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  1. #2446
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    The Saturday Morning Gazette



    Over in the Windows 10 thread STP was being adamant... does anyone remember Adam Ant? "Don't drink, don't smoke, what do you do?" Anyway...
    Quote Originally Posted by SaulToPaul View Post
    Sticking with Windows 95.
    Didn't think you could run that on a Commodore.

    Trad followed my recitation of the creed with...
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditio View Post
    You don't belong to an apostolic church.
    I understand the Catholic (and Church of Christ) claim to a more exclusive relationship, but in the words of Southern mothers for generations, the only charitable response to that sort of statement is, "Bless your heart."

    And after I supplied a link to explain the Presbyterian use of apostolic...
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditio View Post
    I believe I understand the distinction that the article makes between "apostolic succession" and "apostolicity," but I don't think that it really "gets at" my objection.
    It isn't aimed at it, because you can't be, aren't actually interested in being satisfied by anything short of a dogmatic capitulation to your church. But it does answer on what is meant by what we recite.

    What does "apostolic" mean in the Apostle's creed that you cited?
    As used and considered by Presbyterians? I just showed you. The rest approaches the sort of pointless squabbling I was talking to Pure about.

    Cruc picked another word to quibble, but ultimately sounded a surprisingly irenic note that felt like a fine place for an ecumenical parting...
    Quote Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
    ...You're using the word "catholic" in a decidedly ahistorical manner, but I get your basic meaning, and agree with it. That's why the Catholic Church considers properly-baptized Protestants to be fellow Christians.
    As they should. And why I consider my Catholic brothers and sisters to be exactly that, our differences notwithstanding.

    So, of course....
    Quote Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
    Yet this fails to address the Truth Question, that is, whether or not Jesus Christ founded a Church in which the fullness of the Christian faith resides, and which He desires for all believers to enter in faithfulness to Him... I would contend that Christ's one historic Church is the Catholic Church and, if true, must conclude that, for example, the Orthodox Presbyterian Church is not actually a "church" at all
    I don't feel similarly compelled though I know that many Protestants feel as strongly about it, if in a different fashion.

    ---after all, Christ founded only ONE Church (Mt. 16:18; cf. 1 Tim. 3:15)---but rather merely a man-made sect whose teachings carry no binding apostolic authority whatsoever, but can never be more than the corrupt traditions of men.
    I'd remind you that it is the Catholic church, not the Protestant line, that holds traditions as a rival to scriptural authority. On the founding point, supra and by way of reference to arguments we're both likely more than a little familiar with and are fruitless to pursue again.

    In one of the movie threads, Steko may or may not have been confused...
    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    I watched "Clowns From Outer Space" the other night.
    It was awful.
    Are you sure that you didn't just tune into C-Span again by accident?

    And...
    Quote Originally Posted by steko View Post
    Hmm, you may be right!
    Same thing happened to me. I thought I was watching "Monkey Planet" for about a week there.


    While back in Cruc's thread Trad was coming to grips with the fact that the meaning of apostolic when penned by Catholics prior to there being Protestants to differ wasn't going to actually control anything...
    Quote Originally Posted by Traditio View Post
    You're not a fan of constitutional constructionism, are you?
    I'm no fan of slavery and I've always thought women should be allowed to vote. You?

    While chrys came dragging his petard behind him...
    Quote Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
    see
    you are looking for something that isn't there
    A reasonable response?

    some of us bypass innuendo/I had only one point to make/this is where you talk about nfl
    nothing more
    No, everyone knows you can do that in a thread about the NFL. So you were actually engaging in attempting another point beneath the obvious one...there's a word for that somewhere.

    And thanks for playing.

    Responded to Ben's latest stab at Christendom...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Masada View Post
    Jamie, the only other option to deny that Jesus was not married is to acknowledge that he was a liar.
    No, that's not true, Ben.
    Spoiler

    I was curious about that point myself. I found some discussion on the point in the Jewish stack exchange that seems helpful.


