester hours in college on the subject and have developed my own interpretation based on my own study. So for me to explain all this to you in so little space would not be practical. But what I will do to help bring you up to speed on hermeneutic principles for prophetic interpretation is recommend a book called “The Interpretation of Prophecy” by Paul Lee Tan. I believe it is still available at Amazon.com.

    It is my view that I am both grafted into the olive tree and baptized into the body of Christ, because I do not believe God is running two different programs. God's program is one and includes both the Church and Israel as separate entities all parts of a single plan.

    Eschatology is another one of those topics that requires a great deal of study and background to get it right and then no one is really sure of that. Because of this, most people rely on their spiritual leadership who hopefully has had some training on this topic at seminary. As I have stated in my book: “There are no contradictions in Scripture. For biblical truth to be true it must agree with all other biblical truth.” And therefore, we must rely on the Holy Spirit to help us see that truth. God bless in your continuing pursuit of that truth.
    Last edited by rcetc; April 20th, 2013 at 07:22 AM. Reason: Spelling

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcetc View Post
    I see that our issues are hermeneutics. In Matthew 25:32 the term “nations” represents all the individual people living in the world. How do I know this? Because Jesus gives the reasons for their separations, starting with v35. The language is all personal. You visited, you gave me, you clothed me. These are personal acts of individuals not the acts of Governments. The government does not visit you in prison as a sign of a righteous attitude.

    In today’s world you are correct, there are many versions of dispensational theology. I happen to take six semester hours in college on the subject and have developed my own interpretation based on my own study. So for me to explain all this to you in so little space would not be practical. But what I will do to help bring you up to speed on hermeneutic principles for prophetic interpretation is recommend a book called “The Interpretation of Prophecy” by Paul Lee Tan. I believe it is still available at Amazon.com.

    It is my view that I am both grafted into the olive tree and baptized into the body of Christ, because I do not believe God is running two different programs. God's program is one and includes both the Church and Israel as separate entities all parts of a single plan.

    Eschatology is another one of those topics that requires a great deal of study and background to get it right and then no one is rely sure of that. Because of this, most people rely on their spiritual leadership who hopefully has had some training on this topic at seminary. As I have stated in my book: “There are no contradictions in Scripture. For biblical truth to be true it must agree with all other biblical truth.” And therefore, we must rely on the Holy Spirit to help us see that truth. God bless in your continuing pursuit of that truth.

    Hi , and lets just believe that in Rev 1:6 is correct , that Jews will be kings and Priest in the Millennium or what is called the 1000 reign of Christ !!

    In Matt 25:32 , Jesus gathers the Sheep and the Goats !!

    These are GENTILES , and the Sheep enter the 1000 year reign of Christ and the Goats , in verse 46 enter everlasting punishment !!

    The question then is " HOW ARE THESE GENTILES SAVED in the 1000 years ??

    Can they be saved ?

    They are left to there own devices ?

    What is the means of salvation in the Millennium ??

    Can they be LOST in the Millennium ?

    Rom 11:21-22 has defeated you !!

    This GRAFTING happens in the Millennium and NOT in the Dispensation of the Grace of God , which is called the Body of Christ !!

    Where is GRAFTING and the Body of Christ LINKED TOGETHER ??

    dan p
    Last edited by DAN P; April 13th, 2013 at 11:20 AM.

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    1. Salvation

    Salvation is indeed linked to one's 'heart'. And it does involve 'loving' one's neighbor.

    However loving one's neighbor means loving a fellow Christian. It does not mean loving everyone. Everyone is not one's neighbor. For a Christian one's neighbor is a fellow Christian. Christians are those who follow Jesus.

    This is so because: Jesus also instructed that those who follow him must 'let the dead bury their dead'. This is why the words are 'love thy neighbor' and not 'love everyone'. Those who follow Jesus are not called to love everyone. They are called to love only fellow Christians. The rest must be left to their own kind, i.e. the dead.