    מי שחשקה נפשו בתורה תמיד ושגה בה כבן עזאי ונדבק בה כל ימיו ולא נשא אשה אין בידו עון והוא שלא יהיה יצרו מתגבר עליו, אבל אם היה יצרו מתגבר עליו חייב לישא אשה ואפילו היו לו בנים שמא יבוא לידי הרהור.‏ Rambam Hilchot Ishut 15:3

    The translation given was that a man who desired to study Torah and who can control his passions does no wrong, but else should marry.

    Another response:
    "In response to this part of your inquiry, I can answer you that, by the time of Jesus, the title "rabbi" and correlates were not exclusively used in a formal manner as it is today in judaism in reference to authorized clergy. On the contrary, it was sometimes used in reference to non-clergy and non-pharisaic individuals who had acquired a religious following as a means of attributing honor. Also, not all recognized pharisaic authorities (that time's rabbis) had the rabbi title attached to their names, as was, for example, the case for Hillel The Elder. Later rabbinc authorities also don't always have the title, as is the case for the Sage Shmuel, and many others.

    All this to say that: even if it could be proven that in rabbinic judaism historically one would have to be married to be a recognized rabbi, it does not follow from it that Jesus was married just because he was called a rabbi, since the title was not exclusively used in this formal manner by that time, being some times attributed to religious leaderships independent of formal training, recognition and, needless to say, any other requirement for official ordination as a rabbi."

    There was a good bit of interesting discussion like that and this:

    "It was certainly very common, but I can't find a requirement in the talmud (which was written in the few hundred years around your target timeframe), and I find one talmudic counter-example:

    On Kiddushin 71b R. Yehudah of Pumbeditha is asked why his son, R. Yitzchak, is not yet married (and is an adult).

    Kiddushin 82a does argue that an unmarried man cannot teach children, but this appears to be a concern about the appearance of impropriety, not a question about his ability or knowledge."


    But what is it to you? I think it's clear from your larger efforts that your aim is simply to discredit and cast doubt, which is true of all those who oppose Jesus. But you won't have any better luck with his reputation than people of your mindset had with his body.

    Do you remember what he said in Matthew 5:17-19? That he had not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it down to the letter.
    Barnes has it:
    "to complete the design; to fill up what was predicted; to accomplish what was intended in them. The word "fulfill" also means sometimes "to teach" or "to inculcate," Colossians 1:25. The law of Moses contained many sacrifices and rites which were designed to shadow forth the Messiah. See the notes at Hebrews 9. These were fulfilled when he came and offered himself a sacrifice to God..."


    Gills Exposition:
    "I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. By "the law" is meant the moral law, as appears from the whole discourse following: this he came not to "destroy", or loose men's obligations to, as a rule of walk and conversation, but "to fulfil" it; which he did doctrinally, by setting it forth fully, and giving the true sense and meaning of it; and practically, by yielding perfect obedience to all its commands, whereby he became "the end", the fulfilling end of it."

    And, mind you, that's a commandment upon the man to make the first move by proposing. If Jesus came to fulfill the Law down to the letter, do you prefer that he was a liar rather than a married man? I am serious, lady! What do you say?
    I say you're arguing God's word with God, but don't understand either.

    Defended Brady on a note while getting one in on Dan...
    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilo View Post
    You're right, that was a bit of troll on my part. His arm does look very good, and has for a while now. I remember watching a QB contest he participated in after his first SB, and he out-threw all the other competitors at the time. It shocked me to see him air out something like a 70-yard pass. At the time, his forte was the old "dink-n-dunk."
    More what he had to work with. When he had Moss he could put it downfield in a hurry. And the arm is, as Marino once noted, the last thing to go...though actually it's the mind, but Marino had no way to know that.