    To a disciple (i.e. one who is called) Jesus said follow me and let the dead bury their dead. This tells us that some people are called (to follow Jesus) and some are not called (to follow Jesus).

    This revelation tells us that only those who are not 'the dead' are called to follow Jesus. Those who are 'the dead' are not called to follow Jesus. Jesus instructed that those who are called must leave the dead under the charge of their own kind (i.e. let the dead bury their dead).

    According to Jesus' instructions, 'the dead' are dammed and forsaken by those who are called to follow Jesus.

    Those who are called to follow Jesus are not called to love 'the dead'. Therefore the instruction to love thy neighbor cannot and does not mean love everyone. It can only mean that those who are called to follow Jesus must love those others who are called to follow Jesus.

    2. Following Jesus

    Following Jesus is another misunderstood idea. Now we must follow Jesus through His Spirit which God sent into our hearts or spirit. This has nothing to do with any of the ideals and laws recorded in the written scriptures.

    In order to follow Jesus one's own heart must not be waxed gross. One's heart or spirit must be open because one has to receive direct, individualized and precise information and guidance from Jesus though one's own heart or spirit. This is where God sent Jesus' Spirit.

    This has nothing to do with the written scriptures. This has nothing to do with following the ideals and laws in the written scriptures. This does not have anything to do with going through any other human person for one's idea and guidance. That is the Old system.

    The New system is through the Spirit and this had nothing to do with the written scriptures and the law. This is how both Abraham and Paul were informed and guided. They were informed and guided directly by God through the Spirit.

    It is well known that through this form of direct Spiritual guidance and not the letter, Abraham was called by God to transgress the Ten Commandments which is the anchor of the letter (i.e. the written scriptures).

    Those under the Old system cannot be and are not Christians (they are not chosen). Only those under the New system are Christians (they are the chosen and they are few).

    When Christians (i.e. those in Christ) die they rise to be like angels in heaven. Angels are being without physical bodies. Jesus was our example of one in Christ. Therefore when Jesus died he rose to like an angel in heaven.

    However after Jesus' physically crucifixion and rise to heaven He returned in His Spirit. God sent Jesus back in His Spirit. God sent the Spirit of Jesus into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God and so differ in no way from Jesus as he was as a man on earth. Jesus confirmed that he had to go away physically by crucifixion so that the Spirit of Truth can come and bring All Truth. Jesus is the Truth, therefore the Spirit of Truth is Jesus' Spirit. God sent this Spirit back after Jesus rose to heaven. God sent, Jesus in His Spirit into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God. Then God through Paul confirmed that 'now the lord is that Spirit'.

    Additionally Christians are those with 'ears to hear' and 'eyes to see'. They are told to look not at thing that are physical (like Jesus in a physical body) for such thing are temporal. They are told to look at thing that are not seen (like Jesus in His Spirit).

    Only a few were expected to listen and accept this advise from Jesus. That is, only a few looked for Jesus' return in His Spirit. The very great majority still looked and continue to look forward for the return of Jesus in a physical body.

    Only those who looked for Jesus in His Spirit as discerned with their own heart and do not at all look forward for the return of Jesus in a physical body are the chosen few. Only they are the saved and chosen and they are a few. They are not the great masses (i.e. billions in what passes for Christianity). The billions in what passes for Christianity are still lost in and with, the idea of a physical Jesus, although it was made clear that now the lord is that Spirit of Jesus which God sent into the hearts of humans.
    Last edited by Gurucam; April 12th, 2013 at 10:30 AM.

  4. #64
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    In what manner did Jesus rise to heaven?

    He rose to heaven in the same way that we must know him now, i.e. in His Spirit.

    Jesus miraculously presented himself as rising to heaven in a physical body because he had to provide a physical sign to those who were not given by God to discern things that are not seen. In reality Jesus like all other Christians rose to be like an angel in heaven. That is, he rose without a physical body.