    Said happy-happy to rm...
    Quote Originally Posted by rocketman View Post
    Thank You all for the awesome birthday wishes, I love you all and was touched by your well wishes. This is a great group here at TOL, even the ones that I disagree with...
    You're welcome and all, but that's just not how you spell "especially". Must have had a hand spasm.

    Over in the Oscars thread...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ktoyou View Post
    Taken from IMDb...I feel the metascoire is less influenced by the arty factor than it is when it comes to Oscar winners. As well, the general vote from younger people seems to move even farther away from the arty factor.
    Here's the curious bit. Both Rotten Tomatoes and IMDb agree on the best five (the old limit for nominations). I'll list the top five with IMDb first and RT beside it:

    1. Spotlight/Brooklyn
    2. Fury Road/Spotlight
    3. Brooklyn/Fury Road
    4. Room/Room
    5. Creed/Creed

    Creed is fifth and unnominated. The Revenant, by contrast, fell to 10th on IMBd and 11th out of the twelve films on RT and manages a nod.


    And I'll put a bow on today's outing with this bit of repartee...
    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    Post #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
    Post #144 was already answered in Post #149.
    And they said debate was a dying art.

    Is it just me or has the whole thing turned into footnotes?

    Tomorrow? Knobs, Oscars and Whoopi...or do I repeat myself?
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







  2. #2447
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    moved.
    Last edited by Town Heretic; January 31st, 2016 at 03:47 PM.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







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    I knew I'd have a starring role in Town's most recent whine fest. So nice to see he's predictable....if nothing else.

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    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I knew I'd have a starring role in Town's most recent whine fest. So nice to see he's predictable....if nothing else.
    Like no one saw you arriving on its heels to illustrate how amused and unconcerned you are...and how devoted to the thread.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







  6. #2450
    Nobody is free when others are oppressed Rusha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
    Like no one saw you arriving on its heels to illustrate how amused and unconcerned you are...and how devoted to the thread.
    Like the gift that keeps on giving ... that the receivers either re-gift ... or give away at a garage sale.
    Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth. Albert Einstein






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    Quote Originally Posted by glorydaz View Post
    I knew I'd have a starring role in Town's most recent whine fest. So nice to see he's predictable....if nothing else.
    he just can't stop flirting with you

  8. #2452
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    moved.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







  9. #2453
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    Oh lookie lookie, Town is back on the job.

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    Over 500 post club Mark M's Avatar
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    What is this thread about?

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    TOL Subscriber glorydaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ok doser View Post
    he just can't stop flirting with you
    Yeah, like a grade schooler. He's just too shy to talk to me face to face.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    What is this thread about?
    Town Heretic and how he's the star of his own show.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    What is this thread about?
    It's like a rehash of recent posts and conversations, they are funny and enlightening.

  16. #2458
    Out of Order Town Heretic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    What is this thread about?
    This and that. A lot of it is windows into threads I've found interesting. Look back across it and you'll get the idea. It gets a few trolls. People who love to decry it but always seem to be paying attention to it. God knows why.

    And again...


    The Saturday Afternoon Gazette



    Talked about faith with Pure...
    Quote Originally Posted by PureX View Post
    We do not know that Jesus ever existed. We don't know this because we have no direct proof of it. And we have no direct proof because the evidence we have is all "second hand". There is no direct evidence.
    We have accounts from people who knew him and one from a fellow who met him on the road to Damascus. Now you can discount Paul as a liar if you like, but that's not a lack of first hand evidence, only an opinion on it and the author.

    And that idea is real, especially to you. But none of this really has much to do with the question of whether or not a man named Jesus of Nazareth lived in Judea 2000+ years ago.
    It does to me. And that's where facts and sums and their imprint live or fail to find purchase.

    So the Jesus in your mind, as he is based on those stories, is a legendary being. Like it or not, this is just a fact of reality. And "believing in" those legends with all your heart, mind and soul still doesn't change that.
    Believing was never meant to alter Christ.