    When Christians (i.e. those in Christ) die they rise to be like angels in heaven. Angels are being without physical bodies. Jesus was our example of one in Christ. Therefore when Jesus died he rose to like an angel in heaven. Jesus (when he physically walked on earth) differed in no way from anyone else who was in Christ. Those in Christ differs in no way from Jesus as he was when he walked on earth. If Christians rise to like angels in heaven after death so did Jesus.

    Although Jesus was more than an average man, he was made a man (from a seed of Abraham) so as to live and suffer (death) as human do. As a man on earth Jesus was a Christian (i.e. he was one in Christ). Everything that happened to Jesus after death happens to everyone who is a Christian (i.e. every one who is in Christ). However one must believe and know this Truth in order to inherit this Truth. This includes rising after three days, to be like an angel in heaven. It can be no other way. It is stated clearly that those in Christ differ in no way from Jesus as he was, as a man on earth. Expect the same. Let no one sell you short of this expectation.

    However after Jesus' physically crucifixion and rise to heaven He returned to earth in His Spirit. Jesus was sent by God in this way especially to enter the hearts of those under the law. God sent Jesus back in His Spirit. God sent the Spirit of Jesus into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God and so differ in no way from Jesus as he was as a man on earth. Then God through Paul confirmed that 'now the lord is that Spirit'.

    Additionally Christians are those with 'ears to hear' and 'eyes to see'. They are told to look not at thing that are physical (like Jesus in a physical body) for such thing are temporal. They are told to look at thing that are not seen (like Jesus in His Spirit).

    Only a few were expected to listen and accept this advise from Jesus (i.e. many are called but few chosen). That is, only a few looked for Jesus' return in His Spirit. The very great majority still looked and continue to look forward for the return of Jesus in a physical body.

    Only those who looked for Jesus in His Spirit as discerned with their own heart and do not at all look forward for the return of Jesus in a physical body are the chosen few. Only they are the saved and chosen and they are a few. They are not the great masses (i.e. billions in what passes for Christianity). The billions in what passes for Christianity are still lost in and with, the idea of a physical Jesus, although it was made clear that now the lord is that Spirit of Jesus which God sent into the hearts of humans.
    Last edited by Gurucam; April 12th, 2013 at 10:43 AM.

  5. #65
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    Physical signs

    Jesus also confirmed that no more physical signs will be provided. His coming to earth in a physical body was his last physical sign. Now we must know him in His Spirit as Paul and Abraham discerned and knew Him. We are told clearly to look not at things that are seen (i.e. like Jesus physical body) such things are temporal. We are told to look at things that are not seen (like Jesus Spirit) for such things are eternal.

    Jesus' service and usefulness to children of God are only through His Spirit which we must discern through our own heart or spirit. Children of God are Christian. The physical Jesus cannot help anyone to become children of God (i.e. Christians).

    Children of God are led by this Spirit (of Jesus). God sent the Spirit of Jesus into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God. Children of God is another way to describe Christians.

    This is how one is led by the Spirit of Jesus. One must search one's own heart or spirit, in real time all the time. This is to discern in real time, all the time, precisely what this Spirit (of Jesus) has in mind for one to pray for say and do. Then one must be led in real time, all the time, into all of one's works by precisely what this Spirit has in mind for one to pray for say and do as discerned in this manner. One must obey what this Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to pray for, say and do, even if this Spirit requires one to transgress the Ten Commandments and the ideals and laws recorded in the written scriptures. Then one is saved and delivered. Then one is chosen and in Christ.

    Obeying the Spirit of Jesus enable one to do the will of God. Obeying the Spirit of Jesus unconditionally even of one has to transgress the Ten Commandments and the legal tenants of scriptures is the divine example and prescription left for us by God with Abraham. This is what the promise of the Spirit is all about.
    Last edited by Gurucam; April 12th, 2013 at 10:45 AM.

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    We are saved today in the same manner as humans were saved all through time. People were and are saved all through time by living in the same manner as original Adam and Jesus the man.

    Original Adam and Jesus as a man on earth were both led into all their works by unconditionally obeying precisely what the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth has in mind for them to pray for, say and do as discerned within their own hearts or spirits. The manner is described in post 65 above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurucam View Post
    1. Salvation

    Salvation is indeed linked to one's 'heart'. And it does involve 'loving' one's neighbor.

    However loving one's neighbor means loving a fellow Christian. It does not mean loving everyone. Everyone is not one's neighbor. For a Christian one's neighbor is a fellow Christian. Christians are those who follow Jesus.

    This is so because: Jesus also instructed that those who follow him must 'let the dead bury their dead'. This is why the words are 'love thy neighbor' and not 'love everyone'. Those who follow Jesus are not called to love everyone. They are called to love only fellow Christians. The rest must be left to their own kind, i.e. the dead.

    To a disciple (i.e. one who is called) Jesus said follow me and let the dead bury their dead. This tells us that some people are called (to follow Jesus) and some are not called (to follow Jesus).

    This revelation tells us that only those who are not 'the dead' are called to follow Jesus. Those who are 'the dead' are not called to follow Jesus. Jesus instructed that those who are called must leave the dead under the charge of their own kind (i.e. let the dead bury their dead).

    According to Jesus' instructions, 'the dead' are dammed and forsaken by those who are called to follow Jesus.

    Those who are called to follow Jesus are not called to love 'the dead'. Therefore the instruction to love thy neighbor cannot and does not mean love everyone. It can only mean that those who are called to follow Jesus must love those others who are called to follow Jesus.

    2. Following Jesus

    Following Jesus is another misunderstood idea. Now we must follow Jesus through His Spirit which God sent into our hearts or spirit. This has nothing to do with any of the ideals and laws recorded in the written scriptures.

    In order to follow Jesus one's own heart must not be waxed gross. One's heart or spirit must be open because one has to receive direct, individualized and precise information and guidance from Jesus though one's own heart or spirit. This is where God sent Jesus' Spirit.

    This has nothing to do with the written scriptures. This has nothing to do with following the ideals and laws in the written scriptures. This does not have anything to do with going through any other human person for one's idea and guidance. That is the Old system.

    The New system is through the Spirit and this had nothing to do with the written scriptures and the law. This is how both Abraham and Paul were informed and guided. They were informed and guided directly by God through the Spirit.

    It is well known that through this form of direct Spiritual guidance and not the letter, Abraham was called by God to transgress the Ten Commandments which is the anchor of the letter (i.e. the written scriptures).

    Those under the Old system cannot be and are not Christians (they are not chosen). Only those under the New system are Christians (they are the chosen and they are few).

    When Christians (i.e. those in Christ) die they rise to be like angels in heaven. Angels are being without physical bodies. Jesus was our example of one in Christ. Therefore when Jesus died he rose to like an angel in heaven.

    However after Jesus' physically crucifixion and rise to heaven He returned in His Spirit. God sent Jesus back in His Spirit. God sent the Spirit of Jesus into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God and so differ in no way from Jesus as he was as a man on earth. Jesus confirmed that he had to go away physically by crucifixion so that the Spirit of Truth can come and bring All Truth. Jesus is the Truth, therefore the Spirit of Truth is Jesus' Spirit. God sent this Spirit back after Jesus rose to heaven. God sent, Jesus in His Spirit into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God. Then God through Paul confirmed that 'now the lord is that Spirit'.

    Additionally Christians are those with 'ears to hear' and 'eyes to see'. They are told to look not at thing that are physical (like Jesus in a physical body) for such thing are temporal. They are told to look at thing that are not seen (like Jesus in His Spirit).

    Only a few were expected to listen and accept this advise from Jesus. That is, only a few looked for Jesus' return in His Spirit. The very great majority still looked and continue to look forward for the return of Jesus in a physical body.