    Noted a flaw in aCW's ointment...
    Quote Originally Posted by User Name View Post
    Let's be honest. You know that you aren't changing anyone's opinions on these matters. You aren't improving conditions in anyone's life by posting on this forum...
    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    If your were honest, you'd acknowledge that you don't speak for anyone other than yourself (by no means do you speak for everyone).
    Here's a better rebuttal. Out of all of those posts, thousands upon thousands, pick two or three where someone said, "You've changed my mind. I see it now and didn't before," or something to that effect. You've made a solid show of speaking to the popularity and response. Four threads, an enormous amount of postings.

    A couple of the sort I noted would be a fine way to at least suggest there's more to it than either user name or some of the rest of us currently see it...should be relatively easy.
    But he never did.


    And as to law and morality within the context of our law...
    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    As a student of civil law, you'd know that the law is a moral teaching.
    Our law is a secular instrument. Within the context of the actual law of the land there are any number of moral ills which are permissible...and men must answer to their own conscience in action and to God in the fullness of their existence.
    Quote Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior View Post
    I understand that either man or God is the "supreme authority" when it comes to "belief, opinion' and conduct".
    That's not where we disagree. We disagree where you agree with the Imam.

    Then responding a few times to my stalker brought out a bit of goofery in an old friend...
    Quote Originally Posted by zoo22 View Post
    Wow, folks sure do manage to change the subject around here. And look, it's TH and his special buddy rolling around together over TOL again! I can't figure out if their obsession is with one other or with themselves.
    Like being lectured on self restraint by a hedonist.

    We ought to have some sort of TOL pool, "how long can a thread last at TOL before TH and his infatuation crash through it like a couple of teenagers tickling one another."
    If you could work a "retards" in that you'd darn near be in line for a POTY.

    Sorry anyway, doofus.
    For anyone else curiosity on the point, again, just take a look at ok's threads and at mine and look for the other one of us in either. Else, I'll respond to spite when I feel like it, as will you.


    Before butting in a bit...
    Quote Originally Posted by PureX View Post
    ...Jesus' arising from the dead is not a supernatural feat that physically happened so much as it's a symbolic metaphor for what can happen for us all, spiritually, if we take the revelation of Christ into our hearts, minds, and souls.
    The devil is in the "so much as".

    "Incarnation of God"? Who here can claim to even know what that really means? Let alone claim to know that it's so? Let's say Jesus is the human manifestation of the Divine Spirit that we humans call "God"? Humans are not gods, and Jesus was human. So Jesus was not God.
    And that, friend Pure, is why no matter how you label yourself you will, so long as you hold that article of faith, be no more a Christian than I would be a race horse if I dubbed myself Secretariat.

    He was the human manifestation/exemplification of God's spirit. Let's try to be specific and leave out the magical thinking as best we can.
    If you hold the least glimmer of something willfully transcending the mechanism of our existence as true then the difference between you and a snake handling evangelical is on the order of the genetic distinction between a black man and a white man.

    ...God transcends our knowledge.
    To repeat something from a while ago, a man who can't fathom physics can still add and subtract and in that understand a mathematical truth, understand something real about it.

    Interesting conversation you two have going.
    Tomorrow? Who can say...maybe a laugh, a joke, a sentiment wasted.
    You aren't what you eat, but you're always what you swallow.

    Pro-Life







  17. #2459
    Over 500 post club Mark M's Avatar
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    I think I like this thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark M View Post
    What is this thread about?
    imagine a third grader who doesn't get enough praise, determinedly scotch taping all his work from school on the front of the refrigerator - pretty pictures, stories with the teachers big red A++ on them, artwork - all just waiting for others to exclaim over and recognize his genius (not to mention his desperate need for recognition and admiration)


    then, when people he's mad at come along and post their comments over his, it makes him mad and he takes his out and puts it back on top again and stamps his foot angrily


    and now, realize that this particular third grader has been doing this for years and years and years

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