    Only those who looked for Jesus in His Spirit as discerned with their own heart and do not at all look forward for the return of Jesus in a physical body are the chosen few. Only they are the saved and chosen and they are a few. They are not the great masses (i.e. billions in what passes for Christianity). The billions in what passes for Christianity are still lost in and with, the idea of a physical Jesus, although it was made clear that now the lord is that Spirit of Jesus which God sent into the hearts of humans.

    Hi , and I have doubts about you !!

    #1 , 1 Cor 11:1 says that we are " Be ye Imitators of Me ( Paul ) even as I ( AM ) of Christ " , so we follow Paul !!

    #2 , There were no CHRISTIANOS/CHRISTIANS in and around Jesus !!

    #3 , When Jesus returned and spoke to His disciples , Jesus had a physical body that could eat as in Luke 24:39-43 !!

    I will have to come back later !!

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurucam View Post
    We are saved today in the same manner as humans were saved all through time. People were and are saved all through time by living in the same manner as original Adam and Jesus the man.

    Original Adam and Jesus as a man on earth were both led into all their works by unconditionally obeying precisely what the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth has in mind for them to pray for, say and do as discerned within their own hearts or spirits. The manner is described in post 65 above.

    Hi , and then we are all saved the same way from Adam , through today ??

    How do you prove it ??

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi , and then we are all saved the same way from Adam , through today ??

    How do you prove it ??

    dan p
    Dear Dan,




    Within this box is the short answer. Read only this, if you are busy.


    Dan, I ask you: What do you mean? Isn't that statement correct?

    This is the total statement which I made (re. post # 66): "We are saved today in the same manner as humans were saved all through time. People were and are saved all through time by living in the same manner as original Adam and Jesus the man."

    Is it not true that the original Adam was a saved person. Then when Adam fell from grace sin came into the world. Then Adam started to sin and lost his salvation. Then Adam and all his descendants continue to sin and none of them were saved. All fall short of the glory of God. Therefore to be saved humans must be restored as original Adams. This is the only path.

    Adam live in a certain way. This way of life kept him under grace of God. This way of life kept him saved and in a heavenly life (i.e. in the garden of Eden). When Adam abandon that way of life he fell from grace of God. He was no longer saved and no longer in a heavenly life (i.e. he was evicted from the garden of Eden). Heaven on earth as provided by God, is called the Garden of Eden.

    To be saved and delivered means to get no sin for anything that one does. Also this means living in the garden of Eden. The garden of Eden describes a reality on earth both physical and non-physical where one lives in perfect fulfillment of all one's heart felt desires, some of which are carnal. This reality is created and sustained under grace of God. As humans we create and sustain this reality on earth when we are led into all of our works by unconditionally obeying precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for us to pray for, say and do as discerned within our individual hearts or spirit. We achieve this when we unconditionally obey the mind of this Spirit, even if we have to transgress all ideals and laws of society, morality and religiosity. However we have to uphold the laws of the land.

    God's will becomes done on earth and His garden of Eden is created and sustained on earth among each human only when each human is led into all his works by unconditionally obeying precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for him to pray for, say and do as discern within his individual hearts or spirit. Such a person must also obey the mind of this Spirit unconditionally, even if he has to transgress all moral, social and/or religious ideals and laws, including the Ten Commandments. Such people are in Christ. They are living like the original Adam They are the saved and delivered. However such people must uphold and obey the laws of the land.

    This box contain my precise answer.
    Those who seek more information can read the rest of my post.



    To be saved and delivered is to be a child of God. To be not saved and delivered is to be a child of the flesh.

    The original Adam was a child of God. After Adam fell from grace he became a child of the flesh and all his descendants were children of the flesh.

    Before Adam's fall all his action were under grace of God. This made him a child of God. After the fall of Adam he and his descendants were no longer under grace of God they were under grace of man. Put another way: This means that after the fall of Adam, Adam and all Adam's descendants were led by their carnal side. They were no longer led by God.

    To be led by one's carnal or physical side is to be a child of the flesh.

    To be led by God is to be under grace of God. This is to be a child of God. Children of God are led by the Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Jesus. God sent the Spirit of Jesus into the hearts of fallen Adams so that they might become adopted children of God.

    The Spirit of Jesus communicate with humans directly, privately and individually through our individual heart or spirit. This is achieved intuitively. Our intuitions are how we discern things through and within our own hearts or spirits. This is how we discern and achieve live, real time communion with the Spirit of Jesus within our own hearts or spirits.

    What the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for each of us to pray for, say and do is always in line with the will of God. Therefore this (living) Spirit of Jesus tell humans what (the living) God wants each one to do, in real time, all the time.

    Both God and the Spirit of Jesus are eternally living. They provide real time, direct and individualized guidance to people. Those who can access and be led led into all their works by this guidance become restored Adams. They are saved and delivered. The become children of God (like the original Adam and Jesus, the man).

    What the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for one to pray for, say and do is discerned within one's own heart. After Jesus' crucifixion and rise to heaven, God sent this Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Jesus into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God (i.e. so that they might become restored Adams).

    The lost of salvation came through sin. Sin came into the world when Adam fell from grace. After Adam fell from grace Adam and all his descendants sin and continue to sin and were therefore not saved.

    In order to be saved one must be without sin. Therefore one has to be restored to the status of the original Adam.

    After the fall of Adam there were no children of God on earth among him and his descendants. The fall of Adam meant that Adam moved from being a child of God to being a child of the flesh. After the fall of Adam everyone among them were children of the flesh. This happened because Adam stop being led into all his works by the Spirit of Truth as discerned within his own heart or spirit (this is how children of God are led). Instead he began being led by his own intellectually derive wisdom (this is how children of the flesh are led).

    It started when he (Adam) ignore his own intuitions of Truth as discerned from the Spirit of Truth within his own heart or spirit and instead listened to Eve and started acting out of his (Adam's) own thinking as done through his own brain (which is a part of his physical side). He moved from being led by God through the Spirit of Truth as discern through his spirit side, to being being led by himself through the faculties of his own discrimination as done through his own physical side (his physical brain). This is how everyone falls from grace of God and stays that way.


    After that long stretch of time after the fall of Adam, Jesus came to earth as a man who was the (only) restored original Adam among those who were all who were without Grace of God. Therefore after the fall of Adam, Jesus was the first child of God to be brought forth to earth, among them (fallen Adams).

    Jesus in a human physical body on earth was an example of a restored Adam. Jesus' physical body is 'seen' (i.e. physical) and therefore temporal. It is no more. Jesus' physical body has returned dust to dust. Jesus' physical body was created out of earthly material, under grace of Mary. Only Jesus Himself and His Spirit are from heaven. Things from earth stay on earth, they do not go to heaven. Only things from heaven go back to heaven. Jesus' physical body was a thing from and of, earth and it was left on earth. His physical body was temporal. Jesus' Spirit was and is eternal. Therefore both Jesus and His Spirit lives. Now (currently) Jesus serves God and humans through His Spirit. The Spirit of Jesus is how God and Jesus enables humans to become restored Adams. we are told in no uncertain terms to look not at (or at) things that are 'seen' (i.e. physical), like Jesus' physical body, for these are temporal. We are told to look at (or to) things that are 'not seen' (i.e. not physical), like Jesus in His Spirit, for these thing are eternal.

    This is achieved when each person is led into all his works by unconditionally obeying precisely what this Spirit of Jesus has in mind for him to pray for, say and do, as discerned intuitively within his own individual hearts or spirits.

    This is why God sent the Spirit of Jesus into the hearts of those under the law.

    However only those whose hearts or spirits are not waxed gross can go into their heart to have communion with Jesus in this way. 'The dead' describes people whose hearts are waxed gross. They are dead to their own heart or spirit. They cannot achieve communion with Jesus' Spirit within their own heart or spirit. Therefore 'the dead' cannot be and are not saved and/or delivered.

    The dead must receive the first fruit of the Holy Spirit. This first fruit is a heart that is no longer waxed gross. Only then can they seek the adoption as children of God. Only then can they search their heart to discern the Spirit of Jesus within their heart.
    Last edited by Gurucam; April 13th, 2013 at 08:00 AM.

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    As it was in the beginning (with Adam) so it is today and always, for ever and ever.

    Salvation and deliverance into the garden of Eden (i.e. heaven on earth) requires one to discern the Spirit of Jesus within one's own heart or spirit in real time, all the time and be led into all of one's works by precisely what this Spirit has in mind for one to pray for, say and do, in real time, all the time.

    Those who do this and live in this manner are saved and they create and sustain the garden of Eden on earth and live therein.

    The aim of God and Jesus is to restore some humans (the chosen few) from among those called to Christianity, to the status of the original Adam and to create and sustain the garden of Eden on earth (wherein which these few can and will live).

    And so be it.

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    [QUOTE=Gurucam;3418323][COLOR="Blue"][INDENT]

    Dear Dan,

    [box]

    Within this box is the short answer. Read only this, if you are busy.


    Dan, I ask you: What do you mean? Isn't that statement correct?

    This is the total statement which I made (re. post # 66): "We are saved today in the same manner as humans were saved all through time. People were and are saved all through time by living in the same manner as original Adam and Jesus the man."
    /QUOTE]


    Hi , and how did Adam manner save us today and Jesus the Man ??

    Does Heb 11:4-40 not say how that they were saved in the OT ??

    We are saved as Eph 2:8 reveals !!

    dan p

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    [QUOTE=DAN P;3421324]
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurucam View Post
    [COLOR="Blue"][INDENT]

    Dear Dan,

    [box]

    Within this box is the short answer. Read only this, if you are busy.


    Dan, I ask you: What do you mean? Isn't that statement correct?

    This is the total statement which I made (re. post # 66): "We are saved today in the same manner as humans were saved all through time. People were and are saved all through time by living in the same manner as original Adam and Jesus the man."
    /QUOTE]



    Hi , and Heb 11:4 , By Faith , Abel offered a more excellant sacrifice !

    By Faith Enoch , pleased God !

    By Faith , he built an Ark !

    By Faith , Abraham and Aara Obeyed God !

    By Faith , each Obeyed God , and you say that salvation is the same ??

    I do not thing so !!

    dan p


    Hi , and how did Adam manner save us today and Jesus the Man ??

    Does Heb 11:4-40 not say how that they were saved in the OT ??

    We are saved as Eph 2:8 reveals !!

    dan p

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Rom 10:9 , reads , " That IF you should Confess with you mouth ( the ) Lord Jesus , and should believe in your HEART , that God raised Him from ( the ) dead , you will be saved !!

    How simple is that , as it is not Water , Wafers and Wine , or Tongues , but BELIEF in your Heart >
    Romans 10:9-10 is NOT the gospel. It is what Israel failed to do. It is not how we are saved. Confession is not a requirement for our salvation. We are saved when we trust the Lord believing the gospel of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV), the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth.
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    Tambora (April 3rd, 2017)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcetc View Post

    It is my view that I am both grafted into the olive tree and baptized into the body of Christ, because I do not believe God is running two different programs.
    You cannot be both. Those who were graffed in to the olive tree could be cut off (Romans 11:20-22 KJV), but anyone who got/gets saved into the Body of Christ by trusting the Lord believing the word of truth (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) cannot be cut off. They are sealed unto the day of redemption. PTL!

    Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    Ephesians 4:30 KJV And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

    We are eternally secure!
    2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Paul defines the word of truth as the gospel of your salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV). Now, study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed by rightly dividing it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAN P View Post
    Hi , and to me it means we are not in the Old human Flesh , but we are " A New Man " as Eph 2;15 says ,because we are Indwelth with the Spirit of God !!


    DAN P
    Shalom.

    Interesting thoughts here. I believe that God can help you to be accurate according to scripture.

    Shalom.

    Jacob

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